bitingduck

And also former world champion in the Madison (with Cavendish), and multiple time world champion and olympic champion in the Individual Pursuit.

bitingduck

**** happens. The italian saw it coming from far off, and dealt with it. At one of the world cups here in LA it seemed like the Danes needed to crash to get motivated-- their team pursuit managed to crash and then medal. FWIW, it seems like in most P/1/2 omniums I get solid contact from another rider at least once (rarely like in the video though). Highly not recommended at lower levels of racing.

sstang13

Those were the words I was looking for. I know there's not going to be any boring races with nothing going on, I mean come on, it's track racing.. but what I mean is that even though there's a lot going on all the time, there's still a pack that you can regroup yourself and rest a bit while all the other hammerheads hammer away. But it's not like it's a 2 lap race where in a split second decision you go from 2km/h to 60km/h. I guess this is the road cyclist in me talking. On a side note, is a scratch race literally just a crit on a track (first one across the finish line wins)? If so, why are people trying to lap the field? Thanks.

Ps. Ya I do skate, but havn't in the past 2 years because there's not a d**m snowflake on the ground here! and there hasn't been in 2 years.

Well than he's just a God of cycling.

True, like seen by the Dane in the scratch race as well. Those Danes eh?

bitingduck

Because it's only somewhere between 138 and 333 meters you have to gain and then you get to hide in the pack again, but one lap ahead of everyone else. It's even less than that if the field is strung out-- if you attack from near the front, and the field is strung out over 50 meters on a 250 m track, you only need to get 200 m before you're a lap up. If your timing is good you can work a lot of things to your advantage to make gaining the lap minimally painful (haha...).

Another reason is if you're a strong enduro in a race with a guy like Carleton, he's probably got you hands down in a field sprint, even if you have better tactics, but he's probably not happy taking a lap by himself. If you're a lap up he's sprinting for second.

go inline or short track...

sstang13

That makes a lot of sense. And it brings even more exciting action on the track Is enduro short for endurance?

And ahh I'll just stick to the soccer 1 month per year, gym which I should probably get into soon.. and my cycling coach's training on training peaks which is 4 days/week. Obviously more intended towards road cycling because that's what I do, but hopefully I can show myself and him that I've got potential talent on the track, it'll be a let down learning that I don't have any sort of future on the track or even the road. Hopefully all goes well (crossed fingers).

bigfred 

Interesting that the OP chose Wiggins as his example of a "road cyclist". The man has seven olympic track medals. All in endurance based events like pursuiting and madison. Taylor Phinney would be another great example of cross over abilities.

sstang13

Only because he's the most recent winner and well I just don't know much about anyone professional rider in depth let alone their past. Other than the bit of Tyler Hamilton's life that I remembered from his book. I know he never mentioned anything about track there.

bitingduck

Yeah. When I was racing a lot I could race like a sprinter in the Masters fields, but had to race like an endurance rider in the 1/2 fields-- there was no way I could match the top speed of the really fast guys. But sometimes I could sneak away. One time when I was promoting and not racing, I watched a group of about 7 or 8 get away in a scratch race with Jimmy Watkins in it. Jimmy didn't make the break. The guys in the break had a collective lobotomy or something, and couldn't keep it together to take the lap (they were plenty strong enough). So they got reabsorbed by the pack and Jimmy won the field sprint (obviously).

sstang13

That's awesome, do you still race at all?

Kayce

Track racing is not something to be done for "a future". There are about 20 people in the world that are pro track racers. 15 are Japanese, the rest are in the UK.

bitingduck

I haven't raced in about a year and a half (except for a crazy ultra-relay), but still try to get out for madison practice and intervals. Too much real life lately...

Baby Puke

Safety addendum: In many cases it is a great idea checking over your right shoulder before moving up track. In fact, in all but ONE situation I think it's pretty much mandatory. If you are on the last lap of any kind of mass start race, look where you are going, don't worry about who's behind you. [Obviously, this also holds for any kind of time trial with multiple riders like team sprints or pursuits] If you are in a warm-up pace line, or finished taking a pull in a scratch or points race, yes, look behind your right shoulder before you move up. In the warm-up scenario, there could be a faster moving pace line coming over, or a rider doing a fast effort approaching. In the race situation, there could be riders attacking from above. Yes, Carleton is right that the approaching rider must warn you, but it's in the best interest of all on a track that all parties are aware of what's going on on all sides.

If you ever do a big national-level race, you'll immediately understand the need for this. At these races it can get incredibly crowded and chaotic, with multiple pace lines moving at different speeds, multiple single riders starting and finishing hard efforts all over the place-- frankly, it's a mess. Get good at looking behind you over and under both shoulders. Yes, this stuff is most useful for match sprinting in a race situation, but being good at seeing all sides around you while remaining stable is a skill you'll see experienced track riders have mastered.

Baby Puke

Actually Kayce, there are a couple thousand pro track racers in Japan. But unless you're Japanese, your statement basically holds true.

Dalai

We are always recommended to check over the right shoulder then right elbow flick to signal you are swinging up.

