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Old 01-21-19, 01:45 PM
  #5451  
rensho3
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Originally Posted by Kaben View Post
Slightly tangential question, just realised that the front zipp 900 disc Iím looking at is at least 12 years old ( think they stopped production in 2007).
Would you guys buy/ride a disc that is that old? Itís mint condition externally but As I understand it they are filled with a foam substance - would this break down over time and reduce structural integrity do you think?

i do have a habit of over thinking equipment durability as a heavier rider ( 100kg at the moment).
I used a Zipp disc from 1999 until I broke it in a crash in 2015. I don't think you have to worry about the structural integrity of the disc. The big problem with a Zipp disc of that vintage is whether you can get parts if you have to rebuild the axel/bearing assembly.

I also agree that the price is too high.
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Old 01-21-19, 02:09 PM
  #5452  
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Originally Posted by rensho3 View Post
I used a Zipp disc from 1999 until I broke it in a crash in 2015. I don't think you have to worry about the structural integrity of the disc. The big problem with a Zipp disc of that vintage is whether you can get parts if you have to rebuild the axel/bearing assembly.

I also agree that the price is too high.
Hi rensho l, thanks for that, itís definitely good to hear that they have a good lifespan. Iím hoping to hear back from zipp on this soon but Iím pretty hopeful they will say itís ok to use.
The wheel has been converted to ceramic speed bearings so that shouldnít be a problem, not sure about the axel though - you make a good point.

With regards to price, we are looking at £575 now. Do you think thatís more reasonable? Iím not sure how much itís worth as donít see many of them about. Corimas and FFWDís come around on second hand a lot more often for similar or slightly more money.
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Old 01-21-19, 02:56 PM
  #5453  
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If it were me, I'd rather have the 5-spoke. It's a more versatile wheel than a front disc, even if it may not be quite as fast as a front disc.
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Old 01-21-19, 03:25 PM
  #5454  
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Originally Posted by Kaben View Post
With regards to price, we are looking at £575 now. Do you think thatís more reasonable? Iím not sure how much itís worth as donít see many of them about. Corimas and FFWDís come around on second hand a lot more often for similar or slightly more money.
I think you need to decide what you are going to use it for. I only race 500 TT and Team Sprint these days. I only use a front disc if I am indoor. I don't even own one at this point; I borrow it if the race, like the upcoming Master's Natz, is going to be inside. I train at Carson indoor, use a FF 90 for everything but race days.

My wife was a Master's pursuit WC, and she only used her front disc outside once, at Master's Natz in Colorado Springs many years ago. It was in the evening just after a thunderstorm, and the wind was absolutely still. Under those conditions, she was able to win the silver in the 500 (Master's Natz), beating some sprinters who were using 5 spoke or 3 spoke wheels. Just to be safe, I went to the start line holding her Zipp front spoked wheel to change if the breeze came up. Her coach and still talk about the time we took the risk and it paid off. A day or so later she set a PR and won the 2000 TT with her spoked front wheel. Just to brag a little, that year she was flying, winning State Championship, Natz Championship, and World's in the 2000 that year. I wish I could have been that good. Oh, BTW, she did all that and is only 5'5 and 100 lbs. It seems someone put a big engine in that little body!

I agree with others that the 5 spoke may be the wheel you want if you plan to ride a lot on an indoor track.
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Old 01-21-19, 04:38 PM
  #5455  
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Kaben, a 5 spoke isn't automatically fast.

Here is a 5 spoke that can be had for $500 new and comes in front a rear. Why don't people buy this?



Ask yourself, "If 5-spokes are fast, then why don't triathletes and road TT specialists use them?"

80mm deep lenticular wheels are proven (with wind tunnel "receipts").

Front discs can be very difficult to manage even with moderate wind gusts. They can be helpful in ideal conditions...and detrimental in less-than-ideal conditions (read: make you slower).


