2014 Weight Lifting!!!!
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My typical routine is 2x10 at a low weight and 3x5 at heavy weight. I personally would trade the 3x5 sets for more 10 rep sets.
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On a related note:
I've heard of weight training with reps according to time as opposed to rep count. Meaning: Do as many squats as you can for 20s as opposed to doing 5 reps to complete 1 set.
Any science or programs around that?
I've heard of weight training with reps according to time as opposed to rep count. Meaning: Do as many squats as you can for 20s as opposed to doing 5 reps to complete 1 set.
Any science or programs around that?
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aka mattio
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I would only consider this (any high rep scheme) if I gave up the bike. I don't believe in crossing the streams. Aerobic endurance: on bike. Anaerobic endurance: intervals on bike. Anaerobic power: weights.
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Are you familiar with the Tabata protocol? It's 20s high-intensity, 10s rest, repeat 8x. It can be applied to lots of things, including weight lifting I suppose - and there's some science on its effect on vo2max: Effects of moderate-intensity endurance and high-intensity intermittent training on anaerobic capacity and VO2max. - PubMed - NCBI ... but if weights are involved they'd have to be pretty low weights in order to be tolerable and the kind of intensity that tabata is about.
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So, basically it's a "lift heavy" for 20s then rest for a full recovery.
When you think about it, a 500M is about 10-15s of anaerobic work then the other energy systems take over.
When you think about it, a 500M is about 10-15s of anaerobic work then the other energy systems take over.
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Strength training offers a potent stimulus to ↘ fatigue during the last parts of a 10km run | By @YLMSportScience
You enduro nerds should go lift things up and put them down.
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I'm too lazy to find the real study, but based on that infographic I think they increased training load for one group and maintained it for the control. That means they proved that increasing training works. They would have needed to provide an equal increase in aerobic training time in the control group to prove that lifting weights works better.
This is a lot of why coaching tends to be in front of sports science, it's difficult to design good studies, most of them use whatever random college kids they can recruit, and it's tough to normalize different types of training stimulus to each other.
Edit: with love from an Enduro nerd who put in a ten week block of picking up and putting down heavy stuff more than riding
This is a lot of why coaching tends to be in front of sports science, it's difficult to design good studies, most of them use whatever random college kids they can recruit, and it's tough to normalize different types of training stimulus to each other.
Edit: with love from an Enduro nerd who put in a ten week block of picking up and putting down heavy stuff more than riding
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You are right that coaches probably have better insights into what works for trained athletes.
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Yeah, it's kind of funny actually, science will come along five or ten years behind a coaching advance and tell people why it worked, and at the same time wonder why coaches don't pay more attention to science.
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Ok, how do you guys define "heavy" for your lifts? I realized reading this that I'm a gym noob and haven't given it much thought beyond "I can lift this much 10 times and Y times this much 5 times and not die."
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I'm not singling out cycling coaches, it seems pretty consistent across all fields, though certainly strength coaches are a particularly ripe target considering most think they need to make something that is fairly simple into something much more complex to justify their role.
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But the coaches at the pointy end actually know what they're doing. They also tend to link up with applied scientists who recognize where real contributions can be made by science.
It was certainly a bit of a flippant comment, and I probably could be nicer about saying it, but the point does remain that coaching has more to teach science than vice versa about how to train optimal performance.
It was certainly a bit of a flippant comment, and I probably could be nicer about saying it, but the point does remain that coaching has more to teach science than vice versa about how to train optimal performance.
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But the coaches at the pointy end actually know what they're doing. They also tend to link up with applied scientists who recognize where real contributions can be made by science.
It was certainly a bit of a flippant comment, and I probably could be nicer about saying it, but the point does remain that coaching has more to teach science than vice versa about how to train optimal performance.
It was certainly a bit of a flippant comment, and I probably could be nicer about saying it, but the point does remain that coaching has more to teach science than vice versa about how to train optimal performance.
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I'm too lazy to find the real study, but based on that infographic I think they increased training load for one group and maintained it for the control. That means they proved that increasing training works. They would have needed to provide an equal increase in aerobic training time in the control group to prove that lifting weights works better.
This is a lot of why coaching tends to be in front of sports science, it's difficult to design good studies, most of them use whatever random college kids they can recruit, and it's tough to normalize different types of training stimulus to each other.
Edit: with love from an Enduro nerd who put in a ten week block of picking up and putting down heavy stuff more than riding
This is a lot of why coaching tends to be in front of sports science, it's difficult to design good studies, most of them use whatever random college kids they can recruit, and it's tough to normalize different types of training stimulus to each other.
