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Old 11-11-14, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by carleton
Adding road gears was Mike Dancel's idea. I never did many track training efforts on the road. My road bike was for easy rides mostly. I'm glad to see you guys getting use out of it.

I'm open to feedback, most of which eventually makes it into the app. Right now I'm adding the option to indicate which tire size you are using for precise calculation based on Mark Tyson's suggestion. Basically it's only 1% difference, but for the athletes he coaches, they train all year for a 1% gain...so precision is important.
I think that would be a good thing to add and get out of the way. What's the name of your app?
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Old 11-12-14, 11:18 PM
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Should I get a custom wheel set made, or just get mavic ellipse's? Custom wouldn't be fancy or special. Clinchers, training and racing double duty.

If custom, what rim/hub combo? I'm about 225lbs.

Anything special about the mavics I should know about?
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Old 11-13-14, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by derek.fulmer
Should I get a custom wheel set made, or just get mavic ellipse's? Custom wouldn't be fancy or special. Clinchers, training and racing double duty.

If custom, what rim/hub combo? I'm about 225lbs.

Anything special about the mavics I should know about?
I was going to buy a set of ellipses but I read somewhere (on this forum I think) that there are no serrations on the axle nuts that face the inside frame dropouts and may slip under load. Is this true?
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Old 11-13-14, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by 700wheel
I was going to buy a set of ellipses but I read somewhere (on this forum I think) that there are no serrations on the axle nuts that face the inside frame dropouts and may slip under load. Is this true?
I dont think the spoke count is high enough for me any way.

Anyone have any thoughts on H+ Son archetypes for entry level racing? Im sure theure fine for training.

Kinlin? Velocity? Two other brands suggested to me.
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Old 11-13-14, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by WhatsYoCadence
I think that would be a good thing to add and get out of the way. What's the name of your app?
My apps can be found here: https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/c...ll/id925659196

Originally Posted by derek.fulmer
Should I get a custom wheel set made, or just get mavic ellipse's? Custom wouldn't be fancy or special. Clinchers, training and racing double duty.

If custom, what rim/hub combo? I'm about 225lbs.

Anything special about the mavics I should know about?
You don't need a custom set of wheels. I weigh more than you and Ellipse have worked for me (even with only 20 spokes) or any 32 spoke wheels really.

Originally Posted by 700wheel
I was going to buy a set of ellipses but I read somewhere (on this forum I think) that there are no serrations on the axle nuts that face the inside frame dropouts and may slip under load. Is this true?
The lack of serrations seem to allow the axle the spin when you are tightening the wheel on to the frame. This has nothing to do with whether the wheel will slip under load or not. I've never had an Ellipse slip under load.

They are pretty fast wheels, too. I once set a PB flying 200M on them. They are great for use as training/race wheels. I own a set right now.

Originally Posted by derek.fulmer
I dont think the spoke count is high enough for me any way.

Anyone have any thoughts on H+ Son archetypes for entry level racing? Im sure theure fine for training.

Kinlin? Velocity? Two other brands suggested to me.
Just buy some pre-built wheels. You don't *need* custom wheels. Buying custom track clincher wheels is luxury, not a necessity. If you were going tubular, then your options are sorta limited. But, for clinchers, there are LOTS of inexpensive pre-built sets out there. Go to velomine.com.
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Old 11-13-14, 08:35 AM
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Is there a huge reason why you would want 50/16 over 47/15? They're pretty close in gear-inches, so in theory it shouldn't matter, yes?
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Old 11-13-14, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by mukman
Is there a huge reason why you would want 50/16 over 47/15? They're pretty close in gear-inches, so in theory it shouldn't matter, yes?

This has been discussed at a bit of length somewhere here before - someone may be able to point you to the thread. Basically there are folk who say there is no different, and folk who have a distinct preference for what combination takes them to a particular ratio.
For the latter group, sprinters or any rider needing to make quick accelerations would theoretically favor the 47/15 (small/small) combo - less chain links for an overall lighter chain, and smaller cog and ring for both less turning mass, and (possibly? i may have my physics wrong), better leverage at the crank - these factors make for a 'snappier' drive train that can accelerate just that little bit better, as there is not as much momentum.