I think I'm gonna sponsor a proper scientific study to articulate and enumerate how "fast" a 5 spoke really is. I'm surprised that no one has done this being that the IO is literally the most expensive bicycle wheel on the market at $4,000 USD.
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Old 01-21-19, 04:39 PM
  #5456  
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Originally Posted by rensho3 View Post
I had the same problem, and then found out that while you can't see it on the display, it will calculate and is visible when you download the data and use Golden Cheetah
thank you!
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Old 01-22-19, 05:06 AM
  #5457  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Kaben, a 5 spoke isn't automatically fast.

Here is a 5 spoke that can be had for $500 new and comes in front a rear. Why don't people buy this?



Ask yourself, "If 5-spokes are fast, then why don't triathletes and road TT specialists use them?"

80mm deep lenticular wheels are proven (with wind tunnel "receipts").

Front discs can be very difficult to manage even with moderate wind gusts. They can be helpful in ideal conditions...and detrimental in less-than-ideal conditions (read: make you slower).


I think I'm gonna sponsor a proper scientific study to articulate and enumerate how "fast" a 5 spoke really is. I'm surprised that no one has done this being that the IO is literally the most expensive bicycle wheel on the market at $4,000 USD.

I'm just here for the Aerospoke references It's like the early 90's all over again.

Send me an iO and an iO Rio and I'll test them next time I'm in the tunnel.

All the data I've ever seen suggests that for a carbon spoked wheel, 3 is the magic number. (The original dupont/specialized/hed3, the new PRO and H3+, and soon the 3spoke from Aerocoach - maybe the 3G from Mavic as well, but I've never seen any data from them) unless the crazy claims made by the 2spoke company turn out to be true.

Last edited by Morelock; 01-22-19 at 08:01 AM.
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Old 01-22-19, 05:38 AM
  #5458  
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Only in regards to Zipp disc longevity - Another racing on an old Zipp disc; a Zipp Predator which was their first disk before the 1150 and 950. The wheel structure is still great, just needed the hub rebonded to the wheel as the glue can eventually fail. But that is only an issue for a rear wheel given forced from pedaling. In regards to parts availablity, the hubs are simple and any machine shop could make replacements.

PS was also still pursuiting on a set of Fluidisk's!
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Old 01-23-19, 02:07 AM
  #5459  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Kaben, a 5 spoke isn't automatically fast.

Ask yourself, "If 5-spokes are fast, then why don't triathletes and road TT specialists use them?"

80mm deep lenticular wheels are proven (with wind tunnel "receipts").

Front discs can be very difficult to manage even with moderate wind gusts. They can be helpful in ideal conditions...and detrimental in less-than-ideal conditions (read: make you slower).
Front disc would definitely be for indoor use only. Im fortunate enough that my "local" velodrome is indoor (London Lee Valley) and all major competition in the UK is indoor too. It would mean that i couldn't use the disc for summer races at Herne Hill as its often windy there but I'm less concerned about this as this will be off season training. Im not 100% convinced that a 5 spoke will have significant aero benefit over the 60mm deep rims i already own. ( actually just double checked, they are 55mm but thats broadly the same). Someone did bring up the fact that the forks on a Dolan DF4 ( alpina wing forks) are narrow and may not play well with the turbulence produced from a 5 spoke as the blades pass through the fork legs?
In the same breath, the FFWD/corima/mavic 5 spoke wheels look bloody fantastic and i do wonder whether i would benefit from the stiffness benefit during sprints. Its dangerous - i am in the process of remortgaging my house so I could get a bit naughty and buy lots of bike parts but i need to keep myself in check and not waste my house equity haha.

Originally Posted by Dalai View Post
Only in regards to Zipp disc longevity - Another racing on an old Zipp disc; a Zipp Predator which was their first disk before the 1150 and 950. The wheel structure is still great, just needed the hub rebonded to the wheel as the glue can eventually fail. But that is only an issue for a rear wheel given forced from pedaling. In regards to parts availablity, the hubs are simple and any machine shop could make replacements.

