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Old 12-23-16, 10:23 AM
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I'm sure this has been asked and answered before, but in the name of expediency, I'll ask again

Does anyone use "data collection", ie. their Garmin, during a race? I know you can't have it attached to the bars or stem when racing. However, the data mine is valuable for a true race effort, and I'd like to have my Garmin somewhere on me or the bike so I can collect my HR and power data from my pedals. "On my person" would work for, say, a scratch race where I could put it in a jersey pocket, but not so well for sprint events where there are no pockets.

So.... What do you all do?
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Old 12-23-16, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by sarals
now you can't have it attached to the bars or stem when racing.
You can leave it on your bars; just have to put tape over the screen.
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Old 12-23-16, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by VanceMac
You can leave it on your bars; just have to put tape over the screen.
Hey, [MENTION=62353]VanceMac[/MENTION]! Thanks!!

That reminds me that I need to wrap some tape around the top tube. Where the handlebars want to whack said top tube.
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Old 12-23-16, 10:37 AM
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Another (loaded) question.

Helmets.

I've noticed many, many sprinters, especially at the elite and pro levels, use those expensive Casco helmets. For team pursuits, TT helmets. I'm good with the TT helmet I have, but I'm discovering that my Catlike helmet, while good, isn't as "fast" as I'd like for sprinting.

Mind you, I'm still learning/training/building for the coming season. But, I'd like a leg up on equipment.

What do you all use for sprint events?
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Old 12-23-16, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by sarals
Helmets.

I've noticed many, many sprinters, especially at the elite and pro levels, use those expensive Casco helmets.
Unfortunately helmets are very specific for each individual. When I went into a windtunnel a while back, there was a Masters track sprinter in for testing and his Casco tested worse than his vented road helmet!
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Old 12-23-16, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by sarals
I'm sure this has been asked and answered before, but in the name of expediency, I'll ask again

Does anyone use "data collection", ie. their Garmin, during a race?

...

So.... What do you all do?
YES

https://www.bikeforums.net/track-cycl...computers.html
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Old 12-23-16, 08:13 PM
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Computer screen can't be seen by the rider during the race so under the saddle, under the stem, screen taped off are all legal way of keeping your computer on the bike the race. Just make sure it is properly attached so it won't come flying out of a corner.

Helmets and sprinting: Short-tail TT helmet like Kask Bambino, Lazer Wasp Air (or the soon to be available Lazer track air), Poc Cerebel, Bontrager Aelous, Catlike Rapid and Spec S-works TT are good option that won't took much of an aero drag reduction when you turn your head to spot your rival during a match sprint or in a keirin heat but will still be faster than normal round helmet. Lazer, Kask and Poc short-tail TT helmet have been accepted in the past at world cup level for mass-start race. Laura Trott always wear her Lazer Wasp air in every mass-start race.

The idea behind the popularity of helmets of low-profile round helmet like the Casco Warp, Giro Air attack etc is that the constant looking around in sprinting would mess the aerodynamics of TT helmet. When wind tunnel access got easier, that idea was quickly debunked. The Giro Air Attack is less aero than most normal vented road helmet at any degree of yaw.
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Old 12-23-16, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Godsight
Computer screen can't be seen by the rider during the race so under the saddle, under the stem, screen taped off are all legal way of keeping your computer on the bike the race. Just make sure it is properly attached so it won't come flying out of a corner.

Helmets and sprinting: Short-tail TT helmet like Kask Bambino, Lazer Wasp Air (or the soon to be available Lazer track air), Poc Cerebel, Bontrager Aelous, Catlike Rapid and Spec S-works TT are good option that won't took much of an aero drag reduction when you turn your head to spot your rival during a match sprint or in a keirin heat but will still be faster than normal round helmet. Lazer, Kask and Poc short-tail TT helmet have been accepted in the past at world cup level for mass-start race. Laura Trott always wear her Lazer Wasp air in every mass-start race.

The idea behind the popularity of helmets of low-profile round helmet like the Casco Warp, Giro Air attack etc is that the constant looking around in sprinting would mess the aerodynamics of TT helmet. When wind tunnel access got easier, that idea was quickly debunked. The Giro Air Attack is less aero than most normal vented road helmet at any degree of yaw.
[MENTION=47245]Dalai[/MENTION] and [MENTION=34156]carleton[/MENTION], thanks!

[MENTION=250463]Godsight[/MENTION], thanks for that! I was considering the Giro, not anymore.
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Old 12-23-16, 08:26 PM
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Also, sarals, the rules about bike computers are rarely (if ever) enforced at local races in the US. You will likely never be asked (or expected) to put your computer out of view or cover it up in a race. Only in USA Cycling sanctioned events (state championships, regionals, nationals, masters nationals, etc...) will it become an issue.

Even if you plan on racing one of the events that would require hiding/covering your computer, you don't have to train all year with it covered. Just cover/hide it at the event.

I hear that local racing in Australia does enforce all such rules.

