Go Back  Bike Forums > The Racer's Forum > Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area
Reload this Page >

Ask your small, random, track-related questions here

Notices
Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area Looking to enter into the realm of track racing? Want to share your experiences and tactics for riding on a velodrome? The Track Cycling forums is for you! Come in and discuss training/racing, equipment, and current track cycling events.

Ask your small, random, track-related questions here

Old 11-10-15, 12:55 PM
  #2801  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Far Away
Posts: 81
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by carleton
When you start losing by fractions of a second, then consider investing in aero wheels.

If you are losing by full seconds, the wheels won't buy you much.

All of the things mentioned on this list before a front wheel will make you faster than a front wheel.

https://www.bikeforums.net/track-cycl...l#post14849124
Thanks Carelton, this isn't my first season however, and ,without giving myself away, I (along with team mates) did win an extremely important national event by all of one second, but I take your point. Maybe I'll get one in time for next year's World Masters.
Murakami is offline  
Old 11-10-15, 12:59 PM
  #2802  
aka mattio
 
queerpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,586

Bikes: yes

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 344 Post(s)
Liked 58 Times in 35 Posts
Originally Posted by Murakami
Thanks Carelton, this isn't my first season however, and ,without giving myself away, I (along with team mates) did win an extremely important national event by all of one second, but I take your point. Maybe I'll get one in time for next year's World Masters.
Finding another four-spoke might not be necessary. A more ordinary wheel with a deep-section carbon tubular rim will get you nearly as much aerodynamic benefit.
queerpunk is offline  
Old 11-10-15, 01:04 PM
  #2803  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Far Away
Posts: 81
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by queerpunk
Finding another four-spoke might not be necessary. A more ordinary wheel with a deep-section carbon tubular rim will get you nearly as much aerodynamic benefit.
Thanks. I'll keep an eye out.
Murakami is offline  
Old 11-10-15, 04:40 PM
  #2804  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: LI, NY
Posts: 485

Bikes: A little of each

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts
If you're in some real tight racing, a 3/4/5 spoke wheel also gives you just a little more wiggle room until a rider or their bike hits your spokes. I'd guess it's also a little more resilient if you make contact.

As for your corima, I'm surprised it's not repairable. Maybe ask a few carbon repair guys if they'd be willing to tackle it. It doesn't have to handle the torque of a rear wheel, and depending on who you ask, the lateral force shouldn't be very high, so it would seem as long as you can keep the wheel true, almost any hack job of re-epoxying the hub would work.

That's a solid straight-from-the-internet-without-any-knowledge guess, though.
MarkWW is offline  
Old 11-10-15, 04:51 PM
  #2805  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,163
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked 8 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by queerpunk
Finding another four-spoke might not be necessary. A more ordinary wheel with a deep-section carbon tubular rim will get you nearly as much aerodynamic benefit.
Deep carbon rim spoked wheel with a bolt on skewer is fine and will be just as aero.
Dalai is offline  
Old 11-10-15, 04:54 PM
  #2806  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,163
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked 8 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by MarkWW
I'd guess it's also a little more resilient if you make contact.
Saw a Corima 4 spoke in multiple pieces due to a crash at the World Masters back in 2009. Though to be fair I don't think any wheel would have survived...
Dalai is offline  
Old 11-10-15, 05:02 PM
  #2807  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 645
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked 14 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by MarkWW
.................

As for your corima, I'm surprised it's not repairable. Maybe ask a few carbon repair guys if they'd be willing to tackle it. It doesn't have to handle the torque of a rear wheel, and depending on who you ask, the lateral force shouldn't be very high, so it would seem as long as you can keep the wheel true, almost any hack job of re-epoxying the hub would work.

