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Old 10-05-18, 05:56 AM
  #5226  
topflightpro
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I've got the BLS straps. The pedal axle version works well with my Speedplay pedals, which do not have a good way for attaching straps. But they are not quality straps. I've had them less than a year and do not use them all the time, but they are showing significant signs of wear, to the point that I could see them snapping soon.

I'm not sure what my next plan will be. I could certainly buy something like the Cruz Components adapter for my Speedplays to run different straps, but that adds a few more mm below my pedals, and with my 170 cranks, I already experience pedal rub on 250 tracks when going at a moderate pace.

I'd prefer not to switch to another pedal system, but I may have to.

(Also, BP, I ordered a pair of those Lakes, but in black with white stripes. Not sure when they'll be here - my LBS says Lakes are slow to get in, but my season is over, so no rush.)
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Old 10-05-18, 06:23 AM
  #5227  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
(Also, BP, I ordered a pair of those Lakes, but in black with white stripes. Not sure when they'll be here - my LBS says Lakes are slow to get in, but my season is over, so no rush.)
I REALLY like them, and if you have wide feet like me, they'll be a revelation.
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Old 10-05-18, 06:41 AM
  #5228  
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Thanks. I'll look into that.

I think the BLS I have are too far forward (they're not the axle ones)

Last edited by southernfox; 10-05-18 at 06:46 AM.
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Old 10-05-18, 08:33 AM
  #5229  
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Old 10-05-18, 09:36 AM
  #5230  
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I suppose if people are super paranoid about pulling out, they could go back to the first clipless pedals ever made (Cinelli?) that required you to be screwed into the pedal. Part of the reason for pulling out isn't just about power: I think some riders just have a starting pedaling action that tends to clip out more easily than others. Historically, I think many find riders find Shimano pedals SPD SL and SPD R to be more secure -- it's not just the spring tension but something about the cleat design and how it interfaces with the pedal that makes it more difficult to accidentally unclip. Add in a Hoy type retention system as shown in Carleton's pic and you've got a really good system for standing starts. The Modern Look system seems similar to Shimano, but it just doesn't work as well for standing starts.

I think any first year track rider learns that pulling out on a pedal isn't a legitimate mishap -- it's considered within the category of "rider error equipment malfunction". Pretty similar to dropping a chain in a criterium or rolling a tire. Now I've seen riders finagle a free lap by claiming, "I struck a pedal and the tire rolled when the bike came back down..." but that's pushing the envelope of the definition of an equipment malfunction.
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Old 10-05-18, 09:57 AM
  #5231  
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I think part of the problem with modern straps is that they are too far forward, as mentioned by SF, but also, that they are only engaging the bottom of the pedal, and not the actual clasp like the hoy/baranosky/VP design.

In the past, with the SPD-r system, riders used to take the loop tang trom toe clips, cut them down, drill a hole and mount them to the clasp using the tensioning screw. That pulls the clasp up and forward, as does the hoy/baranosky/VP system. Ay e something machined or printed to hold the strap, that uses a new/longer retention screw is what's needed.

I goofed on the bottom drawing. There are supposed to be 4 legs on it to accomodate curves n the design of the pedal clasp.

Last edited by taras0000; 10-05-18 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 10-05-18, 10:03 AM
  #5232  
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I only drew that up like that because I was looking at the Assioma pedals and it looked like the tension screw was on an angle on the backside of the clasp, thereby pulling the clasp up and forward.

Any bracket angle could made up to accomodate different clasp designs/screw angles. If the screw were horizontal when the pedal was level, some more design/engineering would have to go into it, as at that angle, some shear force would be present.

The best design would have
1) to pull the clasp closed (up and forward)
2) act on any mounting hardware in compression while limiting shear/tension forces (because the screws are so small, and materials relatively soft and weak, which makes for a weak interface)
3) and place the strap behind the ball of the foot, ideally as far back as possible. This increases the leverage of the strap against any rotation of the foot, minimizing accidental disengagement.

