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Track Tire Questions

Old 01-16-17, 11:58 AM
  #201  
Voodoo76
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I'm going to be using a convertible Disc (Boyd) on a TT bike and occasionally on the track (Outdoor Cement). I'm looking for a compromise tire. How are Conti Sprinters these days? In the past (90's) I had a lot of issues with the base tape separating, is that still an issue?
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Old 01-16-17, 01:29 PM
  #202  
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These have been a fairly trust worthy tire since the late 90's early 00's. Mostly a training tub or a racing tube for heavier riders or ones that needed a more durable tire. Never experienced any problems in the 10 years that I ran them on my wheels.
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Old 01-16-17, 02:33 PM
  #203  
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Originally Posted by Voodoo76 View Post
I'm looking for a compromise tire. How are Conti Sprinters
My Zipp disc is only used for track racing but mostly used on concrete and I've been very happy using Vittoria Evo CX road tyres. I've used this wheel indoors on timber too and found it stuck to the boards and rolled well.
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Old 01-16-17, 05:34 PM
  #204  
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Appreciate the feedback! I'll have to take a long look at the CX. That was my road tire of choice for a long time.
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Old 01-17-17, 12:04 AM
  #205  
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Originally Posted by Voodoo76 View Post
Appreciate the feedback! I'll have to take a long look at the CX. That was my road tire of choice for a long time.
Still is mine as I have a number of these waiting to be used...
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Old 02-13-17, 01:17 AM
  #206  
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Can anyone give me a direct comparison of a Vittoria Pista Evo CS vs a Continental Sonderklasse on the boards? Thanks.
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Old 02-14-17, 03:39 PM
  #207  
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Originally Posted by thearthurdog View Post
Can anyone give me a direct comparison of a Vittoria Pista Evo CS vs a Continental Sonderklasse on the boards? Thanks.

I have used both, both work well, although I found the sonderklasse to be more fragile, requiring me to deflate after every ride or they might pop. The latex tube in the Pista Evo takes care of that for me by leaking enough in a day that I have to add a lot of air each day I ride.


As for performance, I have not sensed a difference in their rolling resistance, but I do like the "comfort" of the ride on the Pista Evo more than the sonderklasse.
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Old 02-14-17, 03:49 PM
  #208  
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Originally Posted by rensho3 View Post
I have used both, both work well, although I found the sonderklasse to be more fragile, requiring me to deflate after every ride or they might pop. The latex tube in the Pista Evo takes care of that for me by leaking enough in a day that I have to add a lot of air each day I ride.


As for performance, I have not sensed a difference in their rolling resistance, but I do like the "comfort" of the ride on the Pista Evo more than the sonderklasse.
Excellent, thanks - so if I had one of each, and had to put one on a front disc and one on a rear disc, I am guessing you would say put the Vittoria on the rear?
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Old 02-15-17, 12:02 PM
  #209  
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Originally Posted by thearthurdog View Post
Excellent, thanks - so if I had one of each, and had to put one on a front disc and one on a rear disc, I am guessing you would say put the Vittoria on the rear?

Uhh, I'm not that picky. Since you are more likely to use the rear more than the front (wind, you know) I would put the Vittoria on the back. But that's just because I like the way it feels.
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Old 02-27-17, 09:39 AM
  #210  
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Does anyone have experience with the S-Works Turbo track tubular? I'll be racing 80% on outdoor wood, but occasionally on outdoor concrete.

I loved the set of Turbos I had on the road bike last year.
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Old 05-01-17, 12:43 PM
  #211  
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No idea on the S Works, i was going to order them but the shop that my team works with to stock them is really far away. I went with Vittoria Pista CS Elite for this year. I have the Veloflex Record on my now training wheels that I raced last year and just echoes of what everyone else has said about them - they are amazing. The Tubular version was another $40 more than the Vittorias.
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Old 05-10-17, 02:28 PM
  #212  
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Vittoria Pista EVO CS is no longer available as Vittoria has changed their whole line up around. According to their web site, from the tech descriptions, the only model suitable for outdoor concrete tracks is the Pista Control and it weighs in at 250 grams. The Pista Speed looks like a good tire and it's fairly light in the 23 size, but the tech specs say it's a good all around indoor tire. Do they not make a lighter weight race tire for concrete comparable to the Pista Evo CS anymore?
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Old 05-10-17, 05:30 PM
  #213  
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Originally Posted by JimiMimni View Post
Does anyone have experience with the S-Works Turbo track tubular? I'll be racing 80% on outdoor wood, but occasionally on outdoor concrete.

I loved the set of Turbos I had on the road bike last year.
I would trust any high-quality tire from Specialized, and expect it to be really effin' good. I had a set of Turbo 2 clinchers, and have a set of All-round 2 tubulars on my road wheels. Never used their cotton but they get rave reviews.
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Old 07-31-17, 09:18 AM
  #214  
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25mm and even 28mm tires are all the rage on the road and TT scenes thees days and have been so for a couple of years now.

Track riding is significantly different:
- We often ride on the side of the tires when moving slower than the optimal speeds for a given track.
- We experience lateral forces often (every corner) and at high speeds, these forces can be great.

Have these larger tires made their way into mainstream or high-level track racing?

I've noticed that the Mavic Io's rim bed is now wider. The recommended tire width used to be 19mm. Now the website states, "Recommended tire sizes: 21 to 28 mm". I believe the rim bed is actually wider now. (I haven't seen one up close to confirm.)

I've been visiting bike shops looking for high-end clinchers for my training wheels in 23mm and one guy actually said, "Pfffft...why would you want something so skinny?"

Thoughts?