PS was also still pursuiting on a set of Fluidisk's!
Thanks for the info - thats very encouraging for this zipp disc then!
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Old 01-23-19, 05:00 AM
  #5460  
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fwiw, the wide/narrow fork crown / aerodynamics gets thrown around some but is largely speculation and doesn't seem to "trend" with the exception of forks designed specifically around a wheel. If memory serves, a lot of this talk came from something Vroomen said many, many years ago about a narrow fork being bad with a trispoke. I believe in that specific context he was talking about the wider (and poorly performing in general) Zipp 3000 trispoke though. There was also an old steel schwinn fork from the 70's that supposedly tested better than any of the (at the time current ~10-15 years ago) aero forks. That makes some sense as while that fork had a wider crown, it was also very flat bladed so minimal frontal area. MDT made a fork that was a similar design (2009 cervelo P3T's for some track team had them)

If you look at GBsquad, even the secret squirrels can't seem to nail down whether wide/narrow is better across the board. (So, just my opinion, but don't let that sway your decision)
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Old 02-02-19, 05:05 PM
  #5461  
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Plyos for track

Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Ask the questions that you were always wondering about but were afraid to ask or that didn't necessitate their own thread.

Wondering what a word means?
Wondering why athletes do seemingly weird things?
Wondering why track equipment is similar but different that road equipment?
Wondering if something is worth the time/hassle/money?

Have a question? Have an answer? Post it here.
Hi Guys,

Thanks for all of your help so far

Im now accredited, doing sqtís and enjoying getting into track and realizing how fast everyone is and how I need to get fitter and lighter, which iím working on. But loving it 😊

Just a quick question, Iíve read all the info on here about training and iím lifting and on the bike.

I just wondered if anyone on here is doing plyos (box jumps, jump squats) or has done and if you feel they help with power and acceleration on the bike.

Thanks

Chris
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Old 02-02-19, 08:44 PM
  #5462  
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Originally Posted by ChrisRob01 View Post


Hi Guys,

Thanks for all of your help so far

Im now accredited, doing sqt’s and enjoying getting into track and realizing how fast everyone is and how I need to get fitter and lighter, which i’m working on. But loving it ��

Just a quick question, I’ve read all the info on here about training and i’m lifting and on the bike.

I just wondered if anyone on here is doing plyos (box jumps, jump squats) or has done and if you feel they help with power and acceleration on the bike.

Thanks

Chris

Every sprinter has done something like that, and still does. Plyometrics have their place in a training plan, and you need to be fit enough, and strong enough to do them. Plyos are very hard on the body's tissues. You are inducing a stretch reflex to generate more power than you otherwise could without it. Plyometric body weight exercises could easily produce 2.5x bodyweight of force on your tissues. Plyometrics, even just bodyweight, should be done once you have exited the novice weighlifting stages. In the past I always advised to wait until one could squat 1.5x bodyweight for 5 reps, in a solid fashion.

And yes, they do help.
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Old 02-02-19, 08:46 PM
  #5463  
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Hey guys, any idea where to looking for 160 or shorter crankset for JIS squaretaper BB?

I don't want to chop and modify it. Thanks.

Or I could simple use new modern BB right away? I doubt about compatible.

Currently use Miche Premato 144bcd JIS sqauretaper BSA threaded (I think).

Last edited by Altimis; 02-02-19 at 08:51 PM.
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Old 02-03-19, 12:31 PM
  #5464  
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Originally Posted by Altimis View Post
Hey guys, any idea where to looking for 160 or shorter crankset for JIS squaretaper BB?

I don't want to chop and modify it. Thanks.

Or I could simple use new modern BB right away? I doubt about compatible.

Currently use Miche Premato 144bcd JIS sqauretaper BSA threaded (I think).
I went down this rabbit hole last fall looking for sub 165mm cranks.

There are several BMX or fixie cranks that are JIS square taper but they are for 110 BCD chain rings.

https://www.ebay.com/b/Cranksets/109...%7C140mm&rt=nc

You can get a 110 bcd to 144 bcd adapter, but not sure what that will do to the chainline.

Track Parts-ADAPTOR

The only track specific crank set I found was the Rotor ALDHU. It has a 30 mm spindle, but the BB is for BSA 68 shells.

https://rotoramerica.com/products/aldhu-track

If you want a power meter, then you can get the Rotor with a Power2Max spider.

https://power2max.cc/collections/aldhu#
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Old 02-03-19, 07:24 PM
  #5465  
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Originally Posted by gl98115 View Post
I went down this rabbit hole last fall looking for sub 165mm cranks.