Last edited by taras0000; 10-06-18 at 12:17 AM.
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Old 10-05-18, 02:19 PM
  #5233  
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This design is horrible and is only slightly better than zip-tying your straps to your pedla spindle.

And this one is just as bad.
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Old 10-05-18, 02:23 PM
  #5234  
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These are a little better because they place the strap behind the ball of your foot.​​​​​​




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Old 10-05-18, 02:27 PM
  #5235  
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These, along with the above mentioned ones by Carlton and Bebifudo, are the best because they place the strap better and serve to Acton the clasp in a way that closes it up

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Old 10-05-18, 03:47 PM
  #5236  
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Originally Posted by taras0000 View Post
Wow, this one actually reverse engineered itself all the way back to toe-clips. Seems like the rider might as well just use some NJS pedals.
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Old 10-05-18, 04:19 PM
  #5237  
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Originally Posted by seau grateau View Post
Wow, this one actually reverse engineered itself all the way back to toe-clips. Seems like the rider might as well just use some NJS pedals.
Sort of. This design could be improved simply by not piercing the strap with the screw like this rider did. The bent kick tab at the back would keep the strap from sliding off backwards, and the integrity of the strap is maintained.

The old school slotted cleats could still pop loose if you didn't have the Deep slotted cleats. Using newer pedals with the same system adds a little bit of double redundancy there at least. He probably just ended up having the the rat trap on just to make the pedal easier to slip into. There are the MKS EXA (https://www.mkspedal.com/?q=en/product/node/71) pedals that many Japanese Keirin riders use. It uses the 3 hole mount, but it's a system that's really only feasible for track use, so you would need a different set up for the road to train on.

I did something similar. Mine looked similar but without the rat trap at the front for my speed plays but what I did was have new bow ties machine for the bottom side. They were thicker than normal had a tang on the back and a slot milled into them to accomodate a strap. You needed really stiff straps to be able to get into them easily. I wish I took pictures of the set up.

Last edited by taras0000; 10-05-18 at 06:25 PM.
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Old 10-05-18, 05:13 PM
  #5238  
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Agree, I think the VP is the best off the shelf design at the moment. In my experience, they are basically just like LOOK Keo low-mid level pedals, maybe bearings and materials a little nicer, but basic pedal design. The bearings do develop a little play, but not excessive, and the price is right as well. Recommended.
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Old 10-05-18, 06:06 PM
  #5239  
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
Agree, I think the VP is the best off the shelf design at the moment. In my experience, they are basically just like LOOK Keo low-mid level pedals, maybe bearings and materials a little nicer, but basic pedal design. The bearings do develop a little play, but not excessive, and the price is right as well. Recommended.
Now that I've moved within 45min of Milton, I've been seriously considering getting them, as staying with my current SPD-R set up means altering soles, custom shoes, or making shoes. I really like the idea of making my own set, and have the means and knowledge to do so, it's just whether or not I want to devote the time to tinkering with it. I have narrow feet, with a narrow heel and moderately high arches, so finding shoes that fit well is always a pain. It will still be a few months before I am able to devote any time to riding outside of the house, so I have some time to decide. It's just weighing whether I want to stick with what I consider the best pedal system for sprinting, and dealing with the hassles from time to time, or modernizing my set up and be able to use current equipment. I have enough gear to outfit 4 bikes, so the inventory is there for me to use, it's just dealing with shoes going forward.
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Old 10-05-18, 06:21 PM
  #5240  
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Here are some other Speedplay mods that I came across in case people were interested.




I don't recommend this set up at all as it weakens the strap. I did this the first time around and it held for about a season, but then I went to tighten the straps one time and the strap snapped on me.

This is the better way of doing it


Or even doing this

In this one, the straps are sandwiched between the cleat and a piece of plastic. The screws don't pierce the straps.
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Old 10-06-18, 06:32 AM
  #5241  
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^I tried the top one on my Speedplays (just poke a hole in the strap and run a washer/bolt into the bottom of the pedal) agree looks weak especially over time. Hadn't ever seen the one below it, although it looks like a much better solution.

