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Old 12-19-15, 06:57 AM
  #201  
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Any thoughts on the protein craze that is currently taking place? All over the place it seems every health "guru" has their own line of whey protein powder. I mean, talk about a quick cash grab.
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Old 12-19-15, 07:06 AM
  #202  
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I am 5 months into a whole foods plant based diet. Please, someone explain to me how what I eat has any effect on you, and why you care so much.
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Old 12-19-15, 09:16 AM
  #203  
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Originally Posted by DosWheelsBtr View Post
Any thoughts on the protein craze that is currently taking place?
Because protein is an essential nutrient, it helps with recovery, it helps with fat loss and athletes have greater needs for protein then sedentary people.


Originally Posted by DosWheelsBtr View Post
All over the place it seems every health "guru" has their own line of whey protein powder.
Every health guru also has their own line of cereal...I think "eating cereal for breakfast" dogma needs to die.

Originally Posted by DosWheelsBtr View Post
I mean, talk about a quick cash grab.
Majority of supplements and "exotic super foods" are a cash grab....All those "super foods" such as chia seeds, hemp seeds, aramantah seeds, quinoa, gojii berries, acai berries and few others are all a big scam...Just because some tribe in the Amazon eats something doesn't mean anything....Our health food manufacturers take these "exotic tribal foods" and promote them as having magical healing powers and a lot of westerners just fall for it and swallow hook line and sinker....You would be better off eating steel-cut oats and blueberries then some of these exotic health foods.
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Old 12-20-15, 05:16 AM
  #204  
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Originally Posted by DosWheelsBtr View Post
Nah man he doesn't because for him to take away his bacon is to take away his "freedom"
Yes, it is obvious from his posts: His high-fat/high-animal-product diet is based on ideology rather than science. For him and the other most vocal proponents, "facts" are created to support their ideology and then presented as real science rather than the pseudo-science it actually is...
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Old 12-20-15, 05:34 AM
  #205  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Yes, industrial food production has created a surplus of very cheap "food" which is purchased by poor people because it's all they can afford. These products are made available through a hyper-saturation of the marketplace. The ideal in cities is to have junk food outlets no more than 100 yards apart. The lack of micronutrients in junk food explains the phenomenon of obese poor people.

Our system is now failing to keep people living longer. Only the relatively wealthy are living longer. The US has a higher rate of infant mortality than many East European countries:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2091rank.html
Mississippi has a higher infant mortality rate than Botswana:
Infant Mortality Rate (Deaths per 1,000 Live Births) | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation

These are the results posted by our system.
Yes, I agree that the American disease-care system is not very good at promoting health.

And, yes, the poor are hit disproportionately hard with the fast food/cheap processed food wave. But the wave is not limited to them: Last year was the first year that more money was spent in restaurants than in grocery stores. And, one of the big winners (surprisingly since they were supposed to be losers in the shift towards healthy foods) was McDonald's...

One theory is:
"Where did the money from $2.00 gasoline go (savings did not increase -- although debt decreased)?
... One answer is: To McDonald's as the soccer mom's stopped there and at Dairy Queen after practice...

My personal experience is that the nation has divided on food just as it has politically: some celebrate eating junk while others are very serious about their healthy diets with fewer in the middle...
... I belong to a running group where, although all are very fitness conscious, a large segment have large bellies from the high fat/high sugar diets that they celebrate eating after practice runs... I suspect it is the old theory that running "burns off" "bad" calories -- and part of that is that many equate a healthy body and diet to weight only -- yet overweight has become the new normal so people are no longer embarrassed because even the guys look like their carrying a baby...
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Old 12-20-15, 05:40 AM
  #206  
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Originally Posted by DosWheelsBtr View Post
People argue about the ideal lifestyle bc the science is there to support it. A wholefoods plant based diet/veganism can reduce/reverse chronic diseases that plague the western world along with help fight global warming. You can choose to have a broken family, endless entertainment, health problems, etc. It seems you have a victim complex. The lifestyle isn't rearranging the deck chairs on a sinking ship, more adapt to constantly plugging the fuggin' holes.
Heh, you fell for the global warming scam, you might want to look into geoengineering. As for broken families, I wasn't aware that children can choose their parents? Did you have this option? I didn't. I've opted out of most mainstream culture, including mass distraction based entertainment and the typical junk food diet. Also, many health problems are the direct result of something you have no control over. The Manhattan project is a fine example. The ship can't be plugged, it needs to be replaced, modern society is designed to fail.
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Old 12-20-15, 05:55 AM
  #207  
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Originally Posted by SHBR View Post
My grandmother tells me a different story then you remember. Were you around in the 1940's? It was a real horror show for most folks back then, or so I've heard? The baby boomer generation had/still has no clue of the sacrifices that were made by the previous generation. The sense of entitlement that most people have now is off the charts, made possible by decades of television, and propaganda, and an endless supply of self appointed experts that believe they know what is best for everyone on the planet.

