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Old 01-06-18, 04:50 PM
  #4801  
cfreemanpt
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Hey y'all, I have a small, random track question. I currently have 40cm Pro Vibe track bars on my bike. I'm toying with the idea of going to a narrower bar this season, 35-37cm, but before I do I was curious about how a narrower bar affects handling, drop/reach being similar.
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Old 01-06-18, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by cfreemanpt View Post
Hey y'all, I have a small, random track question. I currently have 40cm Pro Vibe track bars on my bike. I'm toying with the idea of going to a narrower bar this season, 35-37cm, but before I do I was curious about how a narrower bar affects handling, drop/reach being similar.
i think it depends on the rider. somebody who has a weak core, bad weight distribution, and tends to forcibly steer the bike might feel like it affects handling badly. but somebody who doesn't do that stuff is likely to feel a pretty negligible effect.

when i put 36cm bars on my bike, i also put a 10mm longer stem, and feel like i could even go longer (though that's also due to the new bars having a very shallow drop) - so, consider the effect of new bars on the rest of your setup.

i have a set of 36cm Zipps i'd like to get rid of - feel free to hit me up if you want to experiment with something a lot cheaper than the expensive narrow track bars.
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Old 01-07-18, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
i think it depends on the rider. somebody who has a weak core, bad weight distribution, and tends to forcibly steer the bike might feel like it affects handling badly. but somebody who doesn't do that stuff is likely to feel a pretty negligible effect.

when i put 36cm bars on my bike, i also put a 10mm longer stem, and feel like i could even go longer (though that's also due to the new bars having a very shallow drop) - so, consider the effect of new bars on the rest of your setup.

i have a set of 36cm Zipps i'd like to get rid of - feel free to hit me up if you want to experiment with something a lot cheaper than the expensive narrow track bars.
+1

cfreemanpt, just understand that it's gonna feel different and don't give up on them after 1 or 2 rides. Whenever you try whatever bars you try, give them a fair shot of at least 4 sessions.

As queerpunk points out, the geo will change, so if you feel like you need a stem that's 2-4cm longer than before, go with it, as many of the narrow bars are also shorter in reach combined with the fact that when your arms are wide apart then come in closer, they push your back up. To get back down, you have to reach out more. This is one reason why you see 130 and 140mm stems mated with narrow bars.

Last edited by carleton; 01-07-18 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 01-10-18, 11:27 PM
  #4804  
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Decent end plugs for 3T Minstrel Aero Bars

Iím looking for some decent end plugs for 3T Minstrel Aero Bars. Something of substance and not completely flat and cut off at the end.

I canít seem to find anything out there but the cheap plastic end caps from 3T or the caps with the hole in them for TT bar shifter cables.

Any ideas?
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Old 01-10-18, 11:53 PM
  #4805  
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Originally Posted by krispenhartung View Post
Iím looking for some decent end plugs for 3T Minstrel Aero Bars. Something of substance and not completely flat and cut off at the end.

I canít seem to find anything out there but the cheap plastic end caps from 3T or the caps with the hole in them for TT bar shifter cables.

Any ideas?
Wine corks if you want something different.
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Old 01-11-18, 05:34 AM
  #4806  
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Originally Posted by krispenhartung View Post
Iím looking for some decent end plugs for 3T Minstrel Aero Bars. Something of substance and not completely flat and cut off at the end.

I canít seem to find anything out there but the cheap plastic end caps from 3T or the caps with the hole in them for TT bar shifter cables.

Any ideas?
Find somebody with a 3d printer and print some in whatever shape you want.

I made bullet shaped plugs for my bars.

Zipp also (at least used to) make some rounded plugs that are similar.
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Old 01-11-18, 08:09 AM
  #4807  
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Originally Posted by krispenhartung View Post
Iím looking for some decent end plugs for 3T Minstrel Aero Bars. Something of substance and not completely flat and cut off at the end.

I canít seem to find anything out there but the cheap plastic end caps from 3T or the caps with the hole in them for TT bar shifter cables.

