rmd5533

I ordered my first smart trainer (Tacx Vortex) last week and am looking to get back in shape for next season after sustaining a broken pelvis earlier this year. I do mainly group rides, but would like to try a few hill climb races. Which program should I subscribe to for training this winter? I hear that Trainerroad is typically recommended for building fitness, while Zwift is more fun and engaging. I'm also open to any alternatives.
Thanks!

atwl77

There's also The Sufferfest for improving your performance -- kind of similar to Trainerroad (but without the structured training plans), and is also "fun" (i.e. if your definition of fun is "suffer" ).

hubcyclist

i'm a trainerroad guy, I use zwift, but trainerroad is definitely my go to. I have yet to successfully go through a progression from base to specialty plans but I've done a lot of the sweet spot base program work and it's been a great way to (re)gain fitness. I like the plans, but you can definitely find a plethora of workouts with their extensive library. Zwift some structured plans/workouts, but I haven't seen many people really vouch for any results achieved with those.

awesomeame

Depends on your goals, really. If you're looking for hardcore training, Zwift isn't for you. Sufferfest is probably best in that aspect from what I've read.

But from the sounds of things, recovering from a broken pelvis, I'd say Zwift is a good starting point. You can ride by yourself at your leisure, or choose an easy going group to ride with and see how that pelvis holds up...you can always ride harder if you're feeling good. You can choose different routes with various elevation and see how things go in that dept too. I know it's not really well regarded as a training program, but I've been Zwifting for 2.5 weeks daily...lost 3" off the gut so far, and I'm up to 85km in one session from 27km when I started. 249 to 296 FTP increase in that time too...it's engaging and fun, try it!

Matt

zacster

When I just want an easy ride I'll do Zwift. If I want a structured training session I go with The Sufferfest. I started doing The Sufferfest when they started out years ago as an alternative to coach Troy and the Spinervals videos. Spinervals just didn't keep me motivated at all. I never made it more than 30 minutes and they were boring.

bottles

Looking to just put in trainer miles: Zwift.

Looking for full structure for the winter and beyond: Trainerroad.

Looking to hear the same crappy music over and over: Sufferfest.

zacster

But it is the music paired with the effort that I like. It isn't music that I would ever listen to by itself. I could replay a video that I used last week and I wouldn't recognize the music, that isn't what I'm focused on, but the beat keeps me going.

When I've tried putting on my own music it just doesn't quite work.

And one more thing,when I put the music on my main system, it works even better, I can feel the beat through the trainer, as can everyone else in the house. I don't do that all the time for that last reason.

At least it isn't pop or disco like they use at some spin studios.

rubiksoval

The one you'll actually get on and use is the one that'll build fitness. That's zwift for some, trainerroad for others.

I think both have a week long free trial or something of the like. I'd try both.

I'd also make sure to try a race or group ride or workout or something on Zwift. That's the best part of that program. I've never had better trainer workouts than when doing Zwift.

Freedo

[QUOTE=awesomeame;20032000]Depends on your goals, really. If you're looking for hardcore training, Zwift isn't for you. Sufferfest is probably best in that aspect from what I've read.

But from the sounds of things, recovering from a broken pelvis, I'd say Zwift is a good starting point. You can ride by yourself at your leisure, or choose an easy going group to ride with and see how that pelvis holds up...you can always ride harder if you're feeling good. You can choose different routes with various elevation and see how things go in that dept too. I know it's not really well regarded as a training program, but I've been Zwifting for 2.5 weeks daily...lost 3" off the gut so far, and I'm up to 85km in one session from 27km when I started. 249 to 296 FTP increase in that time too...it's engaging and fun, try it!

Matt[/QUOT

PaddleFoot

Yes, useful reply. I hope your first post was more helpful.

Both have free trials. Try them both, then decide. Winter can be long. Zwift makes it easy to get through and I have not had one negative experience there, quite unlike this forum.

lurker44

zwift is good an if you look on the internet, there is a website that has a couple hundred free workouts to download for zwift, most made my coaches. kinda defeats the purpose of buying both trainer road and zwift

chaadster

Zwift has a lot of good workouts. See https://whatsonzwift.com/workouts/

The biggest shortcoming I see with those is that they (most; I dunno if all) do not have target cadence numbers. Speaking as someone who has been personally coached at a cycling studio for the past four years, I think having insight into how you operate at different combos of power/cadence/hr is important to really dialing in your conditioning and maximizing your training time.

But, if you just want to work your butt off in service of getting fitter and stronger, I don't see any problem in doing the Zwift workouts. It's a super convenient, fun, and easy way to add purpose to stationary time.

TCR Rider

I agree with what has been said about riding on Zwift for fun and Trainer Road for structured training. I'm working my way back from a knee replacement 14 weeks ago and Zwift has been my salvation. I'm up to doing 50 miles on Watopia and rode 180+ miles last week. I don't feel like I'm ready for a lot of structure or riding in ERG mode yet so Trainer Road will have to wait for a bit.

rubiksoval

I disagree. Cadence is a red herring in most discussions regarding performance. Self selection is usually optimal. Specifically focusing on cadence just takes away from things that actually matter (how hard you can go and how often).

chaadster

I’m not talking about specificially focusing on cadence, nor am I talking about performance in the sense I gather you you are referencing. My point is that, in regards to training (which is not about going as hard as you can), cadence, as it relates to the trinity (i.e. power, hr, rpm), helps riders not only better understand their strengths and weakness, but how to also utilize and develop them within a training regimen, particularly when time is limited.

