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Old 10-15-14, 06:11 PM
  #151  
Brian Ratliff
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Also, because the track surface is smooth, high pressure means lower rolling resistance. 150+psi in a tubular beats anything a clincher can withstand. But, ride what you like. Just seems like an unnecessary complication that doesn't give much advantage over tubed clincher and has serious disadvantages over tubular. I think the only advantage tubeless may have is you get to avoid glue.
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Old 10-15-14, 07:05 PM
  #152  
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At 135lbs on a low bank track I dont see it being a problem.

Its sort of a, yeah it probably works, but tubulars are better. You could also ride track on MTB shoes
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Old 10-15-14, 08:42 PM
  #153  
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Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
Pantani98-
Let me know if you need any stubby thomson seat post cut down for Tiemeyer frames... Since mine died I have some around
Thanks Quinn! I may hit you up on that. I'm actually in your neck of the woods, sort of, for work this week. In Thousand Oaks actually. Wanted to check out Encino but haven't been able to get away. And unfortunately I fly out Friday morning.
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Old 10-15-14, 11:13 PM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by Shotland View Post
It's faster, more reliable, smoother, and has a lower rolling resistance than tubular. Period.
Not what this says...
All About Tubeless - Slowtwitch.com

None of the advantages listed in this article apply to the track...
Tubeless tyres - pros and cons -

You've had serious racers both here and on the Kissena group on Facebook all disagree you, so they're all wrong?
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Old 10-15-14, 11:39 PM
  #155  
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Originally Posted by Shotland View Post
So far I'm not hearing any reasons specifically to stay away from tubeless, besides that it's never been tested (which is totally a valid point). I'm only hearing "no one uses it, therefore you shouldn't".
We don't have to prove anything to you. It's between you, your track director, and the skin on your hide whether or not you use those tires. The difference between "Could" and "Should" are very big in this case.

This forum is filled with helpful people offering advice for free. It's up to you whether or not you want to take it.

Do what you want.
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Old 10-16-14, 02:32 PM
  #156  
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Track cyclists are a pretty conservative bunch when it comes to equipment. This reminds me of the arguments 20 yrs ago when people started riding clipless pedals on the track. It was velodrome dependent for a while whether you could use them.

Of course, I ride clinchers as well, so don't listen to me.
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Old 10-16-14, 02:57 PM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by gl98115 View Post
Track cyclists are a pretty conservative bunch when it comes to equipment. This reminds me of the arguments 20 yrs ago when people started riding clipless pedals on the track. It was velodrome dependent for a while whether you could use them.

Of course, I ride clinchers as well, so don't listen to me.
There's a lot to be conservative about when coming out of your pedal or flatting a tire carries a better than even chance of hitting the ground at an obnoxiously high rate of speed. A wide, unbanked road, a freewheel and brakes makes it a lot easier to take equipment risks.

Put it this way... I've flatted in road races probably a dozen times: no issues. I've flatted during a track race exactly once (actually, there is some debate as to what happened; all I know is in the aftermath, my rear tubular was flat and partially off the rim probably due to a rushed glue job) and ended up with a nice case of concussion and an ER visit.
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Old 10-16-14, 03:45 PM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by gl98115 View Post
Track cyclists are a pretty conservative bunch when it comes to equipment. This reminds me of the arguments 20 yrs ago when people started riding clipless pedals on the track. It was velodrome dependent for a while whether you could use them.

Of course, I ride clinchers as well, so don't listen to me.
I agree.

And I would venture to guess that clipless pedals from 20 years ago weren't very secure by modern standards. I've used some old LOOK pedals and they were fine for road, but I would yank out of them on the track.

Trackies seemed to quickly adopt aluminum and carbon frames when those respectively became the norm.
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Old 10-16-14, 10:18 PM
  #159  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post

And I would venture to guess that clipless pedals from 20 years ago weren't very secure by modern standards. I've used some old LOOK pedals and they were fine for road, but I would yank out of them on the track.