Edit: with love from an Enduro nerd who put in a ten week block of picking up and putting down heavy stuff more than riding
Good point about increased total training load! It's also worth noting that runners (and any other sport that has eccentric loading, which is everything EXCEPT cycling) react much more to strength training (this is conjecture based on personal experience, and some older literature. I don't have a citation for it!) than the concentric-only pedal stroke we all use. Because running involves ground-reaction forces, which are eccentric contractions, small increases in strength can create larger increases in total efficiency. Almost every study I've found shows a moderate to strong correlation between increased strength and increased performance in endurance sports.
Ideally your coaching staff and sports science staff should be working together. Your example in the academic research is awkward. A lot of "health" studies get branded as "sports" just to get the paper published. (No citation for this either, but ermahgerd, it's a thing.) Combine that with some performance experts taking a keen interest in maintaining their advantage, and the data can sit for years before it gets published. Lastly, the differences between elite (truly elite, Olympians and World Champions) athletes and their peers is so fractionally small that most statistical analyses of their training and programming wouldn't show significant differences. Small sample sizes are generally the bane of research, and elite athletes are by definition a small sample.
Originally Posted by VanceMac
That's a bit of selection bias. I think the number of coaches who are clueless or (more likely) hopelessly entrenched in this or that conventional paradigm far, FAR outnumber ones who are genuinely at the forefront of their field.
I'm not singling out cycling coaches, it seems pretty consistent across all fields, though certainly strength coaches are a particularly ripe target considering most think they need to make something that is fairly simple into something much more complex to justify their role.
I'm not singling out cycling coaches, it seems pretty consistent across all fields, though certainly strength coaches are a particularly ripe target considering most think they need to make something that is fairly simple into something much more complex to justify their role.
Originally Posted by SprintzNKiloz
Ok, how do you guys define "heavy" for your lifts? I realized reading this that I'm a gym noob and haven't given it much thought beyond "I can lift this much 10 times and Y times this much 5 times and not die."
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Is a 25% strength gain across the board worth a 3-4% weight gain as a sprinter?
I'm getting back into track after a 26 year hiatus ( as a MM60). I started as a weight lifter before my last period of competitive cycling, and then went back to it for fitness. To return to cycling, I will let some upper body muscle mass disappear and focus on bringing my legs back up to former spec. I am currently between 7 and 8% body fat and am maxed out on strength at my current weight. From past experience, I know that if I let myself gain another 6 to 8lb, my lower body strength will go up by 25%. Is this worth doing, considering I will be focusing on match sprint and 500M TT? Where is the limit for diminishing returns?
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My 15 year old - 2014 (in line with thread topic). A roadie then. Looking to switch.
5 rep * 1,000lbs * 3 sets.
https://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...1&d=1474236735
5 rep * 1,000lbs * 3 sets.
https://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...1&d=1474236735
#698
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I'm getting back into track after a 26 year hiatus ( as a MM60). I started as a weight lifter before my last period of competitive cycling, and then went back to it for fitness. To return to cycling, I will let some upper body muscle mass disappear and focus on bringing my legs back up to former spec. I am currently between 7 and 8% body fat and am maxed out on strength at my current weight. From past experience, I know that if I let myself gain another 6 to 8lb, my lower body strength will go up by 25%. Is this worth doing, considering I will be focusing on match sprint and 500M TT? Where is the limit for diminishing returns?
A strength gain is not a power gain. Or, it is, but not 1:1. Can you maintain that %gain for the length of your event? Do you have the upper body and core and bike that can transmit that power?
If so, sure. Take that all day.
#699
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I'm getting back into track after a 26 year hiatus ( as a MM60). I started as a weight lifter before my last period of competitive cycling, and then went back to it for fitness. To return to cycling, I will let some upper body muscle mass disappear and focus on bringing my legs back up to former spec. I am currently between 7 and 8% body fat and am maxed out on strength at my current weight. From past experience, I know that if I let myself gain another 6 to 8lb, my lower body strength will go up by 25%. Is this worth doing, considering I will be focusing on match sprint and 500M TT? Where is the limit for diminishing returns?
Sprinters for the most part have been getting leaner over the years and drifting away from the "thunder thighs" look of the 80's and 90's. The trends have been more towards developing better 30s power than max wattage. On the other hand, as an MM60 racer, your events are going to be shorter, so max power is going to matter more to you than a younger racer.
Last edited by taras0000; 09-18-16 at 04:40 PM.
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What W/kg for 30s?
As my kid ages his 5 sec W/kg goes down and his 30s goes up a bit.