And drive train momentum would be the same reason the large/ large combo would be theoretically preferred by pursuiters; it might not get up to speed as quickly, but when it is you have a bit of a fly wheel effect. Additionally, the more open link angles where the chain wraps around the cog and chain ring give slightly less friction

Differences are obviously very small. I'm not sure if i would feel the difference, but some folk can.
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Old 11-13-14, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by mukman
Is there a huge reason why you would want 50/16 over 47/15? They're pretty close in gear-inches, so in theory it shouldn't matter, yes?
Some people say some things about how you should use the largest possible combinations. I don't know. Always sounds like witchcraft to me.

From what I can see there's a .2 GI difference between 50/16 and 47/15, so no, there's not a huge reason, but there's a .2GI reason. Sometimes you need something a hair larger or smaller.
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Old 11-13-14, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by mukman
Is there a huge reason why you would want 50/16 over 47/15? They're pretty close in gear-inches, so in theory it shouldn't matter, yes?
In theory yes, but in practice, no. The problem comes with having enough chain to put on warmup gears and race gears. Certain gear combinations take up a little chain and others take a lot of chain. After you do this for a while, you'll find a "family" of gear combinations that will allow you to warmup and race without having to change your chain. Changing chains is a pain when you are exhausted between efforts.

Also, both of the gears you list are warmup gears.
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Old 11-13-14, 09:37 AM
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Ok cool, I'll do 47/15 for now since I already own the 15 and it's easier to find a 47 than a 50 here. I understand these are warm-up gears, I am just starting at the velodrome and trying to get through their introductory trainings. I kind of doubt I will race this season, maybe I will just be training.
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Old 11-13-14, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by mukman
Ok cool, I'll do 47/15 for now since I already own the 15 and it's easier to find a 47 than a 50 here. I understand these are warm-up gears, I am just starting at the velodrome and trying to get through their introductory trainings. I kind of doubt I will race this season, maybe I will just be training.
I've found that for beginners, there is a smart order in which you should buy your gears in order to maximize usage. Kinda like when you get your first professional job and need a basic wardrobe on a budget. Some things you'll use a lot, so buy those first.

https://www.bikeforums.net/track-cycl...l#post13581017
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Old 11-13-14, 10:43 AM
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I'm in a bike shop now and apparently American Classic makes a track wheel just like the Ellipse with 20 bladed spokes. I'm looking at them on a Langster. They are probably cheaper than Ellipse. They are nice.

They have weird locks on the nuts though. Or it's a one sided cinching system. Weird for sure.
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Old 11-13-14, 10:44 AM
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It also has an Izumi V chain. Odd.
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Old 11-13-14, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by carleton
My apps can be found here: https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/c...ll/id925659196



You don't need a custom set of wheels. I weigh more than you and Ellipse have worked for me (even with only 20 spokes) or any 32 spoke wheels really.



The lack of serrations seem to allow the axle the spin when you are tightening the wheel on to the frame. This has nothing to do with whether the wheel will slip under load or not. I've never had an Ellipse slip under load.

They are pretty fast wheels, too. I once set a PB flying 200M on them. They are great for use as training/race wheels. I own a set right now.



Just buy some pre-built wheels. You don't *need* custom wheels. Buying custom track clincher wheels is luxury, not a necessity. If you were going tubular, then your options are sorta limited. But, for clinchers, there are LOTS of inexpensive pre-built sets out there. Go to velomine.com.

Thanks carleton. When i say custom, i definitely don't mean super expensive or exotic. I just mean choosing the right rim/hub/spoke pattern & spoke type for my needs. I have a great relationship with velomine and will likely go through them or Psimet who is local to me.
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Old 11-13-14, 04:18 PM
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What are some well respected track frames for racing?

Where do all the high end fixed gear frames (cinelli, all-city, dodici.. etc) stand up?
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Old 11-13-14, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by WhatsYoCadence
What are some well respected track frames for racing?