Trackies seemed to quickly adopt aluminum and carbon frames when those respectively became the norm.
Carleton, Don't forget that it was in 1996 (so 18 years ago) that Shimano introduced SPD-R, one of the all time retention Kings! So hard to get out of that they discontinued them from their road groups. But, kept making them until very recently, simply for Track.
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Old 10-16-14, 10:19 PM
  #160  
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Originally Posted by bigfred View Post
Carleton, Don't forget that it was in 1996 (so 18 years ago) that Shimano introduced SPD-R, one of the all time retention Kings! So hard to get out of that they discontinued them from their road groups. But, kept making them until very recently, simply for Track.
Good point.
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Old 10-17-14, 07:50 AM
  #161  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
I agree.

And I would venture to guess that clipless pedals from 20 years ago weren't very secure by modern standards. I've used some old LOOK pedals and they were fine for road, but I would yank out of them on the track.

Trackies seemed to quickly adopt aluminum and carbon frames when those respectively became the norm.
Yeah, more or less.
I can never decide whether it's increased demands from equipment, stodgy traditionalism, or innovations coming late (due to small market) that keeps track from adopting new things. Likely, a shifting combination of the three.

Some older LOOK pedals were beasts to get in and out, and modern ones don't compare. Franco Marvulli used delta pedals until his retirement last year! But he rode a whole bunch of crazy crap.

Aluminum bikes stick around a lot longer in track racing than they had in road; it seemed that carbon really had to prove itself, and then get really good, before it got stiff, strong, and specific enough for track use.
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Old 10-17-14, 08:16 AM
  #162  
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For an indoor track I don't see the advantages of a tubeless tire. I think that we can all agree the you get lower rolling resistance from any tire tube (clincher,tubular,tubeless) if the tire is softer, track specific clinchers and tubulars have no puncture protecting leading to a softer tire.

I should be noted that all my training wheels for track have been clinchers and I find that any pressure below 8 bar makes the tires feel odd through the corners.

For an outdoor bumpy track tire choices are a lot different especially for training tires.

When you select the tubeless, make sure it is one that you can pump to 8bar+, has a uniform thread pattern without exessive groves, and the softness/puncture protection matching the track that you are going to ride.

As for automatic sealing of punctures, I imagine that a significant puncture would be a challenge to seal before the pressure drops below an acceptable limit. And then you are not better of that with a clincher.
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Old 10-17-14, 08:20 AM
  #163  
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There is a very old school mentality to track racing. Its a pretty rare thing to see someone riding even a 5 or 6 year old frame in a fast road race (cat3 and up) but pretty common place at the track. When you take weight and comfort out of the equation there is very little left to innovate.
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Old 10-26-14, 11:21 PM
  #164  
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Against better judgement, I decided to build up my first track bike. It's a medium Planet X Pro Carbon. Just finished it this weekend, hoping to get some track time tomorrow. So far the fit feels good (on the trainer/in my parkade), but the drops may be a bit too deep for me.
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Old 10-27-14, 07:35 AM
  #165  
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Originally Posted by TurtleRacer View Post


Against better judgement, I decided to build up my first track bike. It's a medium Planet X Pro Carbon. Just finished it this weekend, hoping to get some track time tomorrow. So far the fit feels good (on the trainer/in my parkade), but the drops may be a bit too deep for me.
Unless you're focusing on standing starts, sprint bars are probably unnecessary.

I see them being most applicable for very big, very fit, very flexible sprinters. Most people need to set them up quite high in order for them to be reachable with a reasonable fit.

Unfortunately they got popular (on the market) in the past 15 years because a track bike doesn't "look" like a track bike, to the internet, unless it comes stock with them.
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Old 10-27-14, 10:15 AM
  #166  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
Unless you're focusing on standing starts, sprint bars are probably unnecessary.

I see them being most applicable for very big, very fit, very flexible sprinters. Most people need to set them up quite high in order for them to be reachable with a reasonable fit.

