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Specific Workouts for Anerobic Endurance and Power?

Old 03-28-18, 08:21 AM
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Specific Workouts for Anerobic Endurance and Power?

My current three week build phase focuses on speed, endurance and muscular endurance.

The next three week build phase adds anerobic endurance and power and I'm looking for suggestions on specific workouts to address these limiters.

I don't use a power meter and have no plans to do so. I am however, very familiar with heart rate training, know my LT and will be testing it again at the end of the next recovery week.

I also don't use Swift or a trainer but have both high cadence rollers and very good resistance rollers. I also have a fixed gear bike with fairly tall gearing which can be used either on hills or long, flat rail trails.

Thanks for reading and thanks for any suggestions on specific workouts you might have.


-Tim-
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Old 03-28-18, 08:37 AM
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HR isn't much value to anaerobic intervals as it's too slow to respond. I would find a short hill that takes 30 to 90 seconds to climb and do 5 to 10 repeats with 3 to 5 min rest between intervals. Goal is to ride them close to all-out at a steady pace, i.e. as hard as you can go while maintaining steady power. I'd use the geared bike as you'll likely end up putting out lower power with the fixed gear due to sub-optimal gearing.
I've got a local hill with 50-60m of elevation and 10-15% slope that is perfect for these intervals. My arms end up quivering at the end of a session. They're kind of painful but on the bright side your workout won't take long

Here's a typical workout for me. I have power but don't really look at it when doing the hills. I mix up the gearing a little and do some sitting and some standing:


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Old 03-28-18, 09:16 AM
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I use the GCN sprint and power workouts on you-tube. There are a bunch. They work well for me, many of them are about 30 minutes.
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Old 03-28-18, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by gregf83
do 5 to 10 repeats with 3 to 5 min rest between intervals.
Please help me understand repeats vs intervals.

Does this mean climbing the hill a total of five to ten times with rest between each climb?

Or are the climbs done in groups of 5 to 10 with rest between each group?


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Old 03-28-18, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH
Please help me understand repeats vs intervals.

Does this mean climbing the hill a total of five to ten times with rest between each climb?

Or are the climbs done in groups of 5 to 10 with rest between each group?


-Tim-
3 mins on, 5 mins rest, repeat 5-10 times. Something to be aware of when doing these based on rate of perceived exertion (RPE) and/or HR is that power will drop at the same RPE and/or HR towards the end of the repeats, so start the first few a bit easier than "all out" and finish with everything you've got.
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Old 03-28-18, 02:10 PM
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See the "Workout Cookbook" sticky at the top of the Road Racing forum ("the 33"): The BikeForums.net workout recipe book

Anaerobic Capacity Workouts:
Waterrockets Intervals (WRIs)
Solid warmup
6 sets of:
1' interval:
Solid sprint to start off the interval, and hold max intensity until the end
5 minutes rest
Limp home


Pyramid Intervals
Good Warmup
"On" Intervals of 1-1-2-5-2-1-1 minutes
5 minutes rest in between
Cool down


Tabata Intervals
Set:
20" sprint
10" rest
Do 8 sets (4 minutes total) for a block.
Rest 4 minutes between block
Do as many blocks as possible.


Halvsies
Take a nice long warm up. Then do:
2 x 30s; 2 x 20s; 3 x 10s; 3 x 5s . Your effort is at your hardest effort. You can use your peak power values for the same duration, as your carrot to chase if you want Ride the rest of the workout easy.


30 Second Efforts
This session is based on work intervals with only 30 sec of rest in between. You begin by doing 30 sec efforts, but over time (weeks/months) you progress to 45 seconds and then 1:00. Warm up at least 10 minutes.

Do as many repetitions as possible of 30 sec of all out work (not so hard that you can’t finish the 30 sec) and 30 sec rest, without hesitation, shooting for 10 total. No worries if you cannot do 10 in a row at first. This is merely your goal to shoot for. The first few are going to feel much better than the rest, as the fatigue of repetition will set in. Afterwards, ride easy. You can then throw in a few more efforts if you really want, but it’s not necessary. Repeat every 10 days. When you can do 10 in a row, change the timing to 45 seconds. When you can do 10 of those in a row, then change it up to 1:00.
The 6x1' at the top is dead simple: go as hard as you can for a minute, recover, and do it again. No need for a PM or HRM, just a timer.
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Old 03-28-18, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH
Please help me understand repeats vs intervals.

Does this mean climbing the hill a total of five to ten times with rest between each climb?

Or are the climbs done in groups of 5 to 10 with rest between each group?


