"Dear Carleton"
#2451
Elitist
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
Jaytron, start reading first then posting your question here: https://www.bikeforums.net/forumdispl...-Training-Area
#2452
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 13,445
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4234 Post(s)
Liked 2,949 Times
in
1,808 Posts
Makes sense, haha I'm still out of shape, so I'm sure anything helps right now.
Will do. There are a ton of races once the season starts. I think Tuesday/Wed/Friday nights, with practice sessions Saturday/Sunday.
As a Sprinter I should concentrate on: dead lifts, squats, etc? Are there variations of this I can do at home, without weights? I've seen videos of trackies practicing their vertical leap?
When you say ride your road bike, is there anything you concentrate on in particular (since you said climbing doesn't really help me)? Or just ride?
Will do. There are a ton of races once the season starts. I think Tuesday/Wed/Friday nights, with practice sessions Saturday/Sunday.
As a Sprinter I should concentrate on: dead lifts, squats, etc? Are there variations of this I can do at home, without weights? I've seen videos of trackies practicing their vertical leap?
When you say ride your road bike, is there anything you concentrate on in particular (since you said climbing doesn't really help me)? Or just ride?
__________________
Bikes: 1996 Eddy Merckx Titanium EX, 1989/90 Colnago Super(issimo?) Piu(?),1990 Concorde Aquila(hit by car while riding), others in build queue "when I get the time"
Bikes: 1996 Eddy Merckx Titanium EX, 1989/90 Colnago Super(issimo?) Piu(?),
#2453
Not actually Tmonk
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 14,130
Bikes: road, track, mtb
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2635 Post(s)
Liked 3,149 Times
in
1,657 Posts
Absolutely nothing.
He can and will certainly see accelerated gains if he chooses to do this (periodize).
He'll also probably see gains if he continues to just "JRA" as well call it in the 33 (just ride around), atleast for a little while.
This is what I was trying to get at:
Also Jaytron, how do you know you're a sprinter?
Because you're bigger isn't a good answer
He can and will certainly see accelerated gains if he chooses to do this (periodize).
He'll also probably see gains if he continues to just "JRA" as well call it in the 33 (just ride around), atleast for a little while.
This is what I was trying to get at:
Because you're bigger isn't a good answer
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
#2454
Banana-tastic!
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,969
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
So that exercise cycle thingy is actually fairly clever and technical, to be perfectly honest. It doesn't change the fact that it's super goofy, and I would definitely never get one.
#2455
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 949
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#2456
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 949
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
https://bg.keirin.jp/en/depth/school/index.html
Seems like these guys climb for an hour a day at very high intensity.
"/notcarleton"
Seems like these guys climb for an hour a day at very high intensity.
"/notcarleton"
#2457
Brown Bear, Sqrl Hunter
Absolutely nothing.
He can and will certainly see accelerated gains if he chooses to do this (periodize).
He'll also probably see gains if he continues to just "JRA" as well call it in the 33 (just ride around), atleast for a little while.
This is what I was trying to get at:
Also Jaytron, how do you know you're a sprinter?
Because you're bigger isn't a good answer
He can and will certainly see accelerated gains if he chooses to do this (periodize).
He'll also probably see gains if he continues to just "JRA" as well call it in the 33 (just ride around), atleast for a little while.
This is what I was trying to get at:
Also Jaytron, how do you know you're a sprinter?
Because you're bigger isn't a good answer
#2458
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Providence, RI
Posts: 599
Bikes: Civilian Le Roi Le Veut, Kazane Track, Ciocc Designer '84, Serotta Colorado AL 25th anniversary, '85 Guerciotti Pista, '84 Trek 660, Volume Credence
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Just curious, but how do you think a professional keirin racer would do against a professional track racer like awang or chris hoy? i'm pretty sure the keirin racer would not really stand a chance, but what if he was using a newer, stiffer frame than the steel njs frames? would it make a differnece?
#2459
Elitist
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
Just curious, but how do you think a professional keirin racer would do against a professional track racer like awang or chris hoy? i'm pretty sure the keirin racer would not really stand a chance, but what if he was using a newer, stiffer frame than the steel njs frames? would it make a differnece?
Like bringing a knife to a laser cat fight.
#2462
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Brownsville, TX
Posts: 2,174
Bikes: Surly CC
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#2463
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 949
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Anyone hear the band "Das racist"?
Those keirin riders are by no means slow.
Chris Hoy is just... insanely, insanely fast and strong, and seemingly unstoppable right now.
Also, I would never discredit climbing as a viable training method to increase strength. At high intensity it will most certainly increase strength. If anyone is concerned about climbing developing different muscles, just find a lower grade and mash up it repeatedly.
Those keirin riders are by no means slow.
Chris Hoy is just... insanely, insanely fast and strong, and seemingly unstoppable right now.