Further, whereas on the road, gearing, hills, wind, and other factors work together to demand different (self-selected) RPMs at various times, on a stationary bike/indoor trainer, a conscious effort has to be made if you want to train across the spectrum of RPM demands you actually see on the road. Having a program which incorporates slow cadence efforts and high cadence efforts helps you remember, perform, and track the volume you’re according to, say, anaerobic capacity, a target which is hard to train at low rpm (because legs will burn out faster) and train in a time-crunched regimen.

Speaking of time-crunched, do you also disagree with Carmichael’s integration of cadence into his workouts? CTS programs, though not stationary specific, include both low and high cadence focused workouts.

rubiksoval

I disagree with any work targeting cadence as an output. It simply doesn't matter. Youre going to choose the cadence that gets you the most power, and that will vary based on multiple factors.

In any case, specificity is my guide. Forced low cadence or high cadence has mothing to do with any performance metrics I'm trying to improve, and I doubt it does for anyone else, too. Except maybe someone on a fixed gear or the.like.

chaadster

I see, but again, I wouldn’t say the target output is cadence. Power is the target output, and cadence is a part of how you get there...whether you pay attention to it or not, of course.

As for metrics and improvement, again, I’m not saying cadence is the target. Rider conditioning and fitness is the target, and cadence is just part of how you analyze and target training and development.

To restate myself, I think putting the trinity of power, hr, and cadence in a training regimen can help develop self-awareness, belp target training, and maximize training time.

I certainly can appreciate your perspective that training for cadence as the output is not generally helpful, and I agree. I can also appreciate that in some types of regimens, for some types of riders, and for certain goals, cadence is an irrelevant metric. But for someone like the OP, an enthusiast rider recovering from a broken pelvis and looking to train on a turbo over the winter for hillclimbs next season, I think power-based workouts which incorporate cadence can be very useful.

Freedo

[QUOTE=Freedo;20047677]
Really? 47 watt increase in 2.5 weeks.
Highly doubtful lol

zacster

[QUOTE=Freedo;20051994]My guess is that he became accustomed to the machinations more than he got stronger.

I didn't do my first FTP test until I'd been riding on the trainer for about 2 months. It was higher than my estimate by about 10%, and it is remarkable how much harder that feels now in sessions.

trainsktg

Zwift has several multi-week structured programs like FTP Builder and FTP Booster, plus a few others. The Builder has a somewhat low training load, so when I did it, many weeks I would double up on sessions for two or three days in a row. The Booster program has a higher training load and also includes harder efforts like sprint intervals etc. that the Builder did not. After completing the two, my FTP was up a surprising amount considering I entered the program with alot of fitness.

I just started TrainerRoad's high volume Base tho', and I can see right away that its training load is much higher and there are alot of in-ride drills that focus on form, cadence, etc. that the Zwift programs do not have.

I'd recommend checking out the Zwift programs since they are included in your membership, and if that type of structure appeals to you, go down the TrainerRoad avenue afterwards. The first two times I tried doing the Builder program a year and a half ago, I got so bored I never made it past the second or third week, but something clicked this time around and I loved it. I dunno.

Keith

Ald1 

Keith, can you help a newbie out? Started using Zwift on a Wahoo Kicker and started the 6 week builder. It says to use big gear on sprints, which I do but it really makes no difference as the trainer adjusts the load anyway? After a sprint the trainer is spining so fast that, even though I keep up the cadence it registers 0 watts and take forever for me to add power and settle in to the lower wattage and I get a fail??
Also how do I just ride and select the gear/resistance I want for the course selected. Turn off the ERG? Thanks for any help input from anyone.

trainsktg

Regarding big gear vs small gear during sprints...I've read that the big gear is preferable but haven't really noticed differences in my performance either way. I think the 'big gear in sprints' might be for folks using rollers or dumb trainers.

Regarding the latter problem, the way I've learned deal with all changes in trainer load is to 1.) start my increased effort just prior to the trainer increasing load and 2.) back off my effort just prior to the trainer easing off. And by 'just prior' I mean as the program counts down 3...2...1... its that moment after 1 right before the actual load change. So in your specific example, instead of getting stuck with a wildly spinning trainer that takes forever to back off to a proper cadence, by reducing RPMs in that last half second while the trainer is still under greater load, the RPMs drop off almost instantly and you will not fail your effort.

Edit: I forgot the third part...yes, ERG mode is off when you are just noodling around, and you'll be shifting like outside.

Keith

sgtrobo

that's the "Erg" setting. If "Erg" checkbox is checked, it will automatically adjust the resistance to maintain the specified wattage. Uncheck "Erg" checkbox, and then you have completely control over the power output, as opposed to "Erg" setting resistance on the flywheel to force you into a specific wattage output

(hopefully that made sense)
I just discovered this yesterday.

Ald1 

Thanks. So is it correct, if I turn off the ERG mode, the trainer will still adjust the resistance according to terrain and I can choose to spin or mash?

TCR Rider

Yes that is correct. With ERG turned off you will control the resistance with your shifting adjusting according to the course profile.