Why can't you have your computer visible to you during a race? I believe it's because it can be used as a pacing aid during time trials. In a long TT, you may pace yourself based on speed, cadence, and/or power output.
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Old 12-24-16, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by carleton
I hear that local racing in Australia does enforce all such rules.
The commissaires here do like to enforce the rules. I've been asked even sometimes at club level races to cover the screen!
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Old 12-24-16, 10:26 AM
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I haven't raced on the track, yet. Hellyer is my local velodrome, and I don't know what the heck they do there during events. I know for the UCI Masters Worlds at Carson in October, I will have to adhere to those USAC and UCI rules regarding my Garmin.

For road TT's, I DO rely on my power meter for pacing. My coach has a plus or minus ten percent rule, which I follow closely, and RPE doesn't always work for that, especially right out of the start house when the adrenaline is high. I keep power, time and speed in view in those TT's.

I have my Garmin on my track bike during training sessions, but I don't look at it very often. I might glance at it during the 30 lap warmup when I hit the front of the paceline to be sure I'm not changing speed, but that's about it. After I go home and put the data into Golden Cheetah is when I drill down and look. Oh, then there's Strava (of course).

You all do the same, I'm sure, but I usually don't hit the kind of numbers in training that I can in a race. That goes for cadence averages, peak power, sustained power, and time above threshold for my heart rate. It's reinforcing to see what I can REALLY do when I need to!
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Old 12-24-16, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by sarals
I haven't raced on the track, yet. Hellyer is my local velodrome, and I don't know what the heck they do there during events. I know for the UCI Masters Worlds at Carson in October, I will have to adhere to those USAC and UCI rules regarding my Garmin.

For road TT's, I DO rely on my power meter for pacing. My coach has a plus or minus ten percent rule, which I follow closely, and RPE doesn't always work for that, especially right out of the start house when the adrenaline is high. I keep power, time and speed in view in those TT's.
for the sake of individual and team pursuit you'll eventually want someone to call splits to you. much better than trying to track your pace on a computer. A coach, friend, someone with a stopwatch will do well for this job.

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Old 12-25-16, 10:29 AM
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[MENTION=185560]theblackbullet[/MENTION], thank you!
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Old 12-27-16, 08:38 AM
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So I'm like a brand new new new newbie track racer, as you'll probably be able to tell by my question. I've been riding some informal races and club level stuff, and I've even managed to pull off a win or two, but I have a persistent problem. No matter how straight of a line I feel like I'm holding around the track, every time I hit a curve it feels like the going gets a little tougher, even when I line my front wheel up with a tape line and hold it as true as I can. I know there must be a way to avoid this, but I'm a little lost as to how, anyone have tips?
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Old 12-27-16, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by trenzafeeds
No matter how straight of a line I feel like I'm holding around the track, every time I hit a curve it feels like the going gets a little tougher, even when I line my front wheel up with a tape line and hold it as true as I can.
You mean you're having trouble holding a line through the turns?

- First and foremost, look further ahead, through the turn
- Relax your upper body and concentrate on not trying to actively steer with your hands
- Some people find it helpful to tilt their heads right, to remain level with the horizon
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Old 12-27-16, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Koogar
You mean you're having trouble holding a line through the turns?

- First and foremost, look further ahead, through the turn
- Relax your upper body and concentrate on not trying to actively steer with your hands
- Some people find it helpful to tilt their heads right, to remain level with the horizon
Awesome, these sound like very useful tips. I'll try them out, thanks a ton!
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Old 12-27-16, 04:11 PM
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Trying to decipher the sensation you're describing. Is it related to holding a line (like Koogar mentioned), or does it feel harder to pedal?

The first one can be mitigated with Koogar's tips. The head tilt thing helps too. I've best described it as "leading with your chin". You can also drop your inside elbow to initiate the lean into the banking. These two things I have found to clear up most peoples problems with holding a line in the banks.

The second one is a mental thing. Most people back off their effort in the turns because the G-forces tells their brains to do that on a subconscious level. You can in fact, raise your speed as long as you keep pedaling faster (not harder) when you lean in, because your center of mass (which is already moving at a constant speed) is traveling along a shorter path than your wheels, causing your wheel speed to increase. This comes with practice, but shouldn't take long.

These graphs illustrate that effect
https://photos1.blogger.com/blogger2/...0/PursuitA.jpg

They can even predict it's effect when modeling pursuit strategies
Figure 3 about 80% of the way down the page.
Training and Racing With a Power Meter Journal: May 2010
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Old 12-27-16, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by trenzafeeds
So I'm like a brand new new new newbie track racer, as you'll probably be able to tell by my question. I've been riding some informal races and club level stuff, and I've even managed to pull off a win or two, but I have a persistent problem. No matter how straight of a line I feel like I'm holding around the track, every time I hit a curve it feels like the going gets a little tougher, even when I line my front wheel up with a tape line and hold it as true as I can. I know there must be a way to avoid this, but I'm a little lost as to how, anyone have tips?
What you are experiencing is normal. It's more so in smaller, "tighter" tracks (like 200 or 250M) and less so on "bowl-shaped" large tracks (like 333 or 400M).

