Go Back  Bike Forums > The Racer's Forum > Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area
Reload this Page >

Removing old tubbie glue down to bare rim

Notices
Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area Looking to enter into the realm of track racing? Want to share your experiences and tactics for riding on a velodrome? The Track Cycling forums is for you! Come in and discuss training/racing, equipment, and current track cycling events.

Removing old tubbie glue down to bare rim

Old 02-11-14, 07:22 PM
  #26  
Quinn8it
Senior Member
 
Quinn8it's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 956

Bikes: Bianchi Pista, Bianchi Vigorelli

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by noglider View Post
If you apply glue to both tire and rim, won't the two layers stick together?
The issue is the adhesion of the new type of glue to the old glue already on the rim bed..
Quinn8it is offline  
Old 02-11-14, 08:18 PM
  #27  
ftwelder
Senior Member
 
ftwelder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: vermont
Posts: 3,090

Bikes: Many

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Naptha isn't very clean. You will want to use acetone or a hot strong detergent to clean the rims before using glue.
ftwelder is offline  
Old 02-11-14, 10:19 PM
  #28  
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 39,179

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Mentioned: 475 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6506 Post(s)
Liked 1,045 Times in 693 Posts
Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
The issue is the adhesion of the new type of glue to the old glue already on the rim bed..
Ok then. The two don't stick together. And when has this happened to a cyclist?
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Old 02-12-14, 12:22 AM
  #29  
Baby Puke
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Kanazawa
Posts: 1,646

Bikes: Marin Stelvio, Pogliaghi SL, Panasonic NJS, Dolan DF4, Intense Pro24 BMX

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 343 Post(s)
Liked 57 Times in 38 Posts
I don't have an anecdote for you but i think most will accept that some glues don't play well together. The trick is knowing which glues need to be kept separate, and there's nobody who really knows this information as far as I can tell. So the prevailing wisdom is to just remove the old glue. Cuz you don't want to suddenly be tire-less when you come off the banking at ~40mph (or faster, depending who you are). That could hurt.

As far as your other question about how much glue build-up is too much: I've been told there is a point where too much is bad. I've only rolled one tire in my life. 1000 years ago in a crit (think down tube shifters, non-ironic mullets), a guy went down in front of me mid-corner. As I was sideways trying not to hit him and go down myself, another guy T-boned me. When I picked myself up, my rear tire had rolled. There was a lot of glue on that wheel, and that could maybe have been part of it. Or it could have been that impact while the bike was sideways levered the tire off no matter much or how little glue was on there.

Too much glue is probably bad, but too little is maybe worse. The right amount is probably..., enough. Are you looking for a gluing primer? There was a good one on the FGF page, but that page seems to be inaccessible or booby-trapped or something these days. Probably Carleton can scare one up, might be a useful sticky.
Baby Puke is offline  
Old 02-12-14, 01:25 PM
  #30  
slindell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 149
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Try the following for a link on glue procedure complete with adhesion tests of different glues and procedures.
https://www.engr.ku.edu/~kuktl/bicycle/Cusa1.pdf

Summary is 2 layer on the tire, 3 on the rim. The rolling resistance tests have also shown this to be better than less glue.
slindell is offline  
Old 02-12-14, 08:07 PM
  #31  
Racer Ex 
Resident Alien
 
Racer Ex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Location, location.
Posts: 13,089
Mentioned: 158 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 349 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 5 Posts
Goof off works the best of anything I've found (don't use the latex paint stuff, they make two kinds) on Mastik. Well ventilated area, voc mask preferred, and chemical gloves. I use paper towels soaked in the stuff. Make a pass, then let it sit and soften. Scrub as it softens and it rolls off. Really old stuff use some Scotchbrite pad soaked in Goof Off. That's for carbon rims. 10-15 minutes per.

On aluminum rims use a brass wire brush on a bench grinder. 5 minutes or less.

I always clean the old glue off. You're looking for as much surface area contact between the tire and the rim to lower rolling resistance and maximize adhesion. Leaving old glue does a lot of bad things, but probably number one is you end up with a lot of surface area voids.

Yes, you can half ass it and leave the old glue on, but it won't match what you'll get with a clean rim and tire.