Any ideas?
https://www.shopforwatts.co.uk/colle...ro-accessories
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Old 01-11-18, 08:53 AM
  #4808  
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Originally Posted by Morelock View Post
Find somebody with a 3d printer and print some in whatever shape you want.

I made bullet shaped plugs for my bars.

Zipp also (at least used to) make some rounded plugs that are similar.
Cool. The Zipp may work.
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Old 01-11-18, 04:26 PM
  #4809  
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Originally Posted by krispenhartung View Post
Iím looking for some decent end plugs for 3T Minstrel Aero Bars. Something of substance and not completely flat and cut off at the end.

I canít seem to find anything out there but the cheap plastic end caps from 3T or the caps with the hole in them for TT bar shifter cables.

Any ideas?
Profile has them, very cheap. Email them.
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Old 01-20-18, 06:10 PM
  #4810  
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I'd like to use my HED H3 track clincher front wheel on m TT bike, but I'd like to find some lower profile (thinner?) track bolts that are more aero and don't stick out as far, or perhaps some sort of cover for them. Anyone know if a solution?
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Old 01-21-18, 12:06 AM
  #4811  
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Originally Posted by krispenhartung View Post
I'd like to use my HED H3 track clincher front wheel on m TT bike, but I'd like to find some lower profile (thinner?) track bolts that are more aero and don't stick out as far, or perhaps some sort of cover for them. Anyone know if a solution?
If you can find the right axle for it, you can probably convert it to a hollow road axle that can be used with regular quick releases. You'd probably need a ~120 mm hollow 9x1 mm threaded axle.
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Old 01-21-18, 12:40 PM
  #4812  
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Originally Posted by krispenhartung View Post
I'd like to use my HED H3 track clincher front wheel on m TT bike, but I'd like to find some lower profile (thinner?) track bolts that are more aero and don't stick out as far, or perhaps some sort of cover for them. Anyone know if a solution?
Are you looking for track bolts or track nuts? If it's track nuts, I just noticed my zipp nuts are the smallest in my collection. If it uses 5mm bolts, the system that surly uses on their ultra new hubs are the smallest I could find.
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Old 01-21-18, 12:53 PM
  #4813  
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Originally Posted by MarkWW View Post
Are you looking for track bolts or track nuts? If it's track nuts, I just noticed my zipp nuts are the smallest in my collection. If it uses 5mm bolts, the system that surly uses on their ultra new hubs are the smallest I could find.
track nuts. I'll check out the Zipp..just something not so thick that sticks out less would work. thanks
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Old 01-21-18, 04:42 PM
  #4814  
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Originally Posted by krispenhartung View Post
track nuts. I'll check out the Zipp..just something not so thick that sticks out less would work. thanks


Here in order are a zipp, dura ace, and formula track nut. Note these are all rear 10x1mm nuts.
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Old 01-21-18, 05:19 PM
  #4815  
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This here is some serious "marginal gains" stuff...
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Old 01-21-18, 05:54 PM
  #4816  
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
This here is some serious "marginal gains" stuff...
Seriously.

In the CdA forumula, the A being saved here is literally measured in millimeters..maybe smaller. The percentage gain over the entire system is less than 1/1000th of a percent?

You'd do better by taking a file to parts of your bike

Originally Posted by MarkWW View Post


Here in order are a zipp, dura ace, and formula track nut. Note these are all rear 10x1mm nuts.

I came to write that the Zipp nuts have the most narrow "shoulders". So narrow that they are frustrating to use on Zipp Discs as the 15mm wrench will often hop off when torquing them down.

They are probably difficult to find as Zipp no longer makes wheels that use such nuts.

Dura Ace is your best bet in terms of size, quality, and availability. Given the opporutunity, one should probably replace the nuts on all track wheels with DA nuts.

One note: DA front and DA rear nuts have different thread pitches. BUT, budget hubs will often use the same pitch for both front and rear.

DA nuts are pricey but worth it as the built-in washer on them last much longer than cheaper nuts.
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Old 01-21-18, 06:35 PM
  #4817  
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Is it sad that after I wrote my reply, I started thinking about those plastic caps that come on little kids bikes to cover the wheel nuts and whether they are more aero or not?