....................
I agree however I would not trust the hack repair.
700wheel is offline  
Old 11-10-15, 06:12 PM
  #2808  
aka mattio
 
queerpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,586

Bikes: yes

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 344 Post(s)
Liked 58 Times in 35 Posts
Originally Posted by 700wheel
I agree however I would not trust the hack repair.
I would. Murakami should send the wheel to me.
queerpunk is offline  
Old 11-10-15, 07:13 PM
  #2809  
Lapped 3x
 
taras0000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 43.2330941,-79.8022037,17
Posts: 1,723
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 325 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 20 Posts
Originally Posted by Murakami
Guys, is there any advantage to having a front four spoke, over say a Campy Pista? Outdoor or indoor
Give this a read - https://www.bikeforums.net/track-cycl...leton-120.html

The Pista wheelset is based off of the old Shamal. You might be making an "upgrade" compared to the 4 spoke.
taras0000 is offline  
Old 11-10-15, 07:19 PM
  #2810  
Lapped 3x
 
taras0000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 43.2330941,-79.8022037,17
Posts: 1,723
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 325 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 20 Posts
Originally Posted by MarkWW
If you're in some real tight racing, a 3/4/5 spoke wheel also gives you just a little more wiggle room until a rider or their bike hits your spokes. I'd guess it's also a little more resilient if you make contact.

As for your corima, I'm surprised it's not repairable. Maybe ask a few carbon repair guys if they'd be willing to tackle it. It doesn't have to handle the torque of a rear wheel, and depending on who you ask, the lateral force shouldn't be very high, so it would seem as long as you can keep the wheel true, almost any hack job of re-epoxying the hub would work.

That's a solid straight-from-the-internet-without-any-knowledge guess, though.
For more prefessional jobs, there's Predator Cycling in SoCal, and Velo Zephyr in Colorado. I'm sure Appleman in Minnesota can do some repairs as well. You can also look at boat builders, as they work with composites and bonding a lot. You might need to supply them a truing stand tho.
taras0000 is offline  
Old 11-10-15, 09:50 PM
  #2811  
Elitist
Thread Starter
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times in 77 Posts
Originally Posted by Murakami
Thanks Carelton, this isn't my first season however, and ,without giving myself away, I (along with team mates) did win an extremely important national event by all of one second, but I take your point. Maybe I'll get one in time for next year's World Masters.
Sorry, I didn't intend any disrespect. I sort of honor the anonymity of people around here. So, in doing that, I make some (wrong) assumptions.

Congrats on the win!

Not sure if Taras got the link right, but the old school Campy Shamal with bladed spokes tested faster than the Zipp 404.



4 spoke is nice, but you've got lots of other good options.

- Old school Campy Shamal
- Zipp 404
- Zipp 808
- HED/Specialized Tri-Spoke (a proven fast wheel if you aren't a heavy rider)
- Mavic Io (of course)

I haven't seen any data on the Navigator or FFWD 5-spokes to say that they are actually faster than those mentioned above.
carleton is offline  
Old 11-11-15, 04:34 AM
  #2812  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Far Away
Posts: 81
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by MarkWW
As for your corima, I'm surprised it's not repairable. Maybe ask a few carbon repair guys if they'd be willing to tackle it. It doesn't have to handle the torque of a rear wheel, and depending on who you ask, the lateral force shouldn't be very high, so it would seem as long as you can keep the wheel true, almost any hack job of re-epoxying the hub would work.
I left it in with a local carbon repair guy who has worked to great effect on a frame for me and a number of team mates. He could probably do something, but doesn;t want to stand over a hack job. Which I can understand. Corima said they might be able to fix it... But it'd be €110 just to get it to them. I may still consider that route. I wouldn't even be considering buying one. I got this cheap, Only used it a few times before I realised it was a goner and just don't want to give up and have it hanging on my wall, y'know.

Thanks for all the other replies. And, I know you meant no disrespect Carelton and none was taken.
Murakami is offline  
Old 11-11-15, 06:06 AM
  #2813  
Full Member
 
dunderhi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: 130 miles from Ttown
Posts: 436

Bikes: Little Wing, XTRACK, Electron Pro, SuperCorsa, Paramount, & Thunderdrome

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by carleton
When you start losing by fractions of a second, then consider investing in aero wheels.

If you are losing by full seconds, the wheels won't buy you much.

All of the things mentioned on this list before a front wheel will make you faster than a front wheel.

https://www.bikeforums.net/track-cycl...l#post14849124
I have a 5 spoke FFWD front wheel, but I'm still waiting until I can get within a second of winner before I finally start using it. In that harsh reality, I started a new winter training program this past Monday. At least the hard bodies in the gym give me an awkward smile when they see my suffering.

