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Sweared off trainers... Now I can't stop riding on them...

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Old 02-27-18, 05:56 PM
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gurk700 
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Sweared off trainers... Now I can't stop riding on them...

It's not even cold here. I live in California. I don't mind riding in the rare rainy days either so that's not an issue. I tried riding on trainer a couple years ago and hated every minute of it. I pretty much swore off them.

It wasn't the "road feel" or interactive feel of zwift or anything else that changed about the trainers that made me switch but just the fact that they are so damn efficient for training.

It all started when I tried to add more structured training in my riding. I have always added little sprints, 5 min, 20 min whatever different efforts here and there to my rides but this time I really wanted to follow a very specific program. I just couldn't out on the road. I finally gave trainers another chance and got HOOKED.

I won't specify the trainer I have or the software / training website I use as this is not about praising any of those. Any good trainer , a power meter coupled with one of the website / softwares (zwift, trainerroad, sufferfest etc) would do the trick...

Anyway just wanted to share my new found respect for trainers. Being able to ride any time during the day and getting a very efficient, kickass workout with not even a minute wasted (traffic lights, cars, etc) is very addictive. I really feel like 45 mins to an hour on the trainer on a specific hard interval is like riding really hard for 1hr 30mins or more on the road.

Nothing will replace 5+ hour thousands of feet of climbing group rides on the weekends but week day/night trainer sessions just put the whole cycling training on steroids for myself. If anything when you finally go out on the weekend, it feels that much more fun and you reap the benefits of the pain cave.

Anyone feel the same or had a similar experience with switching to more trainer rides?

PS: Having said that I still think there's great value in mostly riding outside for beginners as it's the only way to be good at bike handling, situational awareness etc.

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Old 02-27-18, 06:53 PM
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The trainer is what I use when I can't ride outside. It's a fitness maintainer, but I definitely don't improve fitness on one.

I just can't go as hard indoors and have no real desire, too. Even zwift races have gotten annoying. Just a means to an end and spring is right around the corner.
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Old 02-27-18, 07:10 PM
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I bought a trainer back in the 90s and I couldn’t stand it. I have to be outdoors. It came in handy to hold the bike in place while doing maintenance
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Old 02-27-18, 07:26 PM
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Maybe it's gonna wear out on me too! Who knows.. But for the last 2 months I've been on the trainer 6 days a week and outside for a 4-5 hour ride only once a week. The fitness gains I'm making are far faster than outside.
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Old 02-28-18, 06:36 AM
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Trainer season is over for me. I reluctantly ride it a few times every year if it’s icy or too miserable out but prefer being outdoors. I’ve got music and zwift and all the distractions and it’s not enough. It’s supposed to rain today so I’ll go for a run instead of riding.
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Old 02-28-18, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
the trainer is what i use when i can't ride outside. It's a fitness maintainer, but i definitely don't improve fitness on one.

I just can't go as hard indoors and have no real desire, too. Even zwift races have gotten annoying. Just a means to an end and spring is right around the corner.
+1
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Old 02-28-18, 07:27 AM
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Things have been a little nicer here in the northeast lately so I’ve been outside more, but I can honestly say i Kinda agree. I’m always excited to get outside and ride, but for structured training with the goal of being stronger on the bike it’s hard for me to beat the trainer. And I kinda like it.. I put on old Giro videos on you tube and get in a very specific workout within an hour to hour and a half.

Yesterday I for sure would have been better off (if gaining fitness was the ONLY goal) with a 1 hour trainer ride than the ride I did outside. I forced it in with time constraints and wallowed for an hour right in possibly the worst zones of training. Not hard enough to grow fitness, too hard to actually recover. Which of course is my fault, but I find it easier to focus on specific efforts while on the trainer. Outside I get sucked into all the things that make riding great, scenery, hills, letting my mind wander. On the trainer it’s kind of like clocking in to get to work. I am focused and driven. As a result my fitness grows faster and I can enjoy riding outside more.
I must say as well that I probably focus so much because I do have a power meter and use a structured training program. If I had to make my own workouts and rely on hr I’m not sure I would stay as focused.
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Old 02-28-18, 08:15 AM
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Nope. Still hate mine. Going to ride Zwift tomorrow morning because of a storm coming overnight and already dreading it.
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Old 02-28-18, 01:29 PM
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People who hate it : Do you do a very structured training or just ride around for fun outside?

