Originally Posted by robabeatle (Post 18067068)

bunk

Originally Posted by sprince (Post 18067097)

Kinda what I suspected. Why not just breath through your nose, or a paper bag? I haven't seen the guy in the mask since (who I would only recognize in the mask), so I have to assume he either expired soon after he left the gym that evening, or decided the results did not justify continued use of the apparatus. And he did seem to be suffering a lot while running 3.5 mph on the treadmill at a 0 degree incline.

Originally Posted by jsk (Post 18067252)

The mask can't simulate altitude, obviously, since it's not changing the amount of oxygen in the air. All it can really do is strengthen your diaphragm since you're working your "breathing muscles" harder when you breathe through the mask. Has no effect on your blood or oxygen absorption, though.

Originally Posted by RISKDR1 (Post 18067130)

the theory is that training at high altitude causes your blood to compensate for low oxygen by increasing your red blood cell count. I would think that short exposure as in using a bag in a gym would have little if any effect. I think it would take long exposure to high altitude to cause the blood changes. I would bet that it would require several weeks living and training at altitude for meaningful change in RBC count.

Originally Posted by erig007 (Post 18067397)

I'm not so sure...there is some expelled CO2 that one may breath back.

Originally Posted by RISKDR1 (Post 18067130)

the theory is that training at high altitude causes your blood to compensate for low oxygen by increasing your red blood cell count. I would think that short exposure as in using a bag in a gym would have little if any effect. I think it would take long exposure to high altitude to cause the blood changes. I would bet that it would require several weeks living and training at altitude for meaningful change in RBC count.

Originally Posted by ThermionicScott (Post 18068855)

Unlike carbon monoxide, inhaled CO2 doesn't interfere with oxygen absorption.

Originally Posted by erig007 (Post 18070579)

But what you breath in CO2 you can't breath in oxygen. Lungs still have the same limited capacity.

Originally Posted by sprince (Post 18070598)

So breathing through a lit cigar should be like altitude x10?

Originally Posted by Garfield Cat (Post 18069432)

It would be interesting to get Nairo Quintana's red blood cell readings. And then compare his with the same age (non rider) indigenous people of Colombia.

For instance, Peruvian city altitudes:


City Height (Ft) Height (Meter)
Lima 5080 1550
Cusco 10800 3300
Ollantaytambo 9150 2790
Machu Picchu 8040 2450
Puno 12420 3860
Arequipa 7740 2380
Lake Titicaca 12420 3860

Then Colombia cities:

Ranked Town / City Country Height (m) Height (ft)
14 Guachucal Colombia 3285 10777
18 Ipiales Colombia 2900 9385
20 Tunja Colombia 2820 9310
24 Bogotá Colombia 2640 8661

Originally Posted by erig007 (Post 18070990)

Didn't say that.
Clue number 1:
when i breath through my mask part of my breath goes back into my lungs (i can notice the difference in terms of smell between my breath and fresh air). To be expected since when i expels some CO2 i have to create enough pressure for the CO2 to go through the mask valves. As you can guess not everything can go through.
Clue number 2:
i ride slower with my mask on. Get tired faster....

Originally Posted by erig007 (Post 18070579)

But what you breath in CO2 you can't breath in oxygen.

Originally Posted by ThermionicScott (Post 18071920)

Again, you're wrong. The lungs will absorb whatever oxygen is present, regardless of the amount of CO2 present. If you want to talk about a diminished amount of available oxygen from rebreathing the same air over and over, you'd be on the right track. But the "Elevation Training Mask" doesn't do that -- it's just a restrictor.

Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy (Post 18071084)

If you're using a mask, there's a very simple test you can do to see if it does anything. Wear a pulse oximeter while exercising with the mask on. For it to have an effect, your blood oxygenation has to drop below 93%. Pulse oximeters are quite inexpensive.

Originally Posted by erig007 (Post 18072998)

<snip>
I will do that but without exercising as the pulse oximeter seems to lose accuracy when there is motion and strong light.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v3rae-73jc

Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy (Post 18071084)

If you're using a mask, there's a very simple test you can do to see if it does anything. Wear a pulse oximeter while exercising with the mask on. For it to have an effect, your blood oxygenation has to drop below 93%. Pulse oximeters are quite inexpensive.

Originally Posted by erig007 (Post 18072998)

I wasn't talking about what the lungs absorbs but what you breath. And what you breath is anything that is near your nose and/or mouth that you want to breath it or not. It's one of the main reasons why people die during house fires because they can't choose what to breath.
My mask isn't an elevation training mask but a basic mask that do pretty much that. It's harder to breath through the mask that it is without it. And I end up breathing the same air over and over partially with some new air getting inside the mask.

Originally Posted by ThermionicScott (Post 18109415)

People die during house fires from carbon monoxide and/or lack of oxygen, if they don't burn up.

What kind of mask do you use that holds onto a significant amount of exhaled air? Smelling your breath when breathing in doesn't count.

Originally Posted by erig007 (Post 18109442)

Respro techno, 3M 8293. Those 2 reach their limits during hot summer days and high exertion activities like climbing. My other P100 half masks with removable filters breath way better than those 2 but they lack stealth. I also have some cheap dust masks that are of no use when riding because there is no way to breath through these masks while doing any type of work out.

Originally Posted by RISKDR1 (Post 18067130)

the theory is that training at high altitude causes your blood to compensate for low oxygen by increasing your red blood cell count. I would think that short exposure as in using a bag in a gym would have little if any effect. I think it would take long exposure to high altitude to cause the blood changes. I would bet that it would require several weeks living and training at altitude for meaningful change in RBC count.