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Tread climber for more pedaling strength.

Old 06-16-17, 11:06 AM
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cncwhiz
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Tread climber for more pedaling strength.

I bought my wife a tread climber. I am going to work out on it as well. Beside loosing weight, and better fitness, will this machine help with my peddling strength?
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Old 06-17-17, 10:10 AM
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Maybe a little bit, but I wouldn't use it as a replacement for actual cycling/pedaling. You might be disappointed.

Stick with thinking in terms of weight loss and general, all-around fitness.
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Old 06-17-17, 06:18 PM
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I think the real stairmaster machines help with standing leg pedaling strength
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Old 06-17-17, 06:26 PM
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Yes, not as much as doing something like squats or hilly hiking but it will definitely help.
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Old 06-17-17, 06:33 PM
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I think there is a lot of cross-over, especially in out of the saddle efforts and lower-cadence climbing. I would recommend setting it at a faster tempo than most people I see doing it in the gym.

I think it's a good way to practice lower cadence stuff while working your overall fitness in a slightly different, more load bearing way. When j did it for a short time I noticed increased power up climbs.

Also, the inverse is true, I've noticed that when I'm in good cycling shape, I can climb lots of stairs without fatiguing like my non cyclist colleagues.

However, if the question is, take 20 minutes on a stair climber vs a 20-minute targeted low cadence or out of the saddle workout on bike...I think you should find out what pros do, cuz if stair climbing worked better than bike work, they would use it.

I do known that Alberto Contador would workout by doing 20 minute stretches out of the saddle.
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Old 06-17-17, 09:33 PM
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I used to use the "stairway to hell" machines 1-2 times/week for most of the winter, once in zone 3, once in zone 2. I got better on the machine, but as far as I could tell, it didn't make the slightest difference to my cycling. I quit and put the time into my bike on the rollers instead, which helped a lot. Principle of specificity, eh?

OTOH, pure strength work, especially barbell squats, did help, I think because weight work makes a difference when one takes it to failure, regardless of the number of reps. One doesn't use the stepper to failure. A few years I did 3 sets of 30 and went much faster on the climbs. Now I do fewer reps but still to failure and it really seems to make a difference in endurance. Note that I do not replace cycling time with weight time. I add weight time without reducing the cycling.

And hear, hear for doing long intervals out of the saddle. Find a nice 500' hill and climb the whole thing standing. There's one around here we ride regularly. I know I'm pretty fit when I can do that. It's a lactate threshold workout with a little twist.
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Old 06-17-17, 09:55 PM
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Something is better than nothing, but you're probably better off climbing lots of real stairs.
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Old 06-18-17, 12:19 PM
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If you load a backpack with with 40 0r 50 pounds, it will help a lot. Other wise it is an endurance workout that would be more fun on the bike.

Last edited by berner; 06-20-17 at 11:23 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 06-18-17, 12:37 PM
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What the treadmaster does not do at all is strengthen the pulling muscles of you legs and abdomen. A step in the wrong direction if you want a really smooth, seamless pedaling style.

By complete contrast, in my racing days when it snowed, I would go snowshoing and do wind sprints across my neighbor's field. When the snow was deep, pulling the snowshoe loaded with heavy New England snow forward to take the next step was hard! And when I got back on the bike, what a benefit!

I know if the OP reads the current literature he will see the experts saying that cyclists do not pull up on the pedals (except when climbing out of the saddle). I also know that actually doing so has many benefits, both racing and not. I can ease pressure on my chronic knees simply by pulling harder and pushing less. I can save my quads for hard work later. And it is a real part of developing a really smooth pedal stroke that has all kinds of benefits (seat comfort being one of them).

Ben
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Old 06-18-17, 09:12 PM
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Weight lifting would be better.
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Old 06-19-17, 11:28 AM
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Thanks to all that replied to my post. I have to use this machine to motivate the wife to use it. I think I will use it like cross training and to help reduce my fat gut. I would never trade any machine for riding. I ride because I enjoy it.
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Old 06-19-17, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
I know if the OP reads the current literature he will see the experts saying that cyclists do not pull up on the pedals (except when climbing out of the saddle). I also know that actually doing so has many benefits, both racing and not. I can ease pressure on my chronic knees simply by pulling harder and pushing less. I can save my quads for hard work later. And it is a real part of developing a really smooth pedal stroke that has all kinds of benefits (seat comfort being one of them).
Ah, yeah, the experts.... As a long time cyclist and someone who raced once upon a time, I find this notion that cyclist do not pull up laughable. As you suggest, pulling up is quite useful for moving the work load around and using different muscles, as well as getting a sort of turbo boost for short distances and small hills. And of course it's used for climbing out of the saddle and sprinting. I recall the slot cleat era when pulling a foot out in a sprint or whatever was something that happened - and could get you dropped. That study was IMHO flawed. Sure, pulling up while spinning in the saddle will be minimal if at all, but while climbing out of the saddle, or powering over short hills in the saddle; pulling up hard is both real and useful.

