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Vegans

Old 12-31-15, 03:54 PM
  #276  
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Originally Posted by Ball Bearing View Post
There it is, folks; an infant being programmed - the message here is Live to Eat rather than Eat to Live - Health be damned. Sorry, it does not make sense to me. I thoroughly enjoy eating a totally plant diet. After 43 years of excluding flesh from my diet I have no dietary regrets (except I wish I was raised a vegan from birth).

I have never ever seen a vegan try and stir things up in a meat eater thread anywhere on the net. I wonder why vegan threads are always invaded by the meat eaters. I believe that deep down everyone knows that causing suffering to our fellow creatures for the satisfaction of the taste buds is wrong. Insecurity is the only reason I can see for the need to preach about the glories of flesh eating in a vegan thread.
+1, i started the thread as a place for vegan/whole plant based foods persons to congregate. then bam wolfchild shows up and hijacks the thread. i agree with the programming bit in there as well. i was talking to a friend of mine last night and he still believe eggs are nutritious. he is still over 300lbs and i went from 230 to 160. i'm living proof right in front of him and he just does not get it. constantly he reverts to the appeals to nature fallacies.
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Old 12-31-15, 07:43 PM
  #277  
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All this is making me hungry for an nice thick juicy steak.
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Old 01-02-16, 01:14 PM
  #278  
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Originally Posted by Ball Bearing View Post
<snip>
I have never ever seen a vegan try and stir things up in a meat eater thread anywhere on the net. I wonder why vegan threads are always invaded by the meat eaters. I believe that deep down everyone knows that causing suffering to our fellow creatures for the satisfaction of the taste buds is wrong. Insecurity is the only reason I can see for the need to preach about the glories of flesh eating in a vegan thread.
You seem to be looking through the wrong end of the telescope. I see you only have 78 posts. You might want to familiarize yourself a little with this forum before making pronouncements about the behavior of others as compared to yours. If you look, you'll see that no other diet fad has quite so much self-righteousness as the vegan:
https://www.bikeforums.net/training-n...-low-carb.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/training-n...heck-here.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/training-n...nean-diet.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/training-n...-athletes.html
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Old 01-02-16, 04:23 PM
  #279  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
You seem to be looking through the wrong end of the telescope. I see you only have 78 posts. You might want to familiarize yourself a little with this forum before making pronouncements about the behavior of others as compared to yours. If you look, you'll see that no other diet fad has quite so much self-righteousness as the vegan:
https://www.bikeforums.net/training-n...-low-carb.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/training-n...heck-here.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/training-n...nean-diet.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/training-n...-athletes.html
I am unsure what you mean about my post count. I have been a member since 2013 and I don't post much because most of my cycling questions are answered by using the search function.

I went through the thread links you listed. I would be grateful if you could point out individual posts that are written by self-righteous vegans. I am not sure what you mean by that term.

What I do know is that people are making themselves sick by their food choices. In my little town of 4000 people, or thereabouts, there is an absolute epidemic of lifestyle diseases and early deaths. Heart disease, cancer, diabetes and stroke are the killers and debilitate many of the people living with their diseases. From what I have been able to discern, most of these poor souls ate a heavy animal based diet. The vegetarian/vegans seem to be doing quite well.

My family history is a veritable textbook example of bad health and early death. I have, so far, avoided disease and I now have come to believe that we don't so much as inherit disease inducing genes as we do inherit bad diet.

When someone flatly says that animal products are essential for good health I will sometimes counter-post for the sake of introducing evidence that refutes such claims. Is that what you mean by self-righteousness?
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Old 01-02-16, 07:15 PM
  #280  
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Originally Posted by Ball Bearing View Post
I am unsure what you mean about my post count. I have been a member since 2013 and I don't post much because most of my cycling questions are answered by using the search function.

I went through the thread links you listed. I would be grateful if you could point out individual posts that are written by self-righteous vegans. I am not sure what you mean by that term.

What I do know is that people are making themselves sick by their food choices. In my little town of 4000 people, or thereabouts, there is an absolute epidemic of lifestyle diseases and early deaths. Heart disease, cancer, diabetes and stroke are the killers and debilitate many of the people living with their diseases. From what I have been able to discern, most of these poor souls ate a heavy animal based diet. The vegetarian/vegans seem to be doing quite well.

My family history is a veritable textbook example of bad health and early death. I have, so far, avoided disease and I now have come to believe that we don't so much as inherit disease inducing genes as we do inherit bad diet.

When someone flatly says that animal products are essential for good health I will sometimes counter-post for the sake of introducing evidence that refutes such claims. Is that what you mean by self-righteousness?
No. I put up those links FYI so that you could see that a variety of viewpoints have been expressed in every diet fad thread that I have seen over the years.
I believe that deep down everyone knows that causing suffering to our fellow creatures for the satisfaction of the taste buds is wrong. Insecurity is the only reason I can see for the need to preach about the glories of flesh eating in a vegan thread.
<- That's what I'm talking about. The denigration of the viewpoints of others. And the desire to have some sort of private thread where followers of a particular diet could post all by themselves, without the intrusion of nonbelievers. That's also what I'm talking about. IMHO it's uncalled for. You have your own morality. It is not universal. No morality is: it's a human construct.

