churnman

Ok so I finally broke down and got a smartphone which led me to get a fit bit. I am staying in the 'cardio " zone at the gym for an hour 6 days a week at the gym. I am improving, notices I am able to walk up hills without huddling and puffing.

I am doing 2 minutes moderately high intensity follow by 4 minutes of cool down or at a rate of resistance I would encounter pedaling on a flat stretch. Is there any greater benefit to doing shorter periods of extremely HI, following them with proportionally shorter recoveries?

I know I am splitting hairs jus wondering what the wisdom of experience tis here.

atwl77

The shorter intervals, i.e. sprint intervals, are designed to improve maximum power and speed, whereas longer ones (e.g. 20+ mins) are meant to improve endurance. Then there are those in between, like your 2-4min intervals, which are more towards improving your ability to hold power above your threshold and recover from those efforts.


So... different intervals serve different purposes.

canklecat

Check the GCN tutorials on YouTube. Best examples I've found anywhere for interval training geared toward the cyclist.

GCN videos vary in length from 2-3 minutes up to half an hour. All are well produced, edited, succinct, informative, entertaining and done by experts -- retired pro cyclists.

I've followed some of the HIIT and less intense interval training methods from GCN since last summer and benefited tremendously. I've seen significant improvements in my stamina, recovery from high effort, and ability to continue after a hard climb or fast sprint without needing to stop and catch my breath. As an asthma sufferer, this is a big deal. I'm much more confident in traffic now because I'm not constantly looking for a place to bail out, pull over and catch my breath before I pass out after a short sprint or hill climb.

There are many other video tutorials by well meaning ordinary cyclists, but all are poorly produced and edited, with the presenter droning on and on, with little or no actual demonstrations. Basically 30 seconds worth of material stretched into interminable length.

Others will be ego-fests of self-styled experts who've never raced professionally but will name-drop all the pros they've accidentally run into or gone out of their way to meet to boost their own YouTube channel ratings, without adding any real value. Huge waste of time. If the presenter identifies as a vegan, avoid it. That includes all of them. Not because they're vegans. Because they're terrible presenters doing ego-stroking.

Save yourself the aggravation and go straight to the GCN channel. Link above goes directly to their list of videos relevant to interval training, indoor and outdoor, High Intensity Interval Training to emphasize anaerobic capacity, and variations of interval training to improve aerobic capacity for specific tasks such as hill climbs (my weakness and primary focus).

caloso

Greater benefit for what? What are you trying to achieve?

churnman

The usual benefits of cycling related to gaining strength and endurance'

churnman

canklecat, thanks for pointing me to GCN, would not have thought of Youtube for an answer. The videos are informative.

kcblair

Yep, I second canklecat, great workouts. After years of trying to follow intervals from books and magazines, and getting burned out, I discovered GCN. I now use a variety of HIITs, 5 days a week, since mid December. Just on the few nice days we had,I rode 25 miles first day out, and climbs were so much different. I climbed known hills, using the same gear, but at a higher cadence.

Now, on in-climate days during the season, I can jump on the trainer, turn on GCN, and get a quick workout.

Let us know, what you think of the GCN HIIT's. KB.

caloso

You said you have a FitBit. Does that have a heart rate monitor function?

work4bike

I've found that once you've created a strong foundation of fitness, thru endurance training that HIIT, including the very hardest of intensities is the icing on the cake, with respect to overall aerobic fitness. It's what has brought my resting hr down to the upper 40's; and not just increased my max HR, but my comfort level at riding at an elevated aerobic level, in other words, working out in the Anaerobic zones has improved my performance in the Aerobic zones.

Anaerobic workouts do improve your Aerobic performance, but Aerobic workouts don't help your Anaerobic performance -- I can't remember where I read that, but I found that to be true in my case.

However, there is one thing to be careful of... You can injure yourself if you start off too aggressively. I injured my Achilles heels and knees from sprinting too hard on my runs; I'm still overcoming those injuries to my connective tissues, but I'm good enough to start back up in running sprints, just will be more careful from now on...

Seattle Forrest

I did HIIT training every Tuesday for a few years. I picked Tuesdays because I was reasonably well recovered from the weekend adventures by then. It was hill repeats; 3 times a month they would be against a longer hill, where I could spend 5 minutes at 110+ % FTP; 1 time per month they’d be all out on a smaller hill.

This year I’m not doing any HIIT. Heavy weights 3x per week at the gym and a 20 minute MMP 1x per month, which is a hard anaerobic workout, and also a good measure of whether this is working.