I ask cause sometimes if it's dark outside I do my easy recovery rides on the trainer too which is way more torturous. Time doesn't seem to pass no matter what I watch / listen on the side.

But hard training? 1hr - 1.5hr flies by and my legs are way heavier than they'll ever be for the same amount spent outside.
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Old 02-28-18, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by valleysuper View Post
Things have been a little nicer here in the northeast lately so Iíve been outside more, but I can honestly say i Kinda agree. Iím always excited to get outside and ride, but for structured training with the goal of being stronger on the bike itís hard for me to beat the trainer. And I kinda like it.. I put on old Giro videos on you tube and get in a very specific workout within an hour to hour and a half.

Yesterday I for sure would have been better off (if gaining fitness was the ONLY goal) with a 1 hour trainer ride than the ride I did outside. I forced it in with time constraints and wallowed for an hour right in possibly the worst zones of training. Not hard enough to grow fitness, too hard to actually recover. Which of course is my fault, but I find it easier to focus on specific efforts while on the trainer. Outside I get sucked into all the things that make riding great, scenery, hills, letting my mind wander. On the trainer itís kind of like clocking in to get to work. I am focused and driven. As a result my fitness grows faster and I can enjoy riding outside more.
I must say as well that I probably focus so much because I do have a power meter and use a structured training program. If I had to make my own workouts and rely on hr Iím not sure I would stay as focused.
I think we're on the same page! While I'm not exactly a Cat 1 beast, I have been training with power and riding has been with 90% a performance improvement goal in mind (ofcourse social/being outside/views/etc is a welcome bonus). 3 years later and after thousands and thousands of miles, switching to trainer and that focus has resulted in a definitely noticeable acceleration in my power/strength/endurance gains. So nice to be one of the fast ones in the long group rides on the weekend as a result too instead of struggling mid-pack or behind. Makes it way more enjoyable.
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Old 02-28-18, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by gurk700 View Post
People who hate it : Do you do a very structured training or just ride around for fun outside?

I ask cause sometimes if it's dark outside I do my easy recovery rides on the trainer too which is way more torturous. Time doesn't seem to pass no matter what I watch / listen on the side.

But hard training? 1hr - 1.5hr flies by and my legs are way heavier than they'll ever be for the same amount spent outside.
The only way I can stand being on the trainer is doing a structured interval set. Outside, it's training, commuting, racing, riding for fun, riding for transportation. The gamut.
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Old 03-02-18, 10:57 AM
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I agree with the OP...for structured training, results per time used, trainer wins. A good riding week for me is two 20-30 minute hiit sessions on a trainer, and one 2 hour fast group ride. With that 3 hours (maybe 40 miles equivalent), I can hang with guys who I know ride 200-250 miles/week, but don't do structured training.

In fact, I'd take the difference even further: I can be more wiped out after a 20 minute sprint session than after a 2 hour group ride that includes a couple good climbs, and 25mph pacelines.
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Old 03-02-18, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 12strings View Post
I agree with the OP...for structured training, results per time used, trainer wins. A good riding week for me is two 20-30 minute hiit sessions on a trainer, and one 2 hour fast group ride. With that 3 hours (maybe 40 miles equivalent), I can hang with guys who I know ride 200-250 miles/week, but don't do structured training.

In fact, I'd take the difference even further: I can be more wiped out after a 20 minute sprint session than after a 2 hour group ride that includes a couple good climbs, and 25mph pacelines.
Yep! I felt like I was stuck / hit a wall in my fitness for 9 months or so with no breakthrough. I've shed 5lbs and gained more power within a few weeks and still keep improving since I've incorporated trainer rides.

And i wasn't not doing much before either. This is going from 9hrs / week outside to 11hrs (5 hrs indoors structured + 6 hrs recovery + some hard rides outside).
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Old 03-02-18, 12:44 PM
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I have made far better gains since implementing indoor structured training than I ever did when most of my riding was done outdoors. I started two years ago with an FTP of 169 and recently tested a few weeks ago at 417. (I use my trusty Favero BePro power meter in connection with my Kurt Kinetic trainer.)