Also, I would never discredit climbing as a viable training method to increase strength. At high intensity it will most certainly increase strength. If anyone is concerned about climbing developing different muscles, just find a lower grade and mash up it repeatedly.
#2464
Elitist
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
I can safely say that ANY sprinter from a UCI World Cup event can easily qualify and race on the Keirin circuit with no problem. The other way around is not true.
YES, you *may* hear hills mentioned in some track training programs. But, it is never the core of the program. It's simply a supplemental exercise...like the bench press or lunges.
#2465
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 949
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
There is Koichi Nakano though, who took gold 10 years in a row, however many consider his racing style to be dishonorable.
#2466
Elitist
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
+1 Knowledge bombs!
I think if you can do a 1:15 kilo then you definitely qualify for Keirin school. They actually make a ton of money - you should go for it Carleton The whole thing is centered around gambling.
There is Koichi Nakano though, who took gold 10 years in a row, however many consider his racing style to be dishonorable.
I think if you can do a 1:15 kilo then you definitely qualify for Keirin school. They actually make a ton of money - you should go for it Carleton The whole thing is centered around gambling.
There is Koichi Nakano though, who took gold 10 years in a row, however many consider his racing style to be dishonorable.
Koichi Nakano won when sprinting was much much different than it is now. 1) it was slower and 2) the gears were much lower. In those days, international professional sprinters raced on 90-96 gear inches. Now the gears are well over 100 gear inches...using similar cadences.
I'm not saying that a Japanese rider can't compete in the world ranks. In the 2012 World Championships Seiichiro Nakagawa finished 11th in sprints and in the Keirin Kazunari Watanabe finished 5th and Yudai Nitta finished 12th.
My point is that the JKA Keirin riders, in general, are not on the world level in terms of sprinting. It's simply a different style of racing.
Last edited by carleton; 04-15-12 at 04:01 AM.
#2467
pro in someone's theory
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 3,236
Bikes: FTP
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 72 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
I always thought that keirin was like sumo, that there were huge cultural barriers for entry. Anyway is a 1:15 kilo a reasonable place to start to see if you are competitive? I've been timing myself on a mile time trial l and I thought I was pretty slow because I can't get it under 2:02. I thought that must be pretty slow because Major Taylor's was 1:19 but maybe that was paced. If a 1:15 kilo is competitive then maybe I'm not doing too bad.
#2468
Elitist
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
I always thought that keirin was like sumo, that there were huge cultural barriers for entry. Anyway is a 1:15 kilo a reasonable place to start to see if you are competitive? I've been timing myself on a mile time trial l and I thought I was pretty slow because I can't get it under 2:02. I thought that must be pretty slow because Major Taylor's was 1:19 but maybe that was paced. If a 1:15 kilo is competitive then maybe I'm not doing too bad.
Yes, JKA Keirin is very difficult to enter for various reasons. One can't just meet the time standard then sign up. It's much deeper than that like you mention.
#2469
pro in someone's theory
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 3,236
Bikes: FTP
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 72 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
I actually didn't want to know if 1:15 was competitive, in the "could this time mean you might be a world champion" sense but more in the "could this time mean you wouldn't necessarily come in last at a local event" sense.
#2470
Elitist
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
At the local level, 1:15 would be good. 1:10 would be regional. 1:05 would be (US) national. 1:02 would be international. 1:00 would be Olympic (meaning international every 4 years. Sort of a big deal.)
#2471
We win all charity rides
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Central Michigan University/ GR, MI
Posts: 3,369
Bikes: BMX, fixed gear
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Carleton, would increasing muscle strength necessarily increase endurance for longer rides? Or would it be smarter to increase endurance at a lower weight/more reps before trying to work strength?
#2472
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I saw that you are now riding a Dolan and I would like your opinion on it, not sure if you stated it before (if so just a link to it will be fine). Do you think a Seta would be sturdy enough for the road with some open pros or would the frame wear very quickly (within a year) I know you don't own a seta but based on your knowledge of your current steed.
#2473
Elitist
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
Unfortunately, I don't have any advice as to what type of weight training you should do. Endurance riding is not my thing.
I saw that you are now riding a Dolan and I would like your opinion on it, not sure if you stated it before (if so just a link to it will be fine). Do you think a Seta would be sturdy enough for the road with some open pros or would the frame wear very quickly (within a year) I know you don't own a seta but based on your knowledge of your current steed.
Yeah, the Seta will be fine for street use.
#2474
We win all charity rides
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Central Michigan University/ GR, MI
Posts: 3,369
Bikes: BMX, fixed gear
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#2475
Elitist
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
But, if you are worried about some sort of inbalance, don't. If you are doing standard exercises that use the entire leg, like the back squat, front squat, leg press, or dead lift, you are also working your calf. It is stabilizing you the whole time and getting stronger along with the rest of your leg.