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Old 11-17-17, 05:47 PM
  #751  
southernfox
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Mah baby.
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Old 11-17-17, 06:58 PM
  #752  
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Someone's ready to go fast!
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Old 11-18-17, 09:53 AM
  #753  
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Very nice!
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Old 11-18-17, 10:42 AM
  #754  
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Those TC1s seem like great, affordable bikes. Like if it were racing season and I damaged my bike today, I'd order one of those tomorrow.
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Old 11-18-17, 10:47 AM
  #755  
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Yeah, it's a great entry level that doesn't feel like an entry level bike. My next will probably be a fuji elite
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Old 11-18-17, 11:22 AM
  #756  
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Originally Posted by southernfox View Post
Yeah, it's a great entry level that doesn't feel like an entry level bike. My next will probably be a fuji elite
It's a solid bike.

Unsolicited advice: Spend money to solve problems and meet desires. Take note of what you like and don't like about this one and make sure that it's addressed in the new frame.

I'd imagine that you'd want something with a slightly shorter head tube maybe to give you the option of going lower without using an erogstem.

The Fuji is nice and has a great geometry.
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Old 11-24-17, 08:02 PM
  #757  
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New bike to replace the too small DF3 I had.
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Old 11-27-17, 06:37 PM
  #758  
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Nice ride! How do you like the cranks? What BB did you use?
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Old 11-27-17, 11:25 PM
  #759  
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In general I like them. It seems like Vision only forge one length of crank arms and just drill the pedal holes at different spot for either 165 or 170 so the 165 arms look strange compared to 165 Dura-Ace. The chainring bolts are the spinning type that are annoying to deal with. Haven't received yet the Dura-Ace knurled chainring bolts but I see no reason why they wouldn't work.

I used the FSA steel BSA bottom bracket but any BSA bottom bracket made for 30mm axle will work. Plenty of options available if I want to upgrade later to a ceramic bottom bracket.

Installation was super easy but then again square axle is also easy to install. For maintenance, you can keep the FSA BSA bottom bracket cup in place and just extract the cartridge bearing and replace them compared to replacing the whole bottom bracket for a square axle or octalink crankset. The Vision crank comes with a auto-extractor bolt so removal is also very easy.

The Vision crank arms are bigger in all dimensions compared to Dura-Ace but have the back-side hollowed out. Just need to wait for summer or a chance to go to Milton to try out their stiffness.

Regarding the TK FRD frameset, I was pretty happy to see that it came within the box 2x bayonet top crown and 2x splined knuckle so the only thing I was missing to have two complete setup (1 for TT and 1 for drop bars) is another 31.8 stem faceplate. Had to go with the shortest extension to be within the 75cm rule for TT bars and I can run the longest extension and still be inside the 5cm limit with a compact 36cm road bar. Just need to see if my back muscles can handle to go that long and low with the drop bars. Daily stretching could be useful.
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Old 11-28-17, 11:33 PM
  #760  
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Thanks!

That's interesting about the cranks being the same length but drilled to make different sizes. I guess that's how they keep the cost down.
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Old 11-29-17, 03:35 PM
  #761  
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Molds for cold forging ain't cheap

I'm planning to get a set of those cranks in 172.5 and use a Rotor BSA30 I have lying around.
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Old 11-29-17, 03:51 PM
  #762  
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Originally Posted by rustymongrel View Post
Molds for cold forging ain't cheap

I'm planning to get a set of those cranks in 172.5 and use a Rotor BSA30 I have lying around.
Good point.

Maybe it's cheaper to make the mold in the largest size then band saw the excess off and sand before painting? Or they can do the thing where there's an insert that gives you 3 different length options depending on how you turn it.

Also, Sugino knurled chainring bolts are probably less expensive than Dura Ace. I've used them as replacements for Dura Ace when I happen to break them.

$20 here: https://www.retro-gression.com/produ...hainring-bolts

I've ordered from there before. Nice people.
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Old 11-29-17, 04:18 PM
  #763  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
i've ordered from there before. Nice people.
+1
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Old 11-29-17, 09:20 PM
  #764  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Good point.

Maybe it's cheaper to make the mold in the largest size then band saw the excess off and sand before painting? Or they can do the thing where there's an insert that gives you 3 different length options depending on how you turn it.

Also, Sugino knurled chainring bolts are probably less expensive than Dura Ace. I've used them as replacements for Dura Ace when I happen to break them.

$20 here: https://www.retro-gression.com/produ...hainring-bolts

I've ordered from there before. Nice people.
The lobed inserts are clever, I guess maybe they're patented by Look? That would explain why you don't see them anywhere else.