Science has been turned into pop culture that has a cult like religious following, its become an exclusive club. The masses are not actually taught science anymore, the old chemistry kits are banned, deemed too dangerous. Many studies are not open to the public, usually pay walled, or limited to university alumni etc. The internet has helped, however most people only use facebook, and the context of most conversations is purely topical, nothing of any real substance.

In summary, most of humanity has no idea of the mess that has been made in the 20th century, we continue to plow ahead with great ideas, such as junk food, endless entertainment, broken families, and health problems galore. Meanwhile people have to argue about which diet is the most suitable for the entire human population. Kind of like rearranging the deck chairs before the ship sinks.

Good Luck!
I think your grandma was probably talking about the depression years and their follow-up throughout the 30's, In the U.S. that ended with our entrance into WW-II and pretty much continued with middle class prosperity up until the oil crisis of the early 70's along with the beginning demise of American steel and other industries... But she is correct that the Depression years were bad, very bad. Many people went hungry.

And, it sounds like you are confusing Baby Boomers with those born in the 60's and later... The boomers were children of those you are talking about. They are called "Boomers" because of the baby boom that happened immediately after WW-II as the returning GI's married and had kids. The parents of that generation went through both the depression and WW-II. And, in addition to the parents teaching their children about it, the American culture celebrated the end to that suffering and looked forward to a future of strong, healthy American kids living in a land of prosperity and peace -- both of which began to fall apart in the 70's... But, the Baby Boomers were raised by those you who, you suggest, they have no knowledge of, that is not correct. They were their parents. Unfortunately though: it seems that many "old white guys" have forgotten the lessons learned at their parent's knees...
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Old 12-20-15, 06:03 AM
  #208  
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Originally Posted by DosWheelsBtr View Post
He has been doing it since the beginning of the forum.

On a different note: I am utterly surprised with the protein craze that currently enthralls people.
Eating a high animal protein diet may not be healthy -- but it can be good for musculature and waist line. For many Americans, health is defined by big muscles and a small waist and vegans are equated to the proverbial sickly, 98 pound weakling.
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Old 12-20-15, 06:09 AM
  #209  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
The 70's was when the low-fat craze started to take-off. The 80's and 90's was when the low-fat and fat-free craze reached it's peak.
Those were the days when our government, our doctors and our nutritionists encouraged people to abandon eating healthy fats such as dairy butter and animal/fish fats and replace them with industrial oils and fats such as vegetable oils and margarine. Instead of using butter or lard to cook or bake something, people were using hydrogenated vegatable trans fats...Just look around and see what the fat-free and low-fat diets have done to our population...The problem with removing fat from food is that it looses a lot of it's taste and nutritional value. Those lost fat calories need to replaced with something and in most cases they are replaced with sugars and starch. When you remove fat from food you're removing a lot of nutrition...Here we are in 2015 and more and more research and evidence is starting to come out and prove that fat from animal products is not the enemy.
Again, you are spouting nonsense: all pseudo-science and twisted and distorted "facts" manufactured to support an ideology...
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Old 12-20-15, 06:40 AM
  #210  
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Originally Posted by RomansFiveEight View Post
How can you tell if someone is a Roman Catholic Priest? Easy, it's the collar.