Anyhow WRT to the OT, probably the best thing to make you better at cycling is more cycling. Sprinting as hard as you can over short hills works well for building strength, or intervals if you live in a flat land. For general health though, some cross training is useful. I like to hike hills myself.
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Old 06-19-17, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by cncwhiz View Post
I bought my wife a tread climber. I am going to work out on it as well. Beside loosing weight, and better fitness, will this machine help with my peddling strength?
Sure. But you have one of the all time epic climbs in your backyard. Ride up Kingsbury and get super strong.
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Old 06-19-17, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post
Sure. But you have one of the all time epic climbs in your backyard. Ride up Kingsbury and get super strong.
I lot of people ride up that hill. I could ride it but I would have to stop a bunch of times.
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Old 06-19-17, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by cncwhiz View Post
I lot of people ride up that hill. I could ride it but I would have to stop a bunch of times.
So what?
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Old 06-19-17, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by cncwhiz View Post
I lot of people ride up that hill. I could ride it but I would have to stop a bunch of times.
Exactly. And the next time, you will have to stop a little less often. And the next time a little less often than that. And eventually you'll ride up the whole thing straight. It's proven to work!
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Old 06-20-17, 11:26 AM
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If you use the machine with leg weights it will simulate pedaling more closely.
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Old 06-20-17, 01:49 PM
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You are looking for more power then doing an endurance workout on the stair climber wont help much. Look up some power exercise and plyometrics.
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Old 06-20-17, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
Ah, yeah, the experts.... As a long time cyclist and someone who raced once upon a time, I find this notion that cyclist do not pull up laughable. ...
Some do; they go slower.
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ng_performance
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Old 06-20-17, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
Not this 26 y.o. study again, which proves that riders on a perfectly flat course, on TT bikes, pedaling a high cadence . . . don't pull up on the backstroke. Yes, that was probably true back in the day. It might still be true, but I don't know of a more recent study of pedaling during that exact racing discipline, though racing practice does change.

However there aren't that many of us who practice that particular discipline anyway. More to the point might be this study of 45' pedaling at a steady power level at a 75 cadence, which is similar to the preferred climbing cadence of many of us. This study featured a pedal force feedback display which subjects used to produce a continuous positive crank torque, IOW pulling on the upstroke.

The feedback method, though new to these subjects, was found to produce superior endurance over the 45' test period. Moreover, once the subjects had 15' to learn the technique, General Efficiency (GE) was the same as when the subjects used their usual preferred pedaling technique. The researchers believe that GE for the feedback group is thus underestimated, since they were able to equal their usual GE with only 15' of training, compared to a lifetime of using their usual technique.

The study: https://www.radlabor.de/fileadmin/PDF...MSS_-_2011.pdf

Those of us who have spent many years perfecting our circular pedal strokes might find this study enlightening and validating. Now we know at least one of the reasons why our finishing sprints are so good.

A minor interesting sidelight is that the researchers happen to quote another study as finding that one-legged pedaling is best done with little to no ankle flexion. I do a lot of OLP and have observed the same thing.

I've found the best way to develop a good pedal stroke is in winter or early season to do prolonged (up to 45') pedaling at a cadence of 110-120 on a trainer or rollers while maintaining a slight gap between the sole of the foot and the insole of the shoe, IOW pedaling with the shoe's upper, not it's sole.
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Old 06-20-17, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Not this 26 y.o. study again, which proves that riders on a perfectly flat course, on TT bikes, pedaling a high cadence . . . don't pull up on the backstroke. Yes, that was probably true back in the day. It might still be true, but I don't know of a more recent study of pedaling during that exact racing discipline, though racing practice does change.
The study, like nearly all cycling studies, was performed in a lab on an ergometer setup like a road bike.

The feedback method, though new to these subjects, was found to produce superior endurance over the 45' test period. Moreover, once the subjects had 15' to learn the technique, General Efficiency (GE) was the same as when the subjects used their usual preferred pedaling technique. The researchers believe that GE for the feedback group is thus underestimated, since they were able to equal their usual GE with only 15' of training, compared to a lifetime of using their usual technique.

The study: https://www.radlabor.de/fileadmin/PDF...MSS_-_2011.pdf

Those of us who have spent many years perfecting our circular pedal strokes might find this study enlightening and validating. Now we know at least one of the reasons why our finishing sprints are so good.
Perhaps, but if you look at the data in the study it appears both groups pulled up less than all the cyclists in the earlier study by Coyle. It's likely the difference was the national class cyclists naturally had a decent pedal stroke and didn't need a feedback system to assist their pedaling.
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Old 06-21-17, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Not this 26 y.o. study again, ...
So many words. It seems to prove the point that the notion that cyclists don't pull up is hardly "laughable."
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Old 06-21-17, 07:24 AM
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While it seems a no-brainer to acknowledge that many/most cyclists pull up at various points in their pedalling...

...It also seems like common sense to acknowledge that running up stairs would HAVE to benefit cycling fitness. How could it not?
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Old 06-21-17, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by 12strings View Post
...It also seems like common sense to acknowledge that running up stairs would HAVE to benefit cycling fitness. How could it not?
That's not the right question. The question should be is stair running more beneficial than other uses of that time (including resting)?
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Old 06-21-17, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by 12strings View Post
While it seems a no-brainer to acknowledge that many/most cyclists pull up at various points in their pedalling...

...It also seems like common sense to acknowledge that running up stairs would HAVE to benefit cycling fitness. How could it not?
Better than sitting on the couch. Not as good as riding.
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