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Old 06-25-19, 03:25 AM
  #2476  
carleton
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Originally Posted by Poppit View Post
No, you misunderstand, just give the qualifying points to the national teams, the trade teams don't get any points at all, they just compete to win the event they are competing in.
Oh. Yeah, I misread what you wrote.

I don't think they give points to the trade teams. The points are attached to the Athlete. And by being assigned to the National Team roster, the National Team gets the points.

(If I understand correctly).

So, you are suggesting to give the points to the National Team based on Nationality even if that athlete is never selected to the National Team?

I can create a UCI Trade Team for the next season and assign myself as an Athlete. If I enter USA Elite Track Nationals and get 1 point for participating, are you saying that Team USA should get that point even if I am never assigned to the National Team?
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Old 06-25-19, 03:35 AM
  #2477  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Oh. Yeah, I misread what you wrote.

I don't think they give points to the trade teams. The points are attached to the Athlete. And by being assigned to the National Team roster, the National Team gets the points.

(If I understand correctly).

So, you are suggesting to give the points to the National Team based on Nationality even if that athlete is never selected to the National Team?

I can create a UCI Trade Team for the next season and assign myself as an Athlete. If I enter USA Elite Track Nationals and get 1 point for participating, are you saying that Team USA should get that point even if I am never assigned to the National Team?
The point Iím really making is that if the issue is the points system then re-design that, you donít necessarily have to destroy the trade teams to achieve that.
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Old 06-25-19, 04:22 AM
  #2478  
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Originally Posted by Poppit View Post
The point Iím really making is that if the issue is the points system then re-design that, you donít necessarily have to destroy the trade teams to achieve that.
That's fair.
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Old 06-25-19, 06:52 AM
  #2479  
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Originally Posted by taras0000 View Post
It is if you are trying to develop track cycling in countries other than France, GB, Australia, Netherlands, and NZ. Many, if not all Olympic/National federations base athlete funding on podium finishes at major events. If you;re the UCI and you're trying to broaden the track cycling market (China about 15 years ago, HK, Malaysia, Korea...) then you have to figure out a system that incentivizes them to participate, otherwise it just becomes the "Same Old Boys Club", and the less competitive nations won't support the sport.
This argument makes sense to me.

I also see the argument from the trade teams side, which also makes sense.

I think Carleton's examples highlight a bit of the issue. Unlike other sports, like the NBA or NHL, track cycling does not have national or international leagues in which trade teams can compete. For basketball, soccer (futbol), ice hockey, and road cycling, there are several professional leagues that employ athletes from around the world, who then come together on the national teams to compete in the World Cup or Olympics. Track cycling lacks that space, which is where a trade team really fits.
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Old 06-25-19, 07:26 AM
  #2480  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Well, using that idea of only letting the best athletes contest the Games:

- The Olympic baseball tournament will be comprised only of several Cuban, US, S. Korean, and Japanese teams (multiple teams each country)
- The Olympic basketball tournaments will be only multiple US teams.
- Gymnastics would only be US and RUS athletes.
- Table Tennis tournament would only be several Chinese athletes.

Could argue that this would make for better, more entertaining competition. Is Olympic basketball fun to watch?

And even so, while I get the importance of maintaining the competition of national teams format at the Olympic games, I don't see any reason why outside events should have to conform to the same format. These changes seem to turn the World Cup into a mini-Olympics, making them in many ways less interesting/exciting, and in a sport that already sees a dearth of good events to watch, I only see this making that problem worse.
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Old 06-25-19, 01:26 PM
  #2481  
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(I edited my analogy above so that it's more in line with how the Trade Team system works. Basically, the HS students keep their points and qualify for State by forming a team of players who scored the most points that season.)

Originally Posted by seau grateau View Post
Could argue that this would make for better, more entertaining competition. Is Olympic basketball fun to watch?

And even so, while I get the importance of maintaining the competition of national teams format at the Olympic games, I don't see any reason why outside events should have to conform to the same format. These changes seem to turn the World Cup into a mini-Olympics, making them in many ways less interesting/exciting, and in a sport that already sees a dearth of good events to watch, I only see this making that problem worse.
I think that's part of the problem...the fact that the World Cups serve 2 purposes:
- Qualifying for the World Championships (and moving the events around the globe to allow more access to qualifying events).
- Serve as a qualifying events for the Olympics.

The UCI was charged with developing the criteria for the Olympic Cycling events. I guess the single system doesn't serve both goals equally well.

Yes, Olympic basketball is boring. But, that's why we have the NBA, to see the best play the game.
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Old 06-25-19, 01:29 PM
  #2482  
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I think if you think of Olympic sports as the ultimate extension of all amateur sports (high school, college, AAU, etc...), then it makes sense.

...a little.
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Old 06-25-19, 08:17 PM
  #2483  
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What track cycling needs is a WC series and a "ProTour"series.

WCs being national only, where trade team riders can compete for their national team, and points earned are kept by the National Fed. 4 plus the World Championship events run every second month, from Sept-Apr/May, so as not to compete with the road season. It's not a schedule that's too overbearing for smaller nations, so you get more global representation.

ProTour, like the road series, is a commercialized series, basically an extension of the Six Day circuit/Revolution/Wheelraces/..., but qualifying points are not awarded. It's strictly a separate series where any rider can compete, under any banner, National or Trade. It doesn't need to have/follow a standard program, but recognizes winners/placings, and allows riders to build on those results. Race organizers can apply for ProTour status by meeting a prize purse threshold. Rider fields can be determined via invitation/application by/to organizer, or through local qualifying events, be they UCI events or otherwise.

Have a cumulative leader's competition in each series, exactly as the white WC jersey, with white jersey winners recieving a prize at the end of each series. Cash for the ProTour, and extra qualifying points for the WC series, sort of like double points in a final points race sprint.

Yes it creates parallels/duplication, but it gives the sport a chance to grow/globalize, reach new markets, while also giving the opportunity for the best to race each other in deeper/tighter/closer fields, without each series influencing the other. And yes, riders are already doing events for cash outside the UCI series, but at least not you can bring some organization and continuity to the season, by making each event count for something more than just the event by itself.

Last edited by taras0000; 06-25-19 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 06-27-19, 06:40 AM
  #2484  
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You can sign BEAT's open letter to the UCI protesting these proposals here:
https://www.beatcyclingclub.com/blog..._SSDfsYBqRK6t0
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Old 06-29-19, 08:38 PM
  #2485  
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I haven't seen these posted in here yet:



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Old 07-02-19, 05:20 PM
  #2486  
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Any press is good press?
https://www.velonews.com/2019/07/com...ckwards_495513
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Old 07-04-19, 12:18 PM
  #2487  
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2019 Junior and elite track national results here:
Event Schedule
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