How can you tell if someone is a police officer? Easy again! It's the badge.

How can you tell if someone is a vegan? Don't worry. They'll tell you.

(No seriously, this is a cool thread and it's interesting to read. I just wanted to take the opportunity to share that joke )

On a more serious note; I used to be obese. Chalk it up to everything mentioned in this thread. Easy access to cheap processed food. Eating now organic, healthier foods (I do still eat meat; fish and chicken, hopefully I can still chat around here without being torch and pitchforked!), and I'm actually spending less. The food is more expensive but I buy a lot less of it.
Healthy diets seem to be on a continuum: at one extreme is the Standard American Diet and at the other a Whole Food Plant Based diet.

So, most agencies would agree that the diet you describe is (at least) healthier than the SAD diet. But, is it the healthiest? I, who eat a Whole Food Plant Based diet would say "No". But I also realize that eating that kind of diet is not for everybody: NOT because it is not healthy -- but because it goes against the grain of American society and is therefor hard to maintain. For example: if you are on the road and hungry where do you eat? Any meal under $10-$15 will not be on the diet (unless you count ice-berg lettuce without any dressing as part of the diet).

But, if you return to the "traditional" eating habits of the 50's & 60's, where most meals are made from scratch and eaten at home, it becomes a LOT easier.

BTW, research is conflicted about organics being "healthier". But then, that may partly depend on what you mean by "healthier". Almost everybody but Monsanto would agree that you are better off not eating the pesticides and herbicides on the GMO and non-organic foods (and hormones, heavy metals & anti-biotics in non-organic meat, fish and dairy). But as far as nutrition: Both organic and non-organic contain all the major nutrients that are typically measured -- while other research suggests that anti-oxidants and other phytonutrients are stronger in fresh, organic foods than non-organic bulk groceries...

Here's a couple highly informative, two minute videos showing:
Evidence on: "Are Organic Foods More Nutritious?"
Are Organic Foods More Nutritious? | NutritionFacts.org

Evidence on: "Are Organic Foods Safer?"
Are Organic Foods Safer? | NutritionFacts.org
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Old 12-20-15, 06:46 AM
  #211  
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Originally Posted by DosWheelsBtr View Post
People argue about the ideal lifestyle bc the science is there to support it. A wholefoods plant based diet/veganism can reduce/reverse chronic diseases that plague the western world along with help fight global warming. You can choose to have a broken family, endless entertainment, health problems, etc. It seems you have a victim complex. The lifestyle isn't rearranging the deck chairs on a sinking ship, more adapt to constantly plugging the fuggin' holes.
Short, sweet and true! I like it!
... Well said!
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Old 12-20-15, 06:49 AM
  #212  
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Originally Posted by GeorgeBMac View Post
And, it sounds like you are confusing Baby Boomers with those born in the 60's and later... The boomers were children of those you are talking about.
The generation I'm referring to were born soon after WW2, between the 1946 and 1964. Before WW2 the family unit was much stronger than the families raised by the G.I. and Silent generations. Drug abuse and alcoholism which often resulted in domestic violence became common household issues, traditional values were replaced with materialistic values. The baby boomer generation is currently in control over most aspects of modern society. Industry and science have become the new religion, with no regard to the consequences. Extremely narcissistic, self centered, attention seeking, instant gratification behaviour is the root of most current social problems. Food is just one of many social control mechanisms.
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Old 12-20-15, 06:59 AM
  #213  
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Originally Posted by Harvieu25 View Post
Yep, watch some of the public health forums and look at how many MD's are calling for a change in the diet pyramid to exclude meat and dairy. It is an indication that the old way of eating is piss poor and science has apparently known this for some time, but it has taken many years, decades to be brought to light.
Most will cling to the past in the belief that their way of eating is fine, because god forbid someone having to give up something they love...

All of us will die, and no one is saying you will live forever if you convert now, but we can reverse lots of the damage and stop most of the rest, but how many years have you already taking off your life by eating something that isn't good for you?