I enjoy seeing various viewpoints on all the topics which come under discussion on BF. I would hope that those who express opinions can back up their talk with facts or at least anecdotes, and that we could have such discussions without hostility.

If you indeed did read the threads to which I linked, you would have surely noticed that many cyclists who have posted there eat a "heavy animal based diet," and are exceedingly healthy on that diet, indeed healthier and harder riding than the vegans whom I know personally. The low-carbers and the paleos seem to be doing quite well. The humans living on the surface of this planet have eaten and still eat a wide range of foods, from all vegetable to all animal. In every dietary population, some will be healthy and others not so much. It takes a bit of hubris to declare than one is more righteous than are others. Tell that to a lion.
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Old 01-02-16, 07:46 PM
  #281  
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Vegan. I used to give plenty of ****s about what people ate - for about a year. Its not very adult-like to do so. Everyone has a right to do what makes them happy, even if that's arguing on the internet about "diets" (which, It seems, will probably be an olympic sport within the next 10 years - or maybe a sub-competition within crossfit, or something).
People die. If someone is eating crap and it's killing them, but they ****ing love it, the adult thing to do is grow up and let them - whether that means they are eating vegan crap or omnivorous crap or strictly carnivorous crap.

But I hear there's a gold medal "dietary changes resulting from internet debate" coming in 2017 so everyone keep practicing. It's a lot better than riding bikes.

Last edited by Lamp-Shade; 01-02-16 at 07:47 PM. Reason: .
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Old 01-02-16, 08:31 PM
  #282  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
<- That's what I'm talking about. The denigration of the viewpoints of others.
Denigration? Where? As I said, that's my belief. I am not saying that other people can't believe something else.
Tell that to a lion.
Animal behavior includes many things that we would find abominable. I don't think you really want to go there.
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Old 01-02-16, 10:43 PM
  #283  
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Originally Posted by Lamp-Shade View Post
But I hear there's a gold medal "dietary changes resulting from internet debate" coming in 2017 so everyone keep practicing. It's a lot better than riding bikes.
Yeah, who need cycling?

I don't mind what other people choose to eat. The only reason I entered this thread is because of the misinformation being posted.

Like I said before, I have no idea what motivates a non-vegan to post in a thread titled "Vegans".
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Old 01-12-16, 07:45 AM
  #284  
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New kid on the youtube block - Mic the Vegan. Check him out...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4AZGx1ar44
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Old 01-12-16, 09:55 AM
  #285  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Of course the deal-breaker can be protein. The protein/carb thing is interesting. One needs however many carbs for energy, but the protein requirement is relatively fixed. She probably averaged ~8000 calories/day, which made it easy to get enough protein in that fraction of her diet. Even so, she got really weak after a few weeks of the PCT and had to redo her diet to include more protein. IOW, hard to get enough protein on a recreational cyclist's calorie requirements, which is why I've ridden with liver-and-onion eating vegan bike tourists. There's the B12 thing too, another deal-breaker.
Protein and B12 ? you can get those from chia /flax/hemp heart seeds . Next question .
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Old 01-12-16, 03:36 PM
  #286  
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Do Vegetarians Get Enough Protein?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m4p8s7xskQ

[h=1]Protein is the Most Dangerous Thing in the World[/h]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIn6NyNN4As

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Old 01-12-16, 07:47 PM
  #287  
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Originally Posted by gif4445 View Post
All this is making me hungry for an nice thick juicy steak.
the jerk store called, they're all out of you
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Old 01-13-16, 01:23 PM
  #288  
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Originally Posted by mapeiboy View Post
Protein and B12 ? you can get those from chia /flax/hemp heart seeds . Next question .
Not arguing the protein part, but I haven't found a B12 source short of supplementation or fortified foods. Can you provide further information on this? I've always read that supplementation is necessary.
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Old 01-13-16, 04:30 PM
  #289  
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Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
Not arguing the protein part, but I haven't found a B12 source short of supplementation or fortified foods. Can you provide further information on this? I've always read that supplementation is necessary.
Supplements are a wise choice - especially methylcobalamin. B12 is not produced by an animal, it is produced by bacteria. The B12 supplements are made using bacteria. People who eat animal products are also prone to a B12 deficiency and it is surprisingly common.

"...Oddly, the researchers found no association between plasma B12 levels and meat, poultry, and fish intake, even though these foods supply the bulk of B12 in the diet. “It’s not because people aren’t eating enough meat,” Tucker said. “The vitamin isn’t getting absorbed.”..."