What exacerbates it is when you are anywhere on the track but the black line. Basically you literally climb into turns the further from the center you go. If you are along the boards, you will exert a lot of energy climbing into turns 1 or 3. But, you will get some of that energy back when you "fall" out of turns 2 and 4. That doesn't negate the fact that you can "burn a match" if you exert too much climbing into the turn. That will make you feel bad.

This is actually a match sprinting technique: A leading rider may try to force a trailing rider (slightly behind) to climb into a steep turn and exert some glycogen and scrubbing off a few KPH off of their speed in doing so...enough to allow the leading rider to win a drag race from that point.

Welcome to track racing. It's not as easy as it seems
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Old 12-27-16, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by carleton
Welcome to track racing. It's not as easy as it seems
That's for darned tootin...

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Old 01-19-17, 03:25 AM
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I am planning to race in Time Trial until my summer break(my studio ends at 7 pm, so I cannot attend 'Monday Night Sprints')
So what path should I take for 500m and kilo?

upupup has flying 200m, but they don't have 500m or kilo

and can anyone give any training tips for time trials.
I am mostly training on an empty street(it's about 750m), but I am also planning to go to the track every Sunday.

Thanks

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Old 01-19-17, 07:52 AM
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for the 500m and the kilo, there's less specific technique than the 250. with events like the kilo (and the pursuit, too) a lot of people rarely if ever actually do the correct distance in training. instead they focus on the fundamentals of track training - undergeared efforts (legspeed), overgeared efforts (strength), underdistance efforts (speed), overdistance efforts (fatigue resistance).

to train, break each event down into components: the start, the top speed, and the endurance (holding that speed).

this video is about as good a primer on a standing start as you can get - straight arms, drive the hips forward, use the arms to help drive the legs down into the pedal stroke:

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Old 01-19-17, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by queerpunk
for the 500m and the kilo, there's less specific technique than the 250. with events like the kilo (and the pursuit, too) a lot of people rarely if ever actually do the correct distance in training. instead they focus on the fundamentals of track training - undergeared efforts (legspeed), overgeared efforts (strength), underdistance efforts (speed), overdistance efforts (fatigue resistance).

to train, break each event down into components: the start, the top speed, and the endurance (holding that speed).

this video is about as good a primer on a standing start as you can get - straight arms, drive the hips forward, use the arms to help drive the legs down into the pedal stroke:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1AfJSrh1ME
Thank you for the great tip!
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Old 01-20-17, 10:29 AM
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I love the 500M and wish that more elite men did it.

Training for the 500 is relatively easy:

- Work on max leg strength in the gym. With corresponding core and arm strength. Some people can get their legs so strong that they pull their fingers off of the bars during standing starts. So, also work on dead lift with no straps/hooks.
- Work on Power after your strength has leveld-off.
- Work on standing start technique. Standing start is key to the 500m
- Work on max speed.
- Focus on obtaining the optimal gear (use analysis of cadence to do this). Too big and you never get "on top" of the gear and too small and you are spinning like a hamster in a wheel. Basically, pick the biggest gear that you can hit ___RPM with.
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Old 01-20-17, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by carleton
I love the 500M and wish that more elite men did it.

Training for the 500 is relatively easy:

- Work on max leg strength in the gym. With corresponding core and arm strength. Some people can get their legs so strong that they pull their fingers off of the bars during standing starts. So, also work on dead lift with no straps/hooks.
- Work on Power after your strength has leveld-off.
- Work on standing start technique. Standing start is key to the 500m
- Work on max speed.
- Focus on obtaining the optimal gear (use analysis of cadence to do this). Too big and you never get "on top" of the gear and too small and you are spinning like a hamster in a wheel. Basically, pick the biggest gear that you can hit ___RPM with.
So basically it's similar to my regular training.
Except I am more focusing on standing start instead of my max speed

Also I have been training for more than few months, but max speed didn't improved.
Does that mean I don'thave enough power?
With low gear ratio I could hit upto 145rpm and on a roller max rpm is 203
Thanks

Last edited by gycho77; 01-20-17 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 01-20-17, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by gycho77
So basically it's similar to my regular training.
Except I am more focusing on standing start instead of my max speed

Also I have been training for more than few months, but max speed didn't improved.
Does that mean I don'thave enough power?
With low gear ratio I could hit upto 145rpm and on a roller max rpm is 203
Thanks
You aren't looking for absolute max rpm. There is a sweet spot of RPM and Torque where power is maximized. It's around 120-135 RPM. Over 140 is too much.

Max speed is directly related to your 500M time. Higher max speed, faster 500M time. So you don't have to do a full 500M to see how your progress is coming.

If your max speeds are not progressing, then you may need to change your program or you are maxed out.
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