One reason I ask is that when diving into turns at high speeds (imagine a flying 200M on a 250M track), I've experienced "thread squirm" with some tires where I can feel the tire wavering laterally on itself. I wonder if that would be exacerbated with bigger tires.

Last edited by carleton; 07-31-17 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 07-31-17, 03:39 PM
  #215  
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I don't think I'd want to go bigger than 23 on the track. From what I understand, the main reasons for using wider tires on the road are comfort (wider tire at lower PSI absorbs significantly more road vibration) and rolling resistance (wider tires effectively have a "shorter" contact area with the road). The comfort benefit seems pretty irrelevant, and I'm not sure how the rolling resistance thing would translate on a banked track.
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Old 07-31-17, 05:11 PM
  #216  
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I've seen some guys using 25's on the track, and the Soyo's used in Japan are about that big, and have been the same for generations. Not saying it's better, but it is established. For myself, I always chose the 22mm Vittoria's over the 19's.
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Old 07-31-17, 05:37 PM
  #217  
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I know a rider who set some world records on 25s, but, ymmv.
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Old 07-31-17, 06:01 PM
  #218  
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<23mm tires will give you the best aero performance used with the vast majority of wheels out there these days. The actual width of your tire needs to be smaller than that of your rim for optimal aerodynamics.

Only just recently have wheels come out that are actually optimized aerodynamically for 25mm tires. The previous generation of "wide" rims like firecrest with ~25mm rim widths were designed to match 23mm tires.

Rolling resistance gains for wider tires is mostly due to the advantages of using lower pressures when riding on real world surfaces. On very smooth surfaces like a track higher pressures will yield lower rolling resistance making wider tires a negligible gain in performance for that application.

Wider tires of the same model will give you better grip which could be a concern on some track surfaces or for especially powerful riders but other than that I haven't seen any compelling evidence to switch from my veloflex or vittoria tires that measure ~21mm in actual width.

FWIW I ride 25c tires exclusively on the road for both training and racing.
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Old 07-31-17, 06:37 PM
  #219  
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Yeah, it seems like the speed improvements from the wider tires come from absorbing the bumps as opposed to fighting to get over them and losing minute amounts of forward momentum in the process for thousands of times in a ride. Not really sure if that's a factor on the track (even relatively bumpy ones).

I'd imagine that the lower pressures would make the sidewalls softer, relative to the pressure one would use for 22/23mm tires. Not sure if that's good for track. But, if you pumped them to the same pressures, then you'd get more sidewall (and theoretically) be able to ride slower with confidence.

That last part is the only upside I see.

I like a front tire to match the profile of the rim. So, if the rim is narrow, like the Io, then a 19mm tire. And if it's normal, 21mm. I like 22 on the rear. I've had 20 on a Zipp rear disc and I didn't like it.

What's hard is finding clinchers for training wheels that will go up to 140psi. Those are becoming more and more rare.

Last edited by carleton; 07-31-17 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 07-31-17, 07:04 PM
  #220  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post

What's hard is finding clinchers for training wheels that will go up to 140psi. Those are becoming more and more rare.
For the extreme in fat tire performance, you can go always move to tubulars with the 30mm wide Challenge Strada Bianca which is rated from 60 to 150psi. I have the 30mm clincher version on my gravel bike which max's out at 130 psi. I general pump them up to 110psi and forget about the pressure until they hit about 60-70psi.

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Old 07-31-17, 07:14 PM
  #221  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
I know a rider who set some world records on 25s, but, ymmv.
Probably the same guy I'm talking about, a certain bearded dude riding a LOOK too damn fast?
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Old 07-31-17, 07:19 PM
  #222  
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I used to ride 23 on the front and 25 on the back for my race wheels. At the time (~10 years ago), 25mm front and rear for my training wheels. I used TUFO or Continental for my race wheels, Vredestein Fortezza for my training clinchers. All of these were high pressure (140+ PSI) tires. On steeper tracks, the larger tires were helpful. I did notice a larger contact patch. I would maybe run them at about 125 psi for 25mm at Bromont or Rochester Hills. The coating on these tracks is a little slicker than bare wood, so having a larger contact patch helped. I found at 2/3rds bodyweight (0.66 psi/#BW) was the lower limit of squirm vs contact patch for me. 125-140 when I was racing on steep tracks. Concrete/less steep (like T-Town) and I would try to run 140-160 with the above mentioned 23/25mm combo. I found 23mm up front gave me a good, direct feel for what the front wheel was doing. 25mm is where things started to go a little "vague" for me. With wider/deeper rim beds, then 25mm would be well supported enough to regain that feel.

Last edited by taras0000; 07-31-17 at 09:57 PM.
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Old 07-31-17, 07:44 PM
  #223  
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
Probably the same guy I'm talking about, a certain bearded dude riding a LOOK too damn fast?
Nope. I'm talking about Casper, who's got masters WCs in the IP, TC, and scratch. Loves wide rims, 25s, and Specialized cotton.

He's my favorite.
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Old 07-31-17, 08:39 PM
  #224  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
Nope. I'm talking about Casper, who's got masters WCs in the IP, TC, and scratch. Loves wide rims, 25s, and Specialized cotton.

He's my favorite.
Ok there's two WR holders riding on fatties then!
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Old 08-03-17, 08:19 PM
  #225  
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Pro Tip:

When mounting tires (or paying to have them mounted) on directional track wheels like the FFWD or Mavic IO or single-sided rear wheels, arrange the label on the inside of the wheel not on the outside like this:



This is because that some tires mount the label high on the side. We often ride on the sides. The labels won't have as much grip as the non-labeled parts of the tire. So, when given the option, mount the tire such that the label is on the inside (left side).
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