My 16 year old daughter has had a similar experience. In preparing for her first century, she only did one 57-mile outdoor ride--all other sessions were done indoors on the trainer. She completed the century handily and looked like she could ride another 20-30 miles. (As her father, I also have an ulterior motive in encouraging her to ride indoors in that I've seen how many drivers are on their phones while driving. She's safer riding inside, and that gives me some peace of mind.)

Don't get me wrong--I still enjoy racing outdoors and joining in the occasional group ride. However, my time is at a premium, and I get the best return for my time and effort using indoor structured training.
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Old 03-02-18, 01:40 PM
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I started riding in late 2013, and raced in 2015. I've always ridden inside during winter/bad weather but in years past I'd just ride a ton outside without any real structure, except for some days where I'd do hills and occasionally some threshold on a local time trial loop. And, of course, the race results showed I was in ok shape but not competitive.

I've always used stuff like zwift and trainerroad, but once I got a smart trainer last Feb I really got into using the structure that trainerroad provides and the magic of erg mode, which made workouts less frustrating from a power/cadence standpoint. The proof is in the pudding, I've improved my threshold by 20w (and overall 50w due to not training last fall/winter) and I'm improving on some previously neglected areas of training (vo2max and soon anaerobic). I personally don't have the focus when I'm outside to do some of the longer interval stuff successfully. I'm really looking forward to see how my focus on quality indoor training translates to racing.
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Old 03-02-18, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by gurk700 View Post
People who hate it : Do you do a very structured training or just ride around for fun outside?

I ask cause sometimes if it's dark outside I do my easy recovery rides on the trainer too which is way more torturous. Time doesn't seem to pass no matter what I watch / listen on the side.

But hard training? 1hr - 1.5hr flies by and my legs are way heavier than they'll ever be for the same amount spent outside.
I do all structured training outside, from hour plus long sweetspot sessions to vo2 max repeats to frc workouts to sprint workouts. Stuff I won't even attempt inside.
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Old 03-02-18, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
I do all structured training outside, from hour plus long sweetspot sessions to vo2 max repeats to frc workouts to sprint workouts. Stuff I won't even attempt inside.
I'm assuming you wouldn't attempt because of a psychological reason?
Cause with the right trainer you CAN do any of those things.
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Old 03-02-18, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by gurk700 View Post
I'm assuming you wouldn't attempt because of a psychological reason?
Cause with the right trainer you CAN do any of those things.
No, I don't think you can do effective sprint workouts on a trainer. I'd question FRC workouts as well.

As for the rest, there's a certain amount of specificity I like about doing them outside. I do most vo2 stuff on hills, too. I like the hills.

Suffice to say, while you may think you can only get structure on the trainer, I find I can get that same structure on the road. Having the right roads and the experience helps a lot.
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Old 03-02-18, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
No, I don't think you can do effective sprint workouts on a trainer. I'd question FRC workouts as well.

As for the rest, there's a certain amount of specificity I like about doing them outside. I do most vo2 stuff on hills, too. I like the hills.

Suffice to say, while you may think you can only get structure on the trainer, I find I can get that same structure on the road. Having the right roads and the experience helps a lot.
I didn't mean you can't do structured on the road at all. It just takes longer cause you inevitably stop / go or if you're lucky enough to find all open roads it can be interrupted by terrain etc. Meaning sometimes terrain dictates the maximum or minimum effort you can do. If you are at a 20% hill, you can't exactly recover. If you're going 5% downhill, you can't exactly do VO2 max. You either turn around or wait till your next interval which means you're wasting a little more time or recovering more than you should etc.

What I'm saying is on the trainer, you are far more efficient. Shorter time = same results. If you have all open roads and unlimited time, nothing will ever beat the road.

As far as effective sprint workouts, I've done them on the road and on my trainer. I'll just say that you haven't tried the right trainer. You can absolutely get all the sprint training you need. If you're talking technique, it's not like you're never riding the road because you train on trainers. So you get best of both worlds.

Anyway. Again I know it's not for everyone. I was just curious to see what people think. Trainer absolutely increased the rate I gain fitness. YMMV.
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Old 03-02-18, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by gurk700 View Post
I didn't mean you can't do structured on the road at all. It just takes longer cause you inevitably stop / go or if you're lucky enough to find all open roads it can be interrupted by terrain etc.