I converted over 14 months ago and feel so much better than I ever have! The excess energy is what led me to start cycling. But, I wish I would not have wasted 43+ yrs to find out...

Or, you can go eat some more bacon and tell us how healthy you are....
What I should have said is "I converted to a whole foods diet 14 months ago". You can be vegan and eat junk as well with all the new 'vegan' products hitting the market.
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Old 12-20-15, 07:15 AM
  #214  
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Originally Posted by DosWheelsBtr View Post
Any thoughts on the protein craze that is currently taking place? All over the place it seems every health "guru" has their own line of whey protein powder. I mean, talk about a quick cash grab.
Of all the diseases plaguing modern society, "Protein Deficiency" is just not one of them. Yet, Americans seem fixated on protein and make a slab of protein from a dead animal the center piece of every meal. Much of that has to do with marketing from the meat & dairy industries as well as the myth that eating dead animals is manly...

Yet the BlueZones have shown that the healthiest societies not only eat far less protein but mostly plant based protein.

And, few Americans realize how much protein is in plants:
The oatmeal & soy milk I had this morning contained 25 grams of protein -- which is more than a BigMac!
The P&J on Whole Wheat that I might have for lunch will contain 22 grams of protein -- which is the same as McD's Bacon, Chedder, Chicken sandwich.

As for athletes needing "More Protein": Even Arnold says: "Eat More Plants! -- I'll Be Back!"
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Old 12-20-15, 07:17 AM
  #215  
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Originally Posted by bhchdh View Post
I am 5 months into a whole foods plant based diet. Please, someone explain to me how what I eat has any effect on you, and why you care so much.
You, my friend, are a threat to their ideology...

Best of luck with your new diet and Congratulations on choosing health over convenience...
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Old 12-20-15, 07:22 AM
  #216  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Because protein is an essential nutrient, it helps with recovery, it helps with fat loss and athletes have greater needs for protein then sedentary people.




Every health guru also has their own line of cereal...I think "eating cereal for breakfast" dogma needs to die.



Majority of supplements and "exotic super foods" are a cash grab....All those "super foods" such as chia seeds, hemp seeds, aramantah seeds, quinoa, gojii berries, acai berries and few others are all a big scam...Just because some tribe in the Amazon eats something doesn't mean anything....Our health food manufacturers take these "exotic tribal foods" and promote them as having magical healing powers and a lot of westerners just fall for it and swallow hook line and sinker....You would be better off eating steel-cut oats and blueberries then some of these exotic health foods.
It's time you learned the science rather than throwing tantrums when your ideology is threatened and spouting twisted, distorted rhetoric and propaganda...

The trouble with debating you is that you cherry pick or even invent "facts" to support your ideology based diet. So, your "facts" come out as an endless stream of 90% bull...
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Old 12-20-15, 07:32 AM
  #217  
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Heart surgeon speaks out on what really causes heart disease -- Health & Wellness -- Sott.net Here you go, I have some real science for you.

Originally Posted by GeorgeBMac View Post
Yes, it is obvious from his posts: His high-fat/high-animal-product diet is based on ideology rather than science. For him and the other most vocal proponents, "facts" are created to support their ideology and then presented as real science rather than the pseudo-science it actually is...
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Old 12-20-15, 07:36 AM
  #218  
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Originally Posted by SHBR View Post
The generation I'm referring to were born soon after WW2, between the 1946 and 1964. Before WW2 the family unit was much stronger than the families raised by the G.I. and Silent generations. Drug abuse and alcoholism which often resulted in domestic violence became common household issues, traditional values were replaced with materialistic values. The baby boomer generation is currently in control over most aspects of modern society. Industry and science have become the new religion, with no regard to the consequences. Extremely narcissistic, self centered, attention seeking, instant gratification behaviour is the root of most current social problems. Food is just one of many social control mechanisms.
Your negativity may or may not be justified -- but your facts about financial & nutritional deprivation in the years after WW-II and the Baby Boomer generation's knowledge of what preceeded their generation are incorrect.
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Old 12-20-15, 07:39 AM
  #219  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Again: The trouble with debating you is that you cherry pick or even invent "facts" to support your ideology based diet. So, your "facts" come out as an endless stream of 90% bull...