Unfortunately they got popular (on the market) in the past 15 years because a track bike doesn't "look" like a track bike, to the internet, unless it comes stock with them.
Good call. As a roadie coming over to the track, I was much more comfortable in a road style bar. I do bruise my arms right above the wrists though and I don't do any standing starts at all
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Old 10-27-14, 10:29 AM
  #167  
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Might be due to your position. A really low drop probably means you can't bend your arms much, which would cause you to bump your wrists.

I think most roadies prefer a road bar, for nothing else its easier to hold the top of. I've never had an issue with hitting my wrists, granted I do standing starts in aero bars.
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Old 10-27-14, 11:22 AM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by misterwaterfall View Post
Good call. As a roadie coming over to the track, I was much more comfortable in a road style bar. I do bruise my arms right above the wrists though and I don't do any standing starts at all
Suggestions -
compact bend drops like FSA give some more wrist clearance
so do old criterium handlebars,
and the Shimano Pro Vibe 7S round.

But there's also position and form.

I bruise my wrists sometimes, too.
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Old 10-27-14, 11:53 AM
  #169  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
Suggestions -
compact bend drops like FSA give some more wrist clearance
so do old criterium handlebars,
and the Shimano Pro Vibe 7S round.

But there's also position and form.

I bruise my wrists sometimes, too.
Thanks. No doubt my form and likely position on the track bike could use some work. Both are getting a look before next season.
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Old 10-28-14, 09:22 PM
  #170  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
Unless you're focusing on standing starts, sprint bars are probably unnecessary.

I see them being most applicable for very big, very fit, very flexible sprinters. Most people need to set them up quite high in order for them to be reachable with a reasonable fit.

Unfortunately they got popular (on the market) in the past 15 years because a track bike doesn't "look" like a track bike, to the internet, unless it comes stock with them.
Ha, well I'm not very big, not very fit, not very flexible, nor a sprinter... so maybe I don't need sprint bars . But since I have them, I'll try them for now and try some road bars too.

I took the bike for a spin at the track yesterday and it was great! It felt plenty stiff and very nimble (a bit twitchy really). Also, much smoother ride - not sure if it was the tubulars, or the carbon frame, but the riding on the bumpy plywood boards was much smoother, compared to the Trek aluminum rental bikes.
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Old 10-30-14, 07:56 AM
  #171  
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Bike as I raced it last season. Except swap compact road bars for EC90 track bars, and clipless pedals obviously. Hoping to upgrade wheels for the coming season.



Actual race setup:


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Old 10-30-14, 08:44 AM
  #172  
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Originally Posted by dudeyagnarbro View Post
Bike as I raced it last season. Except swap compact road bars for EC90 track bars, and clipless pedals obviously. Hoping to upgrade wheels for the coming season.
Street bikes are generally not accepted in the thread. It's nothing personal. But, a lot of folks from the single-speed, fixed gear scene like to post here. We like to keep the thread filled with bikes in their race kit

Got any pics like that?
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Old 10-30-14, 08:45 AM
  #173  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Street bikes are generally not accepted in the thread. It's nothing personal. But, a lot of folks from the single-speed, fixed gear scene like to post here. We like to keep the thread filled with bikes in their race kit

Got any pics like that?
Sure sure... I'll edit my post.
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Old 10-31-14, 06:25 AM
  #174  
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BOOOO! Surely everyone who visits this page will look at my track bike in winter training mode and can tell it is a purpose built race machine!



BEFORE:








Last edited by theblackbullet; 10-31-14 at 07:01 AM.
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Old 10-31-14, 06:35 AM
  #175  
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Originally Posted by dudeyagnarbro View Post
Sure sure... I'll edit my post.
Thanks!

Originally Posted by theblackbullet View Post
BOOOO! Surely everyone who visits this page will look at my track bike in winter training mode and can tell it is a purpose built race machine!
Thanks!

Last edited by carleton; 10-31-14 at 08:53 AM.
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