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Not enough rest?

Old 11-26-13, 11:15 PM
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Not enough rest?

So I've been training on my rollers for 2mos now and just earlier I couldn't finish my normal interval workout. I tried forcing myself but just wasn't going to happen and decided to quit half way through. I've worked 12hrs shift the last 2days and I normally get 4-5hrs of sleep every weeknights, I work til about 1/2am and have to get up by 8am to get my son ready for school then the little guy is up by then and I have to be up with him. Been at it for 3mos now with the work and kids schedule and finally feel like I'm totally burnt out. I use Thursday as my off day and that means no riding at all or push-up workout. I do interval workout 3days a week and easy/base building 3days a week and I don't do interval days back to back. So is this a sign of not enough sleep/rest?
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Old 11-27-13, 12:34 AM
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sounds like a heavy load.

train hard but rest harder.
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Old 11-27-13, 12:49 AM
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Dude, interval work out three days a week? Textbook recipe for burn out. You need a lot of rest, especially with that work and family schedule. Unfortunately, when we get older and have more responsibilities, we just can't train that much. Try higher quality/intensity workouts that are shorter in duration. What kind of events do you do?
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Old 11-27-13, 02:07 AM
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If you've been going two months, six days a week, it's a good bet you need a bit of rest. Take a week to completely lay off the interval work. Do just the three days of base that week. Then do an interval set the following week and see where you are. If you are still not riding strong, take another week off intervals.

Training stresses the body and flips the switches to make the physiological adaptations that make you stronger/faster. But it's when you rest that these changes actually take place. Your body needs quite a bit of energy to make those adaptive changes happen; if all your energy goes into life and training, you never have excess energy to allow your body to make those changes. If you only train and never rest, you'll never reach your potential, you'll just plateau.
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Old 11-27-13, 10:32 AM
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this is solid advice:
Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
If you've been going two months, six days a week, it's a good bet you need a bit of rest. Take a week to completely lay off the interval work. Do just the three days of base that week. Then do an interval set the following week and see where you are. If you are still not riding strong, take another week off intervals.
its hard to know what the issue is without knowing more about the specifics of your training and diet.
i would be surprised if roller work put you into a true state of Over-Trained. I think following Brian's advice will pull you out of the hole.

as a father of 2, with a full time job that goes late into the evening and a full training load- i can tell you that nutrition and sleep are key.. try adding in a nap after getting your boy off to school. huge benefits from napping for athletes
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Old 11-27-13, 11:00 AM
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Thanks for the solid advices guys, I'm still a noob a cycling and still trying to figure out which training regime works best for me. I'm training for road TT's and track racing next year and would like to have a good start at it.
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Old 11-27-13, 11:21 AM
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4-5 hours of sleep a night and 3 interval sessions a week? Good lord.

You're probably WAY overtrained. Haven't had any rest weeks either? :\
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Old 11-27-13, 12:13 PM
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I agree with what the guys wrote above.

I have a friend who is a 40 year old masters racer. He used to train over 20 hours/week as a sprinter (lifting, road rides, ergo workouts, etc...) He had good results. Then he had a kid. Training time was cut significantly. His results were similarly good. He remarked to me that he didn't need as much training volume as he (and his coach) thought.

Also, understand that your competitors also have jobs, kids, lives, etc... So they can't train like a care-free 22 year old "full-time athlete", either. So, the playing field is sort of level.

Don't feel guilty about backing-off or missing workouts. We ain't gettin' paid for this

Working out while tired actually does more harm than good. You probably won't get what you need out of the current workout and you will definitely hurt your recovery and the next workout. So, if the workout feels really bad, then just quit and call it a day and move on.

Also, workouts feeling abnormally bad may also be an early sign if the cold/flu. I've heard athletes say that they know when they are about to get sick a day or two before it hits because they are tired during their workouts.
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Old 11-27-13, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by carleton
I agree with what the guys wrote above.

I have a friend who is a 40 year old masters racer. He used to train over 20 hours/week as a sprinter (lifting, road rides, ergo workouts, etc...) He had good results. Then he had a kid. Training time was cut significantly. His results were similarly good. He remarked to me that he didn't need as much training volume as he (and his coach) thought.

Also, understand that your competitors also have jobs, kids, lives, etc... So they can't train like a care-free 22 year old "full-time athlete", either. So, the playing field is sort of level.

Don't feel guilty about backing-off or missing workouts. We ain't gettin' paid for this

Working out while tired actually does more harm than good. You probably won't get what you need out of the current workout and you will definitely hurt your recovery and the next workout. So, if the workout feels really bad, then just quit and call it a day and move on.