I've heard there's good reason not to machine a forged part from a structural standpoint, maybe that's why they don't bother shortening them.
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Old 12-06-17, 09:34 AM
  #765  
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Originally Posted by southernfox View Post
Yeah, it's a great entry level that doesn't feel like an entry level bike. My next will probably be a fuji elite
I LIKE your baby! Congratulations! (My coach rides a Fuji Elite - nice!)
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Old 12-06-17, 11:09 AM
  #766  
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Originally Posted by rustymongrel View Post
I've heard there's good reason not to machine a forged part from a structural standpoint, maybe that's why they don't bother shortening them.
It has to do with the way forging aligns the grain structure of the metal. Think of a part that is made in a closedmold and is foam injected. If you were to cut it in half, you would see that the foam is densest along the outer skin with bigger bubbles in the center. Forging does something similar to the grain structure in metal. Remove some material after forging and you will remove that strong outer "skin", creating weak areas.
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Old 12-06-17, 12:13 PM
  #767  
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Originally Posted by taras0000 View Post
It has to do with the way forging aligns the grain structure of the metal. Think of a part that is made in a closedmold and is foam injected. If you were to cut it in half, you would see that the foam is densest along the outer skin with bigger bubbles in the center. Forging does something similar to the grain structure in metal. Remove some material after forging and you will remove that strong outer "skin", creating weak areas.
In this particular case with holes for pedals being drilled unusually further from the end, wouldn't those holes be in the weaker areas?
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Old 12-06-17, 12:16 PM
  #768  
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Getting closer to my final form.

LVL: 80/100



Felt TK FRD
3T Scatto
Zipp 808 Track
SRM Track Science
Ultegra Pedals (Making my own straps, stay tuned)
Izumi V chain

Last edited by carleton; 12-06-17 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 12-06-17, 12:16 PM
  #769  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
In this particular case with holes for pedals being drilled unusually further from the end, wouldn't those holes be in the weaker areas?
yes possibly but they'd still be exerting force on the strong areas.
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Old 12-06-17, 05:19 PM
  #770  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
In this particular case with holes for pedals being drilled unusually further from the end, wouldn't those holes be in the weaker areas?

Having the holes in the weaker areas isn't the problem. The strength here would be the same as that of a billet machined crankset. But if you were to trim the ends off after forging the crank, you would be removing this tough, work hardened exoskeleton that forging imparts on the crank. That skin contains and transmits stresses and you would then have a piece where the end of the crankset has lost this ability. It would act similar to a stress riser because you have a gradient of strength across the cross sectional aspect of the exposed crank end. Most likely you would end up with localized distortion down the road, if it doesn't crop up right after machining.
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Old 12-06-17, 07:16 PM
  #771  
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Wow. Thanks for the responses.

On a related note: Short Bicycle Cranks

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Old 12-12-17, 08:20 PM
  #772  
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Originally Posted by southernfox View Post
Mah baby.
Your machine has a clean and well sorted appearance !
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Old 12-13-17, 06:42 PM
  #773  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
I knew this would come up

My complaints about the 2010 TK1:

A) Tilting Ritchey seat mast topper (deal breaker)
B) Largest size was 57cm TT
C) 40mm offset fork

I was talking with my bike fitter about the issues one day about how I didn't have the tilting seat or fork offset issues with my Tiemeyer. He was quiet then said, "Do you still have the Tiemeyer?" I did. He also said that both the Tiemeyer and TK1 were too small for me. But, moving back to the Tiemeyer would at least eliminate the deal-breaking seat issue that lost me races. I sold the TK1, rode the 57cm Tiemeyerand and ordered a new 58cm Tiemeyer that addressed all 3 of those issues (ableit only 1cm longer but with a 15cm head tube instead of the 11cm on the previous...I should have had it made at least 2cm longer at 59cm).

Nowadays, I want a 60-61cm TT. There are only a few high-end bikes that come that long. Many are labeled "60cm" but are not. The 60cm Fuji carbon actually has a 58cm TT. The "60cm" Koga has a 57cm TT. So, the TK1 and Cervelos have the longest top tubes (that I can recall off hand).

Since then, Felt went to the 3T seat mast stopper with the indexed DIFF-LOCK system, that addresses issue A.
They also increased the TT length 3cm which addresses issue B.
They still have the 40mm offset fork (issue C). This is my only concession.

The TK FRD (TK1) is the best bike for me right now that:
- Addresses all of the deal-breaking issues (seatposts slipping, toppers tilting, dropouts slipping, etc...)
- Has the reach I need.
- Is high quality.
- Is available.
- Is fancy


Random fact: The bike weighs 8.3kg/18.5lbs as pictured above. That's only 1lb lighter than the 61cm steel Snyder.
Just to note, the Fuji Track Elite is offered as a 61cm and has a 59.5cm TT.
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Old 12-13-17, 07:05 PM
  #774  
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Originally Posted by theblackbullet View Post
Just to note, the Fuji Track Elite is offered as a 61cm and has a 59.5cm TT.
I see it now. Thanks! They call it the "XXL"

Fuji Bikes | Track Elite

I'm glad that manufacturers are now embracing longer frames. Also, as someone here pointed out, narrow bars necessitate a longer top tube than wider bars. Because bringing the hands closer together effectively extends them further out. Interesting basic geometry fact that I'd overlooked for a long time.
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Old 12-13-17, 07:37 PM
  #775  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
I see it now. Thanks! They call it the "XXL"

Fuji Bikes | Track Elite

I'm glad that manufacturers are now embracing longer frames. Also, as someone here pointed out, narrow bars necessitate a longer top tube than wider bars. Because bringing the hands closer together effectively extends them further out. Interesting basic geometry fact that I'd overlooked for a long time.
Yes thank goodness! 59.5 is kind of on the edge for me, but it was the tipping point fo finally getting one of these fancy plastic bikes. Now if only I could get fuji to offer the same bike with 130mm spacing in the rear and a derailler hanger... Most manufacturers are still stuck on short top tubes and slack seat tubes for large road frames unfortunately. At least for track bikes, steep angles have always been available.
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