Then again... for my meager starts pulling a pedal would be an accomplishment in itself.
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Old 10-06-18, 11:18 AM
  #5242  
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Looked at some data, and I'm putting out >250Nm in my starts.
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Old 10-06-18, 11:41 AM
  #5243  
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This is another example of Track getting hand-me-down tech from the Road world where we have very specific (and somewhat easy to solve) needs that we will pay to have met.

This is an opportunity for some pedal company.



This is a great start, but it's still a relatively minor adaptation to the standard Road pedal.

What if a Track pedal were designed from the ground up?
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Old 10-06-18, 01:49 PM
  #5244  
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Originally Posted by southernfox View Post
Looked at some data, and I'm putting out >250Nm in my starts.
Pics or it didn't happen

I got pics:





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Old 10-06-18, 02:47 PM
  #5245  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
This is another example of Track getting hand-me-down tech from the Road world where we have very specific (and somewhat easy to solve) needs that we will pay to have met.

This is an opportunity for some pedal company.



This is a great start, but it's still a relatively minor adaptation to the standard Road pedal.

What if a Track pedal were designed from the ground up?
I honestly wouldn't change anything about this design except for maybe bearings and offering multiple spindle lengths. It is a relatively ground-up design in that the pedal body itself, as well as the clasp are designed and manufactured from the start to accept straps. It solves the strap problem without altering or adding to the pedal. Fact is, the way the pedal is made, in no way harms its function, but improves it as soon as straps are added, as per the design, and as per out wants and needs. It ticks all the boxes that trackies want and need with absolutely no detriments.

The SPD-R were almost the perfect track pedal in my opinion, Solid metal to metal interface, no chance of breaking a cleat, and strong enough to adapt straps securely. People dropped them when SPD-SL came out. Many were saying (I believe you included) that having the wider/solid platform was a help, from a propriocetive standpoint. So if a wider platform was needed, then SL solved that. All that was needed was a good retention system. One that was strong and adaptable/accepting for straps. If a company like VP can do it, why can't Shimano or LOOK? Because there's no money in it. They already have the lion's share of the high end pedal market, and they're not losing it.

VP comes up with a pedal that was designed for track right from the ground up, and barely anyone buys it. The clasp AND pedal body are slotted to accept straps, single or double. I remember when they first came out years ago, 2011 I think, yet how many people do you see using them? I know of two people who actually own them. How many people are using strap hacks on SL pedals, or LOOKS? I bet you that there are more hacks than VPs. People like us keep saying that we want these track specific products, yet no one goes out and buys them when they hit the market. What message does that send to the manufacturers? If enough people started to buy the VP pedals, you can bet your ass that Shimano and LOOK will offer something. Why? Because they are losing market share.

You want track stuff, buy track stuff when it comes available. If people keep adapting and hacking stuff, then manufacturers have no incentive to make what we want. Why? Because people are still buying their product and it costs them no extra time or money for us to change their product. They are out nothing and we're still buying their product. Buy track stuff, and Shimano and LOOK and will lose out on product and will try to reclaim that market. It's not the offerings that are the problem, it's the consumers.

Last edited by taras0000; 10-06-18 at 02:56 PM.
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Old 10-06-18, 02:48 PM
  #5246  
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These are the NZ track straps, they fit better than BLS which i had last year.


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Old 10-06-18, 03:44 PM
  #5247  
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For @carleton

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Old 10-06-18, 05:07 PM
  #5248  
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Originally Posted by southernfox View Post
For @carleton

Touché
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Old 10-09-18, 09:35 AM
  #5249  
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Is there anywhere to buy Fujitoshi style straps ( or similar off brand versions?) for reasonable money? As i understand it Fujitoshi stopped making straps a long time ago and all the ones i have seen are extremely expensive.

Thanks
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Old 10-09-18, 10:27 AM
  #5250  
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There are more brands that make laminated double straps. MKS, and Errebi are two others. Errebi makes the mint green "Sprint" brand straps.
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