Also, workouts feeling abnormally bad may also be an early sign if the cold/flu. I've heard athletes say that they know when they are about to get sick a day or two before it hits because they are tired during their workouts.
Carleton, thanks for reminding me that I'm still a human being lol. So how often should I do interval workout?
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Old 11-27-13, 12:29 PM
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I'd say it depends on what type of intervals first of all. Are these power intervals, or cadence interval drills?
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Old 11-27-13, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaytron
I'd say it depends on what type of intervals first of all. Are these power intervals, or cadence interval drills?
Jaytron, I'm doing cadence intervals.
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Old 11-27-13, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by sbs z31
Carleton, thanks for reminding me that I'm still a human being lol. So how often should I do interval workout?
Originally Posted by Jaytron
I'd say it depends on what type of intervals first of all. Are these power intervals, or cadence interval drills?
+1

It really depends on:

- How far out from your season you are
- What type of racing you intend to do

It's REALLY hard to prescribe a program via a message board. In the past, as a "sprinter" (aka: fat guy on a bike), I have only done 1 or 2 high-intensity interval sessions per week.
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Old 11-27-13, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by carleton
+1

It really depends on:

- How far out from your season you are
- What type of racing you intend to do

It's REALLY hard to prescribe a program via a message board. In the past, as a "sprinter" (aka: fat guy on a bike), I have only done 1 or 2 high-intensity interval sessions per week.
This.

Also OP, how long are the efforts in your intervals that you're doing? What gi are they done in?
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Old 11-27-13, 01:27 PM
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I do 20min warm up and then 10x1min(105-110rpm cadences) with 1min recovery between each efforts, my gearing is 46/17 so I'm at about a 71gi.
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Old 11-27-13, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by sbs z31
I do 20min warm up and then 10x1min(105-110rpm cadences) with 1min recovery between each efforts, my gearing is 46/17 so I'm at about a 71gi.
My experience with roller work leads me to believe that the effort portion of an interval like that is likely around 125-150watts.. Assuming a 3" drum- would be less on a 4.5"
I don't think there is any real danger of a true Over Train.

Now that's not to say you shouldn't take a rest week and evaluate your you entire program from training to rest to nutrition..
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Old 11-27-13, 02:23 PM
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1min at fairly low rpm at a low gear.. I agree with Quinn, that's not really that hard.

Your sleep schedule probably is a bigger factor here. IMO

That being said... 1min is a long interval.. and 10 is a ton of sets. I guess we should've more or less asked for your level of perceived effort in these intervals as well. Are you trying to be a sprinter or an enduro?
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Old 11-27-13, 03:05 PM
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Not sure what I want to do in track racing yet because I haven't done it yet but I really want to improve my avs for the local road TT. I do feel that I have to put in quite a bit of effort to keep in that cadence zone when doing my intervals but maybe I'm still new at racing and just not use to it yet? Either way I really appreciate everyone's advice and tips!
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Old 11-27-13, 03:19 PM
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It's kinda hard to recommend any training plan without really knowing what you want to specialize in

But it sounds like overall fitness may be a bit lacking? *shrugs* #basemiles
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Old 11-27-13, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by sbs z31
So I've been training on my rollers for 2mos now and just earlier I couldn't finish my normal interval workout. I tried forcing myself but just wasn't going to happen and decided to quit half way through. I've worked 12hrs shift the last 2days and I normally get 4-5hrs of sleep every weeknights, I work til about 1/2am and have to get up by 8am to get my son ready for school then the little guy is up by then and I have to be up with him. Been at it for 3mos now with the work and kids schedule and finally feel like I'm totally burnt out. I use Thursday as my off day and that means no riding at all or push-up workout. I do interval workout 3days a week and easy/base building 3days a week and I don't do interval days back to back. So is this a sign of not enough sleep/rest?
Get. More. Sleep.

Even if it is in the form of a nap.
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Old 11-27-13, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by goldfinch
Get. More. Sleep.

Even if it is in the form of a nap.
I agree, sleep is HUGE.

I'm finding since actually adopting a real training, 8 hours of sleep is a minimum for me.
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Old 11-27-13, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaytron
I agree, sleep is HUGE.

I'm finding since actually adopting a real training, 8 hours of sleep is a minimum for me.
I wish I could sleep 8 hours.

I logged my sleeping for months and consistently averaged 5.5 hours/night.

I've done lots of reading about sleep.