Where do all the high end fixed gear frames (cinelli, all-city, dodici.. etc) stand up?
Read here: https://www.bikeforums.net/track-cycl...ete-bikes.html

As far as your second question goes:

That is too broad. This isn't the fixed-gear forum. You should ask over there: Singlespeed & Fixed Gear

I know you are curious about a lot of stuff, but specific questions get specific answers. Don't expect us to do a brain dump of info to satisfy a passing curiosity.
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Old 11-13-14, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by carleton
....specific questions get specific answers. Don't expect us to do a brain dump of info to satisfy a passing curiosity.
Carleton, mind if I borrow that?
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Old 11-13-14, 08:13 PM
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Hahaha! OK, I'll take a crack at it:

How do all the high end fixed gear frames (cinelli, all-city, dodici.. etc) stand up?


The high end stuff is generally well respected.
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Old 11-13-14, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by carleton
I'm in a bike shop now and apparently American Classic makes a track wheel just like the Ellipse with 20 bladed spokes. I'm looking at them on a Langster. They are probably cheaper than Ellipse. They are nice.

They have weird locks on the nuts though. Or it's a one sided cinching system. Weird for sure.

The Ammy Cs generally go 650-750 on eBay.

The downsides you listed aside, Theyre lighter than the ellipses by about 200 gram and the hubs are so smooth. They're tough as nails too, 230lbs when I was using them for hipster alley cat duty.

I can't speak highly enough about them. Besides that one sided rear.
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Old 11-14-14, 12:58 AM
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Has/ does anyone use pre-work out suppliments, specifically those with Nitric Oxide? And if so, would that be only for weight-training or sprint training, or has anyone found benefits for general track training?
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Old 11-14-14, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Velocirapture
Has/ does anyone use pre-work out suppliments, specifically those with Nitric Oxide? And if so, would that be only for weight-training or sprint training, or has anyone found benefits for general track training?
Relevant BroScience video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmmZULPUEkQ

Supplements should be used to 'supplement' that which is missing or lacking. Taking an untargetted supplement with not known ingredients doesn't fit that bill, and I think is a bit scary.

Do you already have your diet, sleep, training and coaching dialed in? If not, I'd focus on getting those dialed in before worrying about supplementation.

Note to self: I should dial in my diet, sleep and training...
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Old 11-14-14, 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by TurtleRacer
Relevant BroScience video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmmZULPUEkQ

Supplements should be used to 'supplement' that which is missing or lacking. Taking an untargetted supplement with not known ingredients doesn't fit that bill, and I think is a bit scary.

Do you already have your diet, sleep, training and coaching dialed in? If not, I'd focus on getting those dialed in before worrying about supplementation.

Note to self: I should dial in my diet, sleep and training...
Supplements work. Creatine monohydrate, among others, works.

Maybe Velocorapture has dialed in diet, sleep, training and coaching. Is that your business? The question was about supplements.
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Old 11-14-14, 04:51 AM
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I've found Creatine to be great for the gym, though the amount I had to take was quite high and it wasn't cheap. It definitely made recovery between sets much, much better, and I had a lot more energy afterwards. I got 2 months worth for free through work, and used it when I started going to the gym earlier this year, so there may have been some easy novice gains in the mix as well, but if I was going to look at supplements it'd definitely be on the top of the list.
Rugby players at my school were all over it, especially the positions where you can't bulk too much, but they needed to increase strength as much as possible (think school boys playing grown adults at club level).
Can't talk too much about the effect on on - the - bike training, since I was taking it during winter and our velodrome was closed for refurbishment.

edit; perhaps ask in the weightlifting thread? There are some quite experienced guys in there that may not check this thread as much.
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Old 11-14-14, 06:43 AM
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Thanks for the responses thus far.
I'm specifically interested in the effects of NO, either as a direct supplement or via the precursor, Argenine... but probably better to ask in the weightlifting thread, thanks Minion1
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Old 11-16-14, 02:24 AM
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Does anybody do any sprinting of the running form to supplement their training? Or is it not transferable?
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