I can site cardiologists who say statins have none but very rare, reversible side effects...
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Old 12-20-15, 07:47 AM
  #220  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Conclusion from the above article.

What you can do is choose whole foods your grandmother served and not those your mom turned to as grocery store aisles filled with manufactured foods. By eliminating inflammatory foods and adding essential nutrients from fresh unprocessed food, you will reverse years of damage in your arteries and throughout your body from consuming the typical American diet.
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Old 12-20-15, 08:09 AM
  #221  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post

You seem unaware of what those on a Whole Plant Based Food lifestyle eat. There is little addition to oil and salt for that matter. Most ppl I know on this lifestyle abide by those two rather consistently. It is not new science to note that oil is bad for you.
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Old 12-20-15, 08:10 AM
  #222  
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Originally Posted by GeorgeBMac View Post
Healthy diets seem to be on a continuum: at one extreme is the Standard American Diet and at the other a Whole Food Plant Based diet.

So, most agencies would agree that the diet you describe is (at least) healthier than the SAD diet. But, is it the healthiest? I, who eat a Whole Food Plant Based diet would say "No". But I also realize that eating that kind of diet is not for everybody: NOT because it is not healthy -- but because it goes against the grain of American society and is therefor hard to maintain. For example: if you are on the road and hungry where do you eat? Any meal under $10-$15 will not be on the diet (unless you count ice-berg lettuce without any dressing as part of the diet).

But, if you return to the "traditional" eating habits of the 50's & 60's, where most meals are made from scratch and eaten at home, it becomes a LOT easier.

BTW, research is conflicted about organics being "healthier". But then, that may partly depend on what you mean by "healthier". Almost everybody but Monsanto would agree that you are better off not eating the pesticides and herbicides on the GMO and non-organic foods (and hormones, heavy metals & anti-biotics in non-organic meat, fish and dairy). But as far as nutrition: Both organic and non-organic contain all the major nutrients that are typically measured -- while other research suggests that anti-oxidants and other phytonutrients are stronger in fresh, organic foods than non-organic bulk groceries...

Here's a couple highly informative, two minute videos showing:
Evidence on: "Are Organic Foods More Nutritious?"
Are Organic Foods More Nutritious? | NutritionFacts.org

Evidence on: "Are Organic Foods Safer?"
Are Organic Foods Safer? | NutritionFacts.org
I'm not worried about GMO's. In fact, I think they're brilliant. And they've been going on for centuries. Good farmers have always cross-bred plants or taken care to get the biggest yields. Over centuries crops like corn were developed through cross-breeding. By the strictest definition ALL corn is a GMO. It is not naturally occurring, it exists because of human intervention, and would not exist without humans having 'created' it. Pesticides and the like, and antibiotics (the latter only being a concern, obviously, in meat) are certainly a concern. However a world in which plants yield more, are immune to disease, require less water; that's not a bad thing. We hear "genetically modified" and conjure up images of evil laboratories and spider-man, but it's really just a fancy way of doing more intelligently and more scientifically what farmers have ALWAYS done. Given natural selection and evolution a little 'nudge' to improve their 'product'. Heck, much of our meat that we eat is indeed that same process. Fat, fast growing, big and slow. Qualities bred by selecting the right candidates for breeding over many many many years. Same with most domestic animals really, from pets to farm animals.

I don't jump on the "chemicals are bad!!!" bandwagon. Chemicals are the basics of life. Our blood has formaldehyde and other scary words naturally that people try to scare other people out of eating certain foods by claiming it's in that particular food. So fear-mongering about GMO's or "chemicals in foods" is just junk science. I notice a lot of arguing about junk science on the meat eating crowd; which is warranted. But Vegans tend to share their fair share of utter B.S. as well. Nobody is immune to confirmation bias.