All I can say for now is that the FFWD is a nice looking wheel.
dunderhi is offline  
Old 11-11-15, 07:38 AM
  #2814  
Elitist
Thread Starter
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times in 77 Posts
Originally Posted by dunderhi
I have a 5 spoke FFWD front wheel, but I'm still waiting until I can get within a second of winner before I finally start using it. In that harsh reality, I started a new winter training program this past Monday. At least the hard bodies in the gym give me an awkward smile when they see my suffering.

All I can say for now is that the FFWD is a nice looking wheel.
Getting back in the gym after a season (and the break after that season) always sucks!
carleton is offline  
Old 11-11-15, 08:48 AM
  #2815  
Senior Member
 
Impreza_aL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 437

Bikes: yellow tricycle di2 grip shifters

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
still on the prowl for those elusive pista shamals...
Impreza_aL is offline  
Old 11-11-15, 08:57 AM
  #2816  
Elitist
Thread Starter
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times in 77 Posts
Originally Posted by Impreza_aL
still on the prowl for those elusive pista shamals...
Yeah, they are hard to find.

Look for the Gipiemme Tecno 416. It's my understanding that Gipiemme made rims for Campy and the 416 looks exactly like that Shamal to me.

carleton is offline  
Old 11-11-15, 10:21 AM
  #2817  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: LI, NY
Posts: 485

Bikes: A little of each

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Has anyone here used tire alert to repair tubulars? Does he do good work?
MarkWW is offline  
Old 11-11-15, 01:32 PM
  #2818  
Senior Member
 
Regulatori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 668
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 48 Times in 13 Posts
I might try out my local velodrome one of these days and have a few random questions.

-I would be riding at the 400m oval Marymoor (Redmond, WA) velodrome. Not sure if this one is considered an average sized or smaller/larger. Would a 47x15 work okay on a track this size?

-I have an almost 10 year old Bianchi Pista. Most of the parts have been upgraded though. If I show up at an open ride day (my bike is brakeless), will I face snobbery for having an old steel bike? I've looked at google images of the track and I swear 99% of the bikes are aero aluminum/carbon wheels, etc.. (Redmond does have a lot of money though).

-Even for a casual open track day, do I need to go full spandex? I usually ride in just slightly loose shorts/t-shirt. haha
Regulatori is offline  
Old 11-11-15, 01:44 PM
  #2819  
Senior Member
 
79pmooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,967

Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder

Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4854 Post(s)
Liked 3,992 Times in 2,591 Posts
Real riding clothes will get you a level higher respect as it suggests this is something you might be interested in doing. It will also make riders around you a little more comfortable. Nothing to catch on their handlebars. Steel bike? That really doesn't matter until you are well into the game, probably not the first season and maybe not the second.

I'm not the last word here. I just spectate at the Alpenrose track two miles from my house. Haven't pinned a number in decades. But I suspect Carleton isn't going to say this advice is way out there.

Ben
79pmooney is offline  
Old 11-11-15, 04:04 PM
  #2820  
aka mattio
 
queerpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,586

Bikes: yes

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 344 Post(s)
Liked 58 Times in 35 Posts
Originally Posted by Regulatori
I might try out my local velodrome one of these days and have a few random questions.

-I would be riding at the 400m oval Marymoor (Redmond, WA) velodrome. Not sure if this one is considered an average sized or smaller/larger. Would a 47x15 work okay on a track this size?

-I have an almost 10 year old Bianchi Pista. Most of the parts have been upgraded though. If I show up at an open ride day (my bike is brakeless), will I face snobbery for having an old steel bike? I've looked at google images of the track and I swear 99% of the bikes are aero aluminum/carbon wheels, etc.. (Redmond does have a lot of money though).

-Even for a casual open track day, do I need to go full spandex? I usually ride in just slightly loose shorts/t-shirt. haha
Yup, 47x15 is a fine gear. I often recommend that newbs start racing on a 48x15 and move up as they need (not move up very far; I race some elite races on a 51x15).

Nobody's gonna look askance at you about your bike. The fancy bikes you see in pictures are the bikes of racers working their way up through the ranks. Nobody expects - or wants - beginners to have bling.

re: clothing; meh, if it's a casual open track day, wear what you feel.

The most important thing is to be aware of your surroundings and basic track etiquette (abridged version: no sudden lateral moves; shoulderchecking; taking care when entering and exiting the track so you don't interfere with other riders).
queerpunk is offline  
Old 11-11-15, 05:01 PM
  #2821  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,243
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Regulatori
I might try out my local velodrome one of these days and have a few random questions.