-Tim-
repeats = intervals. I use them interchangeably. The chart I attached shows 6 intervals of about 1:30 with approx 5 min rest in between. It also illustrates why HR is not particularly useful as it is changing during the interval and never steady.
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Old 03-28-18, 08:36 PM
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Anaerobic generally implies HIIT, not just any ol' interval training. The Tabata protocol is mentioned pretty often. It's brutal, with shorter periods of rest than exertion.

I'm not sure I ever managed a full 20 seconds of maximum effort. More like 10-12 seconds. And as the workout went on my rest periods got longer and longer.

I wouldn't recommend it in solo training on a bike outdoors, at least not on public roads. When I tried it last summer I was wobbling around the bike, on the verge of barfing and passing out.

If I attempted that type of HIIT again I'd do it in a gym on a stationary bike, or at a minimum on a home trainer other than rollers. Anything to minimize worrying about falling!

I switched to other types of interval training that probably don't really dig as deeply into anaerobic conditioning, which mainly emphasizes sprints and short climbs. I was primarily trying to improve my climbing and our hills are often short, steep roller coasters. So rather than arbitrarily imposing a training regiment on uncooperative terrain, I used the existing terrain itself. The exertion/rest periods aren't timed precisely, but they're pretty close. It helped. My times have improved on relatively short segments.
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Old 03-28-18, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by caloso
See the "Workout Cookbook" sticky at the top of the Road Racing forum ("the 33"): The BikeForums.net workout recipe book



The 6x1' at the top is dead simple: go as hard as you can for a minute, recover, and do it again. No need for a PM or HRM, just a timer.
You're a killer, bad man. I've never managed 6.

Edit: Ooops. For some reason, I thought WRIs were 6X1X1 so I never got past 4 of those. But 6X1X5 wouldn't be bad. I've done many 6X45"X5.
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Old 03-29-18, 09:48 AM
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For years, I致e done hill repeats every Tuesday (when I知 mostly recovered from the weekend, and have time to recover for the coming weekend). Mostly I壇 use a power meter to titrate my efforts, but, like [MENTION=127275]gregf83[/MENTION], I stopped looking down so much during the exercise.

This year I知 not doing any HIIT. I知 going to be doing a 20 minute MMP test monthly, which is a brutal workout, and lets me know if I知 on the right track or not. Otherwise my plan is to do a lot of riding at different intensities, to lift heavy in the gym, take my creatine, and, like [MENTION=418370]canklecat[/MENTION], take my intervals as the hills and wind deliver them to me.

I知 sidelined for a few weeks with an injury. Can still swim, and I can sort of hobble around on skis until they stop grooming Sunday.

Originally Posted by canklecat
So rather than arbitrarily imposing a training regiment on uncooperative terrain, I used the existing terrain itself. The exertion/rest periods aren't timed precisely, but ...
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Old 03-29-18, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
You're a killer, bad man. I've never managed 6.

Edit: Ooops. For some reason, I thought WRIs were 6X1X1 so I never got past 4 of those. But 6X1X5 wouldn't be bad. I've done many 6X45"X5.
No, these are recover as long as you want. Usually 5-ish minutes. There's another workout I do from the cookbook that's 6x5' with 1' recovery between intervals. That's at 105-110% of FTP. It's an FTP raiser, not a anaerobic capacity workout.
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Old 03-29-18, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by caloso
See the "Workout Cookbook" sticky at the top of the Road Racing forum ("the 33"): The BikeForums.net workout recipe book



The 6x1' at the top is dead simple: go as hard as you can for a minute, recover, and do it again. No need for a PM or HRM, just a timer.
The post behind that link is very good.

Thank you for pointing it out.


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Old 03-29-18, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
You're a killer, bad man. I've never managed 6.

Edit: Ooops. For some reason, I thought WRIs were 6X1X1 so I never got past 4 of those. But 6X1X5 wouldn't be bad. I've done many 6X45"X5.
30- 60 second max efforts should have 8-12 minutes recovery between each.

The shorter the recovery, the more aerobic the effort. To properly target specific maximal power outputs for these durations, full recovery is necessary.
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Old 03-29-18, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH
My current three week build phase focuses on speed, endurance and muscular endurance.

-Tim-
If you want to improve power, typically doing a max effort at that duration and then doing repeats of 95% or so of that power is a decent enough start to get you going. With heartrate, hitting a corresponding hr should do the trick as well. The shorter and harder the effort, the longer the recovery.

Speed is a separate issue from power. Generally I focus on power and then start transitioning to getting that power to equal speed. Position is one of the biggest factors in that regard, but equipment follows quickly after. Depending on your current setup, latex tubes with fast tires could net you a 1/2 to 1 mph increase. It's a massive difference and it's relatively cheap speed.