One of the bigger issues of 'organic' is that there's so little to really control what that label means. Everything is 'organic' anyway. There's no such thing as a plant or animal that's not "organic", i.e., "derived from living matter". So it's just a marketing buzzword. But I use it for simplicities sake. I live in a rural area and get my produce from a local family farm. They happen to themselves be "semi-vegetarian" (self described). They have chickens, and eat the eggs. And chickens don't live forever, so while the chickens aren't slaughtered for meat, they do eat the chickens when they die. Including the roosters; which is generally not eaten (much tougher and blander meat, I'm told). But, point being, it's fresh in-season kale, spinach, and other great fruits and veggies. Though in the winter months I buy the 'flown in' stuff. They can, and eat the canned stuff. It's actually pretty common out here.

I get flack once in a while around here for living in a rural area. We're all supposed to snort smog together in some urban area to reduce our travel times, I get it. But the folks out here pretty much still do live like the 50's and 60's. Far fewer are obese than in the city an hour away. There are only a couple restaurants, which happen to both be owned by farmers who serve their own grown and raised foods. (But it is country cookin', which means they fry it all. Everything. Even the vegetables.), most cook the bulk of their meals at home, many grow their own food. Even if they don't farm, they garden. Then they can what they don't eat and that lasts through the winter.

The confirmation bias is strong in this thread though. Tossing out studies that affirm our pre-conceived notions, with little, if any, willingness to open our minds to the other side. For vegans, eating meat is always a totally immoral and selfish act with no redeeming qualities. I'm enjoying listening to people tell other people WHY they eat meat, though not really asking them why, simply TELLING them why, because it must be one of their preset ideas. And, likewise, B.S. science from the meat crowd trying to affirm their pre-conceived notion (taught to them by marketing folks; like the old 'Got Milk' ads that told us that milk is essential. It really isn't. There are better sources of protein and calcium) that veganism and vegetarianism are unhealthy and require you to 'miss out' in key nutrients, which is equally true. You need amino acids (protein), and there's no amino acid you can get from meat you can't get from plants. A diet of nothing but celery and lettuce is probably unhealthy and missing out on essentials, (as would be a diet in nothing but ground hamburger), but a varied diet contains all the nutrients needed.

Also; I have to jump on this one, what's up with the B.S. "People only eat meat because it's manly" line? So this is apparently news so 'll try to break it to you gently but, women eat meat too.

Last edited by RomansFiveEight; 12-20-15 at 08:16 AM.
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Old 12-20-15, 08:13 AM
  #223  
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Originally Posted by bhchdh View Post
Conclusion from the above article.

What you can do is choose whole foods your grandmother served and not those your mom turned to as grocery store aisles filled with manufactured foods. By eliminating inflammatory foods and adding essential nutrients from fresh unprocessed food, you will reverse years of damage in your arteries and throughout your body from consuming the typical American diet.

It's even better to eliminate animals foods entirely. The Whole Foods Plant Based lifestyle has consistently been shown to be anti-inflammatory. Eat foods that high in anti-oxidants will have the greatest impact on reducing inflammation.
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Old 12-20-15, 08:17 AM
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[QUOTE=wolfchild;18400723]Because protein is an essential nutrient, it helps with recovery, it helps with fat loss and athletes have greater needs for protein then sedentary people.

You can get all the protein one needs from just eating plant based. My qualm is with ppl sitting down and eating 12oz. of animal product a day. Also, ingesting more protein leaves on anabolic and catabolic. So your notion of wanting to have fat loss is mute.
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Old 12-20-15, 08:47 AM
  #225  
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Originally Posted by GeorgeBMac View Post
Your negativity may or may not be justified -- but your facts about financial & nutritional deprivation in the years after WW-II and the Baby Boomer generation's knowledge of what preceeded their generation are incorrect.
I am referring to the decade of the 1940's the time when that photo was taken. Those were not the financial and nutritional golden years you speak of. The 1950's was a totally different decade that had almost nothing to do with the previous decade. People who grew up after 1950 have almost nothing in common with the generation that preceeded them. Many events before 1950 have been washed down the memory hole. Getting accurate first hand information about the first half of the 20th century is becoming an increasingly difficult task.
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