-I would be riding at the 400m oval Marymoor (Redmond, WA) velodrome. Not sure if this one is considered an average sized or smaller/larger. Would a 47x15 work okay on a track this size?

-I have an almost 10 year old Bianchi Pista. Most of the parts have been upgraded though. If I show up at an open ride day (my bike is brakeless), will I face snobbery for having an old steel bike? I've looked at google images of the track and I swear 99% of the bikes are aero aluminum/carbon wheels, etc.. (Redmond does have a lot of money though).

-Even for a casual open track day, do I need to go full spandex? I usually ride in just slightly loose shorts/t-shirt. haha
As someone who might be sharing that track with you, if you haven't yet please take the intro to track class.
misterwaterfall is offline  
Old 11-11-15, 08:32 PM
  #2822  
Full Member
 
dunderhi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: 130 miles from Ttown
Posts: 436

Bikes: Little Wing, XTRACK, Electron Pro, SuperCorsa, Paramount, & Thunderdrome

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by carleton
Getting back in the gym after a season (and the break after that season) always sucks!
Unfortunately, I'm getting back into the gym after a very long (decades) extend break. I'm doing an aerobic weight lifting class called Bulletproof that leaves me feeling numb. Despite the BioFreeze and Alleve my muscles are screaming the next day....okay next few days. I guess if it doesn't kill me, it will make me stronger. Hopefully, it will make me faster too.
dunderhi is offline  
Old 11-11-15, 08:42 PM
  #2823  
Full Member
 
dunderhi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: 130 miles from Ttown
Posts: 436

Bikes: Little Wing, XTRACK, Electron Pro, SuperCorsa, Paramount, & Thunderdrome

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Regulatori
I might try out my local velodrome one of these days and have a few random questions.

-I would be riding at the 400m oval Marymoor (Redmond, WA) velodrome. Not sure if this one is considered an average sized or smaller/larger. Would a 47x15 work okay on a track this size?

-I have an almost 10 year old Bianchi Pista. Most of the parts have been upgraded though. If I show up at an open ride day (my bike is brakeless), will I face snobbery for having an old steel bike? I've looked at google images of the track and I swear 99% of the bikes are aero aluminum/carbon wheels, etc.. (Redmond does have a lot of money though).

-Even for a casual open track day, do I need to go full spandex? I usually ride in just slightly loose shorts/t-shirt. haha
I got nothing but respect for my 40yr old steel bike, even though I have a decked out carbon rig. During one race, the announcer started talking about the Paramount over the PA system while I was riding my carbon bike. So, I wouldn't worry about your bike. That said, I did mention to one rider that he should get his wheels trued. They looked unsafe.

You certain can race with a 15t, I would suggest that you buy/borrow a 14t cog to see how it feels.

400m is the largest track that I am aware in the US. Other sizes are 200m, 250m, & 333m.

You can dress anyway that you like on nonrace days, but if you do anything requiring sustained fast spinning, you'll quickly realize the value of a chamois.
dunderhi is offline  
Old 11-11-15, 10:23 PM
  #2824  
Lapped 3x
 
taras0000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 43.2330941,-79.8022037,17
Posts: 1,723
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 325 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 20 Posts
Originally Posted by dunderhi

You can dress anyway that you like on nonrace days, but if you do anything requiring sustained fast spinning, you'll quickly realize the value of a chamois.

An inexpensive but reasonable pair of proper bike shorts will go a long way to ensuring your comfort for any sustained riding. On the track you will be using your hips and thighs to steer and maneuver much more than on the street. Your sit bones, taint, and inner thighs will thank you.
taras0000 is offline  
Old 11-12-15, 08:07 AM
  #2825  
aka mattio
 
queerpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,586

Bikes: yes

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 344 Post(s)
Liked 58 Times in 35 Posts
Originally Posted by MarkWW
Has anyone here used tire alert to repair tubulars? Does he do good work?
i'm still bundling enough flatted tubulars to get to the discount pricing.

i've gotten equal parts reviews that the tires come out perfect, and that they come out a little bit lumpy.

for sixteen bucks or whatever it is, it's probably worth it as an experiment - especially if you've flatted one of your sonderklasse.
queerpunk is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.