On a side note, my track nuts that came with my hed wheels look exactly like dura ace nuts. It wouldn't surprise me if they were.
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Old 01-22-18, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Seriously.

In the CdA forumula, the A being saved here is literally measured in millimeters..maybe smaller. The percentage gain over the entire system is less than 1/1000th of a percent?
.............................
I agree that smaller nuts will have a negligible on CdA. Maybe buy a pair of aero socks that tonight's World Cup commentator mentioned.
I found this site after the race finished https://www.rule28.com/the-science/
However I am somewhat skeptical until I see tests based on a moving leg.
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Old 01-22-18, 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by 700wheel View Post
I agree that smaller nuts will have a negligible on CdA. Maybe buy a pair of aero socks that tonight's World Cup commentator mentioned.
I found this site after the race finished https://www.rule28.com/the-science/
However I am somewhat skeptical until I see tests based on a moving leg.
Or we could save $35 and simply wear no socks at all:



The gains over no socks seem to be within the margin of error of most power meters, +/1 0.5% (1% total error).

At the level at which those ladies and gents race, it makes a difference. But, not sure about for us mere mortals


EDIT:
And, yes, the margins may be even smaller when the leg is chopping up air that has already been chopped by the front wheel, fork, and down tube.
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Old 01-22-18, 05:30 AM
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aero socks depend a lot on the person wearing them and their pedaling style, and likely how vertical your lower leg stays. Trip socks are the hardest to nail down, because you also have an element of user error when putting them on.
I tested a few pair a while back... trip socks were best (although the rule28's and their clones weren't out yet. Part of the premise behind them is that they remove the human factor and possibility of screwing it up) for me... and it was more than outside the margin of error. However, that's n=1... Wiggins wore trip socks for his hour and no socks for team pursuit... so take from that what you will. A fellow on ST tested shoes, a boa dial "chunky" tri shoe vs. super slick Team GB approved custom Simmons shoes and found almost no difference, yet others found large gains going from boa shoes to lace ups. (again, I imagine a lot of that depends on how flat your foot is through the pedalstroke)

Like everything to do with aerodynamics if you don't test you are really just guessing... you can make educated guesses, but no promises if it worked for 99 people out of 100 that it'll work for you.

*Funny thing I heard, Jim Manton (from Erosports) helped the US Women's Pursuit team for Rio... they tested a LOT of socks. The best ones they found? The socks that Assos had given them to train in. (Not the socks Assos planned as aero socks) The problem was nobody at Assos had kept that "recipe" around, so the women ended up using those stark white socks because that's all they had.

I agree though, the safe/cost effective solution is shaved legs and hidden socks.
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Old 02-05-18, 09:28 AM
  #4821  
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What torque do you do your axle bolts up to on both carbon and alloy? Front and back. I think i have over-tightened mine as some are shearing
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Old 02-05-18, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by MrMinty View Post
What torque do you do your axle bolts up to on both carbon and alloy? Front and back. I think i have over-tightened mine as some are shearing
What's shearing?? The track ends? Or are you stripping threads on the axle/nut?
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Old 02-05-18, 10:03 AM
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It looks to be the track ends, so I think they are over tightened
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Old 02-05-18, 10:33 AM
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I have some $300 Castelli speed suits from around 2011 that are still in good condition, but they have a slight smell to them. I don't think it's from sweat (although it could be) because I have kits from that era that I wore more often that do not have the smell. It doesn't smell rotten like "pad rot" (a term from my BMX freestyle days when I'd go too long without washing my helmet or pads). It's simply a slight unfriendly odor when you get within a few inches of the speed suit.

Any idea how I can preferably neutralize this or at least mask it?
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Old 02-05-18, 11:05 AM
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I always wash mine with head & shoulders and lukewarm'ish water and hang dry. Mine seem to stay smell free. (or I'm used to it...)

Failing that/quick fix... maybe those febreeze sprayers? Or some AXE if you want to attract all the ladies.
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