(I'm feeling strong at the end of a season of Nordic skiing.)

canklecat

I also appreciate GCN for having Matt Stephens as one of the main presenters. It's actually encouraging to see a 48 year old retired pro struggling alongside his younger colleagues. Helps put things into perspective when I'm trying to force my 60 year old body into doing things it simply cannot do anymore. So I learn to appreciate the little steps in progress.

kcblair

Hell, I'm 71 this year . I may not have the tension up (on my trainer stand) like they do, but I can do the 20, 30, 40 and 60 min. HIIT's
at the cadence and RPE that is required. Took my a while to work out the gearing, but I got it now. KB

wolfchild

There are many different types of intervals, some involve short periods of max effort followed by short rest periods, others involve slightly longer efforts followed by longer rests, others involve very short max efforts followed by longer rests. They all work, it depends what your goals are...Personally I don't do any HIIT because it would be too much and I wouldn't be able to recover. I do kettlebell workouts 3 times per week plus some other training and bike commuting... that's more than enough for me. For cardio I prefer to do a simple old fashioned LISS, an easy bike ride or a brisk walk or a hike is perfect for cardio.

CAT7RDR

+1 on the variety of professional GCN HIIT videos. There is a 50 minute HIIT session from April 2017 that will test you.

kcblair

Here I am in action....................KB

Hellgate

HIIT? You mean intervals? Kids...

canklecat

GCN and some other tutorials differentiate between HIIT and other interval training. The Tabata type HIIT involves short bursts to anaerobic capacity followed by short respites, repeated for a total of only a few minutes. Those are well suited to sprints.

I did a bunch of those last summer. They're brutal. And potentially risky when training alone on the road -- if done as some tutorials recommend it brings you pretty close to wobbling around on the verge of passing out or getting nauseated. I overdid these, 2-3 times a week, when I should have been doing only one a week. By September I was cooked, losing the gains I'd made in July-August, and needed to ease off and watch my nutrition more carefully.

Other types of intervals vary. The one I use most often is about 1 minute of hard effort followed by 3-5 minutes lighter effort, repeated for about 30 minutes. Generally I found this more workable for me and the terrain I usually ride.

Both types helped on certain types of segments I ride often. Notably recovery from sprints and short, steep hill climbs, compared with the longer roller coaster routes that go on for 20-50 miles.

gregf83 

Shorter intervals 2-5 min and below, if done properly, are not pleasant. For general fitness you'd be better off riding more and getting in more volume or if you're time constrained stretch the intervals to the 10-20 min range. If you were planning to race or were training for a specific event you might do a block of shorter intervals but they're generally not sustainable on a year round basis.

kcblair

Yep, that's plan. HIIT during the winter and maybe if I have a long stretch of in-climate weather during the season.
I try to do a variety if intervals for about 4-5 days. KB

Edit: Your right, they are not pleasant, but Man, am I going to burn up the hills this year. KB

caloso

Agreed. "Moderately" high intensity intervals of that length will not produce enough stress to cause a training response. You can get really precise if you have a powermeter. For example, one of my go-to workouts is 5 x 5' at 105-110% FTP, with 1' rest between sets. But even without a PM, you can still do these pretty well. That's like a 8.5-9 RPE, Or in English: they need to be just about as hard as you can go for the length of the interval, but take it down a notch in order to allow for repeatability.

For me they generally go: 1) uh, not so bad; 2) this is awesome! I'm flying!; 3) hmm, getting uncomfortable; 4) ugh, this sucks; 5) please kill me now. But with warmup and cool down, I'm done with these in under an hour.

On the other hand, you can do sweet spot intervals several times a week. For me that's 2x20' at 90%-95% FTP. Again, you can do these without a PM. Using a HRM, I would do them a few beats below LTHR. More like 6.5-7 RPE. Or in English, moderately hard. If I have enough time, I will do 2x30' or 3x20' just to mix it up. These should leave you satisfyingly tired, but not drained.

OBoile

Nice but I have to ask: how are you not overheating? Indoors I'm puddle of sweat that's down to just my bike shorts after about 5 minutes and my wife doesn't want me sitting on any of the furniture when I'm done until after I shower.

kcblair

That video was for demonstration purposes. I keep my Man-Cave cool in the winter (60) and have a small fan blowing on me , placed on a stand in front of the bike. KB

OBoile

Ah that's probably a difference. I also have a fan, but keep my basement at 21 or so (72 for you old fashioned types).

gregf83 

I wasn't suggesting HIIT during the winter. If you do HIIT all winter you (or at least I) wouldn't be interested in working hard during the season. Most riders concentrate on building a base in the winter not blowing their brains out on HIIT. Typically, you would save the HIIT for before you're planning a peak.

gregf83 

I've also found 6x5x1 @ 106-108% to be one of the most effective interval sets. The last two are always a mental challenge to get through.