Plus through your legs... After the initial jump I'll look through my legs to see if I have a gap or someone on my wheel. If no one within immediate in sight I'll hammer another half lap or more before taking a quick look under an armpit and decide if ithe attack is worth continuing with/someone is bridging across and will help. Otherwise best to ease up and save my matches for later...

sstang13

How can you even be pro if there are only 19 others to race against at your level? That sucks though, but either way, nationals worlds and olympics is good enough for me! And if you were to make it to the olympics you would probably get endorsments, especially in the US.

Oh wow, madison is an odd race.. Still nice that you can get out and ride though!

That's a good point. Mine aswell get into the habit, if anything, it's more safer than dangerous. Plus if you think of it like a bad/good driver on the road (which there are WAY to many bad ones), obviously you won't drive in someones blind spot and stay there on a highway, but at the same time, the front driver still has to put on their signal and check their mirrors before switching lanes.

Kayce

If your goal is to become a professional bike racer switch over to road racing and move to California, Colorado, or Southern/ Western Europe.

bitingduck

And still plan to have an hourly wage less than working at 7-11.

bigfred 

Not sure how it would workout into an hourly wage if you were to take overtime and travel time into account. But, 2009 had the average Protour rider on about 190,000 euro and the average continental rider on about a third of that. Not bad work for the hundred+ guys in the world who've got it.

sstang13

I already do road race, did once this September and am training for the 2013 season! But now that I'm introduced first hand to the velodrome, it looks fun to, to do some good racing here.

Plus, even if you get paid 30 thousand dolllars a year, it doesn't really matter, you're travelling half the time, and you get your life fed to you (bikes, cloths, food, hotels to stay in, travel..etc) by sponsers and your team. Especially if you do well like Cavendish who gets paid 100's of thousands of dollars by coming first in sprints.

carleton

Oh man, I remember the days when 30K, constant travel, different cities, and hotels sounded like a good thing. Now if a job offer had just one of those things I'd pass on it.

Just race for fun, man. It's easier that way. When you have to do it, it's no fun anymore.

Find a job that pays enough for you to sponsor yourself so that you can buy whatever bikes and clothes you want and you can travel and race whatever races you want. Trust me. That's the way to go.

He who pays the piper, picks the tune. A sponsor is a boss.

Nagrom_

I've never heard that one. That's a line to remember.

sstang13

I know what you mean, that would suck because you wouldn't be able to have a family or even see your own, but I'm also working on my school grades (I'm 16y.o in grade 11 btw) and planning on going to university. But at the same time I don't want to regret my chances of racing big. Even if I rode just one stage of the Giro, that would be a dream come true. Or even smaller, yet still huge races like the paris-roubaix.

And plus I already have a coach so he's going to help me through all the training stuff, all I have to do is follow his 4 days/week plan. I'll see how my junior years go (U19). Based on that I'll see what my chances are. And if they're crap, than I still have a solid 6 years of prime racing ahead of me and many many more after that.

One thing I'm planning on doing is going to Italy after I gradute high school in 2014 and basically just backpack the country enjoying everything I can, and dedicating a few hours of every day riding a new route/mountain, maybe even a stage of the Giro. But I'll get to that when I do

Dalai

Glad you are keeping up with your studies. As you just don't know how long your cycling career will last if you do make it...

I had a professional sports career (not cycling) with far less money than cycling. Sponsorship consisted of gear and some travel expenses for competitions. So I'm glad I followed through and completed my uni degree, as after 5 years I had to retire due to reoccuring injuries. Although during those years I missed adding to my superannuation, I now have a decent paying job which allows me to travel and ride overseas on holiday.

Riding in Italy is amazing. Snuck in a couple of days this year riding around Bormio.

Both sides of the Stelvio https://climbinglama.blogspot.com.au/...lvio-18th.html
Mortirolo and Gavia https://climbinglama.blogspot.com.au/...avia-19th.html

Rode 4 weeks in the French Alps 2011 (also in the blog) plus will be in the States this September (CA, CO and AZ) for three weeks hitting as many of the climbs there as possible.

Having also gone down this route of aiming high and not thinking later in life about what could have been and regretting you didn't have a go, I really do wish you all the best in following your dreams!

sstang13

I could get 80's in all of my classes, but it's honestly next to impossible for me to study or even do my homework.. I honestly try but can't.

That's nice, congratulations on becoming a pro at what you did and getting sponsered!

I went to Italy on a vacation in June this summer, and there is just to much to see and do! Every day I saw no less than ~100 cyclists, even some teams going up the mounatins together. Once I saw sommeone pulling his team up a mountain, suffering, so I started cheering out the window of our car, and it was funny to see a big smile go on his face and he somewhat attacked and made his whole team up the tempo to stay with him. That must have been incredible on the Stelvio, especially going through all of those tunnels. And the Alps... there would be no words to describe I imagine. You should go hit Vancouver in BC, that's got some beautiful scenary. I went downhill there but still, beautiful.

Thanks a lot, I'd rather try and have my dreams crushed 100 times before I let the oppourtunities pass and regret it for my whole life... ok maybe not 100 times

bitingduck

Domestic pros in the US start at around $12K/year, and if they're lucky can eventually get a ride on a continental team in europe. And considering the length of most cycling careers, even most of the guys who get to the ProTour level don't end up with a lot in the bank. A lot of the smarter ones probably end up doing much better as coaches or DS's later than they ever did as riders.