As Goldfinch mentions, NAP. A 20 minute nap can be completely invigorating. Also, sleep cycles are roughly 90 minutes. If you attempt to wake in the deep part of the cycle (say 45 mins in), you will feel totally groggy (like being drugged). But, if you wake at around 90 minutes, you'll hop right up. The snooze button sorta revolves around this concept. Many people basically hit snooze until the alarm rings at the right time in their cycle and they actually wake up.

There are alarm clocks that monitor your sleep and will wake you when it senses that you are in the lightest phase of sleep and will wake easily.

So, yeah. Nap for 20 or 90 minutes and you'll feel like a champ. And for a real power nap, drink coffee/espresso before a 20 minute nap. Caffeine takes around 30-40 minutes to affect the body. You can lay down, sleep for 20, then wake as the caffeine is taking effect and wake super energized. It works. I've done it.

/nerding
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Old 11-27-13, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by carleton
I wish I could sleep 8 hours.

I logged my sleeping for months and consistently averaged 5.5 hours/night.

I've done lots of reading about sleep.

As Goldfinch mentions, NAP. A 20 minute nap can be completely invigorating. Also, sleep cycles are roughly 90 minutes. If you attempt to wake in the deep part of the cycle (say 45 mins in), you will feel totally groggy (like being drugged). But, if you wake at around 90 minutes, you'll hop right up. The snooze button sorta revolves around this concept. Many people basically hit snooze until the alarm rings at the right time in their cycle and they actually wake up.

There are alarm clocks that monitor your sleep and will wake you when it senses that you are in the lightest phase of sleep and will wake easily.

So, yeah. Nap for 20 or 90 minutes and you'll feel like a champ. And for a real power nap, drink coffee/espresso before a 20 minute nap. Caffeine takes around 30-40 minutes to affect the body. You can lay down, sleep for 20, then wake as the caffeine is taking effect and wake super energized. It works. I've done it.

/nerding
TIL that's a pretty crazy power nap idea.

I guess I'm spoiled. I kinda just get to bed at around the same time (10pm) and I'm typically up by 6am. I don't use alarms.
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Old 11-27-13, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by carleton
And for a real power nap, drink coffee/espresso before a 20 minute nap. Caffeine takes around 30-40 minutes to affect the body. You can lay down, sleep for 20, then wake as the caffeine is taking effect and wake super energized. It works. I've done it.

/nerding
brilliant!

im ranking this one up there with "Star Trek intervals" as the best of 2013!!
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Old 11-27-13, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaytron
TIL that's a pretty crazy power nap idea.

I guess I'm spoiled. I kinda just get to bed at around the same time (10pm) and I'm typically up by 6am. I don't use alarms.
Yea, crazy, but it works and works amazingly well. First hand experience here.

And f- you. Just f- you and all you morning people for forcing us night people to wake up early just to exist in society.

If it were up to me, the everyone's work day would start at 1:00pm and end at 8 and I'd still be able to sit down for a cup of coffee after work.
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Old 11-27-13, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Quinn8it
brilliant!

im ranking this one up there with "Star Trek intervals" as the best of 2013!!
I wish that I had learned of it much sooner in life.


https://lifehacker.com/306029/reboot-...a-caffeine-nap

Scientists say that a successful midday nap depends on two things: timing and (no kidding) caffeine consumption. Experiments performed at Loughborough University in the UK showed that the sleep-deprived need only a cup of coffee and 15 minutes of shut-eye to feel amazingly refreshed.
1. Right before you crash, down a cup of java. The caffeine has to travel through your gastro-intestinal tract, giving you time to nap before it kicks in.

2. Close your eyes and relax. Even if you only doze, you'll get what's known as effective microsleep, or momentary lapses of wakefulness.

3. Limit your nap to 15 minutes. A half hour can lead to sleep inertia, or the spinning down of the brain's prefrontal cortex, which handles functions like judgment. This gray matter can take 30 minutes to reboot.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_nap#The_caffeine_nap

A caffeine nap is a short nap that is preceded by the intake of caffeine. In a driving simulator and a series of studies, Horne and Reyner investigated the effects of cold air, radio, a break with no nap, a nap, caffeine pill vs. placebo and a short nap preceded by caffeine on mildly sleep-deprived subjects. The last mentioned was by far the most effective in reducing driving "incidents" and subjective sleepiness. Caffeine in coffee takes up to half an hour to have an alerting effect, hence "a short (<15min) nap will not be compromised if it is taken immediately after the coffee.
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