ARS :
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Old 01-13-16, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
Not arguing the protein part, but I haven't found a B12 source short of supplementation or fortified foods. Can you provide further information on this? I've always read that supplementation is necessary.
Sorry about my mistake on B12 . Since I am vegan I take B12 pills everyday .
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Old 01-13-16, 06:32 PM
  #291  
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From what I understand, unless you eat a 100% "clean" diet, you will ingest enough B12 from fortified foods like nutmilks, nutritional yeast, etc. I don't see any issue with taking a supplement though, your body will just eliminate the excess. I know that I have to pay way less attention to my diet and general health than the non-vegans around me, but perhaps that is just a quirk. They all take multiple vitamin pills each day and weigh portions/count calories/restrict intake, whereas I don't need to. In fact, it can be difficult to eat enough during the day. I think it helps that I work outside and try to stay pretty active.
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Old 01-14-16, 04:59 AM
  #292  
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i want proof people are walking around with b12 defincies
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Old 01-14-16, 07:06 AM
  #293  
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Originally Posted by FXjohn View Post
i want proof people are walking around with b12 defincies
Relying on B12 pills and supplements is the proof that the person is deficient in this important vitamin...A healthy human gut bacteria should be able to synthesize all the B12 it needs from the food we eat and there is no need for supplements...The problem with vegans is that they avoid foods which help gut bacteria to synthesize B12 and help keep the gut bacteria healthy...B12 supplements don't work, it a lot better to follow a balanced diet and eat food which promote healthy gut.
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Old 01-14-16, 10:12 AM
  #294  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Relying on B12 pills and supplements is the proof that the person is deficient in this important vitamin...A healthy human gut bacteria should be able to synthesize all the B12 it needs from the food we eat and there is no need for supplements...The problem with vegans is that they avoid foods which help gut bacteria to synthesize B12 and help keep the gut bacteria healthy...B12 supplements don't work, it a lot better to follow a balanced diet and eat food which promote healthy gut.
Anyone can be deficient in vit. B-12. They do work. All it takes is a simple internet search on your part, however I presume you are too busy consistently bashing vegan/wholefoodplantbassed peoples on an internet forum.
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Old 01-14-16, 10:13 AM
  #295  
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Anyway, woke up great today guys. Had my 8 banana smoothie wtih 1/2lb of strawberries and 1cup of soymilk. All blended together with 2cups of water in the mix. Very good.
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Old 01-14-16, 01:28 PM
  #296  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
A healthy human gut bacteria should be able to synthesize all the B12 it needs from the food we eat and there is no need for supplements...The problem with vegans is that they avoid foods which help gut bacteria to synthesize B12 and help keep the gut bacteria healthy.
I always thought it was plant matter that kept gut bacteria healthy... but you seem to be saying otherwise. So what foods do you believe are necessary for healthy gut bacteria?
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Old 01-14-16, 01:30 PM
  #297  
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Originally Posted by FXjohn View Post
i want proof people are walking around with b12 defincies
On doing a little bit of research I tend to agree. While it does occur.. it doesn't seem to be nearly as common as we have been lead to believe.
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Old 01-14-16, 04:54 PM
  #298  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Relying on B12 pills and supplements is the proof that the person is deficient in this important vitamin...A healthy human gut bacteria should be able to synthesize all the B12 it needs from the food we eat and there is no need for supplements...The problem with vegans is that they avoid foods which help gut bacteria to synthesize B12 and help keep the gut bacteria healthy...B12 supplements don't work, it a lot better to follow a balanced diet and eat food which promote healthy gut.
Do you have any evidence that the B12 produced in the human gut is the B12 that is found in our blood serum? Can you show the research proving that B12 supplementation does not work?

Animals get their B12 from bacteria - supplements of B12 are produced from bacteria.

I'm still waiting for you rebuttal to the American Dietetic Association on their vegetarian/vegan statement..

"...It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes..."

Position of the American Dietetic Association: vegetarian diets. - PubMed - NCBI

Do you have something against scientific evidence?
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Old 01-14-16, 05:05 PM
  #299  
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Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
On doing a little bit of research I tend to agree. While it does occur.. it doesn't seem to be nearly as common as we have been lead to believe.
i did not take B12 supplements for many years without any ill effects. I began taking them around ten years ago solely as a precautionary measure.
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Old 01-14-16, 07:33 PM
  #300  
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Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
I always thought it was plant matter that kept gut bacteria healthy... but you seem to be saying otherwise. So what foods do you believe are necessary for healthy gut bacteria?
Yes plant foods high in fibre are good for your gut and so are plant foods which are high in resistant starch...Fermented probiotics such as yogurt, kefir, sauerkraut and other fermented foods are also very good for your gut bacteria...But the only way to get sufficient amounts of B12 is to eat animal products. I prefer to get my probiotics and my B12 from foods instead of pills...Vegan lifestyle is unsustainable without taking huge doses of different supplements.
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