Depending on the tubular and rim I'll go 2-3 coats. Mostly two on the rim and coated base tape, add a third coat on bare tape. Use a foam brush for the rim and an acid/flux brush on the tire. Do it right and you should have the base tape sticking to the rim when you remove the tire. This means you>factory and that's the goal.
Racer Ex is offline  
Old 02-12-14, 08:20 PM
  #32  
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,856
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1337 Post(s)
Liked 54 Times in 44 Posts
You'd think that someone would have developed a superior system than sew-ups with glue glue or clinchers by now.
carleton is offline  
Old 02-12-14, 08:35 PM
  #33  
Racer Ex 
Resident Alien
 
Racer Ex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Location, location.
Posts: 13,089
Mentioned: 158 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 349 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by carleton View Post
You'd think that someone would have developed a superior system than sew-ups with glue glue or clinchers by now.
Tubeless is getting there. The newest tires are (holy sheet) good, I've transitioned most of my road stuff over other than my rear disc and a set of uber light climbers which I'm pondering.

Problem for track is that we run ridiculous pressures that for now only a glued on fully encased tire is going to be able to sustain without bad stuff happening.

You figure 200 MPH 2000lb Daytona sleds are fine on tubeless, but they aren't counting grams or trying to build tires you can change on the side of an MUP.

Zero doubt that it would be pretty easy to design a tubeless tire and rim combo for track that could handle 200 PSI and laugh. Also no doubt that you'd be a laughed at during the venture cap presentation:

"Now I think we can move 300 units a year..."
Racer Ex is offline  
Old 02-12-14, 08:42 PM
  #34  
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,856
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1337 Post(s)
Liked 54 Times in 44 Posts
Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
Zero doubt that it would be pretty easy to design a tubeless tire and rim combo for track that could handle 200 PSI and laugh. Also no doubt that you'd be a laughed at during the venture cap presentation:

"Now I think we can move 300 units a year..."
Hahahahaha!
carleton is offline  
Old 02-13-14, 12:19 AM
  #35  
Nagrom_
Fixie Infamous
 
Nagrom_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SF
Posts: 10,474

Bikes: 2007 CAAD Optimo Track, 2012 Cannondale CAAD10, 1996 GT Force restomod, 2015 Cannondale CAADX

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
Tubeless is getting there. The newest tires are (holy sheet) good
Slightly OT but what are you rolling on, if you don't mind me asking?

I went tubeless after my last set of GP4ks and am never going back.
Nagrom_ is offline  
Old 02-13-14, 12:54 AM
  #36  
Racer Ex 
Resident Alien
 
Racer Ex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Location, location.
Posts: 13,089
Mentioned: 158 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 349 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Nagrom_ View Post
Slightly OT but what are you rolling on, if you don't mind me asking?

I went tubeless after my last set of GP4ks and am never going back.
IRC's. Roadlite 25c is like going from a street tire to a racing slick on a Superbike...and thats their training tire. The Crr is very very good. Too early to comment on durability, but initial impression is the best traction from any tire I have ridden. Ride quality is quite good as well.

I did a bit of a BMX stuff during a crit over the weekend on them...made me smile.
Racer Ex is offline  
Old 02-14-14, 03:18 AM
  #37  
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 39,179

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Mentioned: 475 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6506 Post(s)
Liked 1,045 Times in 693 Posts
I'll be glad when tubulars die. Tubeless sound promising. Maybe someone figure out how to use them without goo, or at least without so much of it.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Old 02-14-14, 08:43 PM
  #38  
Racer Ex 
Resident Alien
 
Racer Ex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Location, location.
Posts: 13,089
Mentioned: 158 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 349 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by noglider View Post
I'll be glad when tubulars die. Tubeless sound promising. Maybe someone figure out how to use them without goo, or at least without so much of it.
With true tubeless rims to tubeless tires you don't need sealant, at least not on some of the ones I've used. I've been running some Hutchinsons on Dura tubeless wheels without and it's like a butyl tube for holding pressure. Same with the IRC MTB tires on Mavics, though I threw some sealant in later.

The conversions still need sealant though. Some of the other systems like Bontrager's road tubeless also need it...I think anytime there's a liner involved that's going to be the call vs. a solid rim.
Racer Ex is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
kahrs
Classic & Vintage
6
07-08-19 10:40 PM
rushbikes
Road Cycling
30
12-23-16 06:01 PM
MiloFrance
Classic & Vintage
22
09-21-14 02:10 PM
bliorg
Bicycle Mechanics
20
06-16-14 07:31 PM
mkadam68
Road Cycling
3
04-11-11 07:38 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.