What I'm saying is on the trainer, you are far more efficient. Shorter time = same results. If you have all open roads and unlimited time, nothing will ever beat the road.

As far as effective sprint workouts, I've done them on the road and on my trainer. I'll just say that you haven't tried the right trainer. You can absolutely get all the sprint training you need. If you're talking technique, it's not like you're never riding the road because you train on trainers. So you get best of both worlds.

Anyway. Again I know it's not for everyone. I was just curious to see what people think. Trainer absolutely increased the rate I gain fitness. YMMV.
I gotcha. You're excited about the progress you've made. Different people progress differently. The gains you're seeing are not gains that I would make because I'm at a different place in my cycling career, which is the same for most everyone. Whether or not a trainer works for someone doesn't really matter. If it does, great. If it doesn't, great, too.

What's efficient for you may not be effective for someone else. At the end of the day, effectiveness is what matters to me, not efficiency. If spending 15 extra minutes riding outside helps me finish a workout that I wouldn't finish indoors, then the indoors wasn't as effective. That's the case for me.

I doubt my idea of an effective sprint workout is the same as yours, and it doesn't need to be because my workout demands are vastly different than yours.

At the end of the day, it is what it is. If the trainer helps you accomplish workouts, awesome. I'll hop off the trainer after a 20 minute warmup to go do hill repeats in the rain if that's what necessary to get my workout in, because that's what works for me and always has.
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Old 03-02-18, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
I gotcha. You're excited about the progress you've made. Different people progress differently. The gains you're seeing are not gains that I would make because I'm at a different place in my cycling career, which is the same for most everyone. Whether or not a trainer works for someone doesn't really matter. If it does, great. If it doesn't, great, too.

What's efficient for you may not be effective for someone else. At the end of the day, effectiveness is what matters to me, not efficiency. If spending 15 extra minutes riding outside helps me finish a workout that I wouldn't finish indoors, then the indoors wasn't as effective. That's the case for me.

I doubt my idea of an effective sprint workout is the same as yours, and it doesn't need to be because my workout demands are vastly different than yours.

At the end of the day, it is what it is. If the trainer helps you accomplish workouts, awesome. I'll hop off the trainer after a 20 minute warmup to go do hill repeats in the rain if that's what necessary to get my workout in, because that's what works for me and always has.
Cool. But there are world pros who train on trainers and get good results. So level or place in cycling career has nothing to do with it Otherwise you're saying pretty much same things I've been saying in terms of preference. Whatever works is right.
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Old 03-02-18, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by gurk700 View Post
Cool. But there are world pros who train on trainers and get good results. So level or place in cycling career has nothing to do with it .
Yeah, it kind of does. My comment doesn't have anything to do with being a pro or not. It's about progress one makes when they're new to training versus progress one makes later on. They're two very different things. The progress you're describing from riding on your trainer is not the same progress I would make even if I were as gee'd up about it as you are.
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Old 03-02-18, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Yeah, it kind of does. My comment doesn't have anything to do with being a pro or not. It's about progress one makes when they're new to training versus progress one makes later on. They're two very different things.
Not new to training.
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Old 03-02-18, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by gurk700 View Post
Not new to training.
Riding =/= training.

Sounds like you're training now and showing great gains from it.
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Old 03-02-18, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Riding =/= training.

Sounds like you're training now and showing great gains from it. If you were training for years before that, why would you just now be having these significant gains?
Sure I'll give that to you. Let me put it this way so maybe I can explain myself better.

I personally, for whatever reason, find it hard to do structured training on the open road although it's possible to do for other people (like you). I've ridden hard and with purpose of performance gain from day one I hopped on a road bike and had a power meter since 2 months into riding. But I just rode hard. Didn't do specific interval training regularly enough (once every week or so) because of said personal reasons (traffic light interruptions, terrain dictating the difficulty, time it takes to do the intervals outside or just time restrictions [gearing up, gearing down, pump tires, etc etc etc]). Although I've improved a lot over those years, I felt like I've hit a wall.

I gave a second chance to trainers and started following training programs online in hopes of breaking through that wall. It has worked because trainer allows me to do structured training which I haven't been able to before, for said reasons. And in just 5 hours a week, I get more structured training per week than I have ever before. This resulted in a big performance gain as of late.

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