There are several BMX or fixie cranks that are JIS square taper but they are for 110 BCD chain rings.

https://www.ebay.com/b/Cranksets/109...%7C140mm&rt=nc

You can get a 110 bcd to 144 bcd adapter, but not sure what that will do to the chainline.

Track Parts-ADAPTOR

The only track specific crank set I found was the Rotor ALDHU. It has a 30 mm spindle, but the BB is for BSA 68 shells.

https://rotoramerica.com/products/aldhu-track

If you want a power meter, then you can get the Rotor with a Power2Max spider.

https://power2max.cc/collections/aldhu#
Totally appreciated for answer, I am looking at ALDHU as well but I doubt about BB compatible.

Let's alone chainline doubtful. Thanks again.
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Old 02-03-19, 08:37 PM
  #5466  
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Originally Posted by Altimis View Post
Totally appreciated for answer, I am looking at ALDHU as well but I doubt about BB compatible.
What type of bottom bracket shell are you trying to fit? The Rotor BSA30 Track bottom bracket fits the standard BSA 68 threaded shell and works with the ALDHU Track crankset and axle.

https://rotoramerica.com/collections...ts/bsa30-track
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Old 02-03-19, 09:50 PM
  #5467  
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I have the Miche Monolithic crankset for my daughter in 145mm. But it has the massive PITA 116BCD. Ok for the next year and a half until she ages up and then finding the right chainring for her will likely be a problem
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Old 02-03-19, 09:58 PM
  #5468  
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Originally Posted by gl98115 View Post
What type of bottom bracket shell are you trying to fit? The Rotor BSA30 Track bottom bracket fits the standard BSA 68 threaded shell and works with the ALDHU Track crankset and axle.

https://rotoramerica.com/collections...ts/bsa30-track
My BB is standard BSA68 squaretaper 103mm length. So this is it.

Thank you very much, I will take a look now.
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Old 02-05-19, 10:45 AM
  #5469  
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Originally Posted by Altimis View Post
My BB is standard BSA68 squaretaper 103mm length. So this is it.

Thank you very much, I will take a look now.
I just put on a Rotor Aldhu 150 mm crank arm with 30 mm axel set up for BSA 68 BB. It works very well.
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Old 02-05-19, 11:40 AM
  #5470  
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Originally Posted by rensho3 View Post
I just put on a Rotor Aldhu 150 mm crank arm with 30 mm axel set up for BSA 68 BB. It works very well.
How's the chainline on it?
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Old 02-06-19, 11:06 AM
  #5471  
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What are some good brands of bibs when you have got some butt and thighs? Most seem tailored to fit slimmer bodies.
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Old 02-06-19, 04:34 PM
  #5472  
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Originally Posted by tobukog View Post
How's the chainline on it?
The chain line is good. No problems.
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Old 02-07-19, 05:29 PM
  #5473  
brawlo
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Originally Posted by liverunbike View Post
What are some good brands of bibs when you have got some butt and thighs? Most seem tailored to fit slimmer bodies.
I don't have enormous dimensions, but they are big just by virtue of my 6'5" frame. I have bibs from Pearl Izumi, Sugoi, DeMarchi, Castelli and Shimano. I had some nice Castelli bibs and accordingly invested in a new pair and the new ones were way tighter for the same size, same model (Velocissimo I think). I have a friend with serious Forsti size legs and he has Champion Systems club kit that fits ok, but he has also removed the gripper bit at the bottom of the leg on some kit to make it a better fit
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Old 02-08-19, 05:08 AM
  #5474  
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I found "the black bibs" to be pretty big compared to my Castelli/Rapha stuff. At least the cham was.

At $40 they aren't too big of an investment if they don't work (and actually really nice bibs if they work for you)
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Old 02-14-19, 09:02 PM
  #5475  
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Any Australian members know what happened to all the ex-national team BT's? Just curious.
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