Muscular endurance comes from training more, longer. The more you train, the more you can train, and the more harder training you can do, which, when coupled with appropriate recovery, is what you need to get faster and stronger.
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Old 03-29-18, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval
30- 60 second max efforts should have 8-12 minutes recovery between each.

The shorter the recovery, the more aerobic the effort. To properly target specific maximal power outputs for these durations, full recovery is necessary.
I'll do 'em next week on my resistance rollers. It's time.
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Old 03-29-18, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval
Depending on your current setup, latex tubes with fast tires could net you a 1/2 to 1 mph increase. It's a massive difference and it's relatively cheap speed.
I just lost 28 lb over the past 3.5 months - was 199 and am now down to 171.

This alone was good enough for 1 to 1.5 MPH increase in average speed but the real benefit is that it is so much more fun to ride, especially climbing.


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Old 03-30-18, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
I'll do 'em next week on my resistance rollers. It's time.
You're a brave soul! I would most certainly fall off of rollers trying anything remotely like that.

I do mine on a 12% hill that I can very quickly turn around on when the minute is up. They're very puke-festy and I'm typically falling all over myself by the end of them.
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Old 03-30-18, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH
I just lost 28 lb over the past 3.5 months - was 199 and am now down to 171.

This alone was good enough for 1 to 1.5 MPH increase in average speed but the real benefit is that it is so much more fun to ride, especially climbing.


-Tim-
Wow. Way to go!
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Old 03-30-18, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval
You're a brave soul! I would most certainly fall off of rollers trying anything remotely like that.

I do mine on a 12% hill that I can very quickly turn around on when the minute is up. They're very puke-festy and I'm typically falling all over myself by the end of them.
Well, maybe I'm doing it wrong. I like doing this sort of stuff on my rollers instead of outside in the rain. Other than that, I like doing very high effort intervals, other than sprint intervals, on my rollers. I like to ride them at high cadence, 96-100, so my legs don't drop out. That's close to 30 mph on my resistance rollers and speed is your friend on rollers, so control is pretty easy if one is smooth.

I've done this sort of thing enough that I know about what speed (power to you) to hold so that I can reach the 1 minute mark without losing it. I've never felt like barfing if there was good recovery time, but I do on 1:1 or Tabata type intervals.

My issue with these is that I have to be well rested to do them. If my HR won't come up during the interval, my muscles won't do the deed and I have to quit. Since 1' is so short, it has to be able to come up quickly so my muscles and lungs get the blood volume they need to perform.
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Old 03-30-18, 10:38 AM
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I practically fall off the bike on a flat straight road after 1'. I would definitely fall off rollers.
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Old 04-01-18, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
My issue with these is that I have to be well rested to do them. If my HR won't come up during the interval, my muscles won't do the deed and I have to quit. Since 1' is so short, it has to be able to come up quickly so my muscles and lungs get the blood volume they need to perform.
The idea of these short intervals is to build anaerobic work capacity hence increased blood flow is not really necessary. Your HR will rise but it likely won't get close to your max if you're reasonably rested before you start.

For short intervals most of your energy output will be coming from anaerobic sources. One of the primary methods for measuring anaerobic capacity is to look at the maximal accumulated oxygen deficit (difference between predicted and actual oxygen demand during a high intensity interval). An early research paper on the subject,
Anaerobic capacity determined by maximal accumulated O2 deficit was co-authored by Tabata who many are familiar with.
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Old 04-01-18, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by gregf83
The idea of these short intervals is to build anaerobic work capacity hence increased blood flow is not really necessary. Your HR will rise but it likely won't get close to your max if you're reasonably rested before you start.

For short intervals most of your energy output will be coming from anaerobic sources. One of the primary methods for measuring anaerobic capacity is to look at the maximal accumulated oxygen deficit (difference between predicted and actual oxygen demand during a high intensity interval). An early research paper on the subject,
Anaerobic capacity determined by maximal accumulated O2 deficit was co-authored by Tabata who many are familiar with.
Thanks, I'll have a look at that. Makes sense. My feeling is that without adequate blood circulation, somethings not optimal. Low CO2 removal, too high acidification? Much easier for me to do these if I'm fresh than tired with no HR. Just my experience.
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Old 04-02-18, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
Thanks, I'll have a look at that. Makes sense. My feeling is that without adequate blood circulation, somethings not optimal. Low CO2 removal, too high acidification? Much easier for me to do these if I'm fresh than tired with no HR. Just my experience.
They're painful at the best of times so being fresh probably makes them easier to take. Unfortunately, when you need to sprint at the end of a race you're never fresh
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