JA TREK

Hi guys. I just have a quick question. I'm female, 36, in good shape, I'm slender but not sickly thin. I tend to have lower blood pressure. My doctor's tell me it's a good pressure and goes right along with my build and the fact that I'm athletic (I've been riding horses since age 5).

Yesterday I went on my longest ride at 19.3 miles. The longest I've gone before that was 10. Today when I woke up I felt fine. During my shower I became dizzy. I got out and felt shaky, dizzy, sweaty, and was white in the face. Keep in mind I also have bad seasonal allergies and anxiety with occasional panic attacks. The anxiety is health related, meaning if I don't feel well I start to panic and think the worst. With cycling, am I at risk for lowering my BP even more? I know I need to increase my calories, which I'm trying to work on. Anyways getting back to today, I ate a protein bar, drank Gatorade, and took a Claritin. I'm feeling a little better and my color has come back. I just don't want to start associating cycling with feeling ill the next day. Do you have any advice or opinions about this? Thanks!

mcours2006

How hard was the 19 mile ride? Unless it was an all-out effort, I am inclined to think that the two things aren't necessarily related. And I would ask if this has happened before as well.

When I'm down on a squatting position for a long time, like browsing the bottom shelves at the library, and then get up I would always get light-headed/dizzy, and I would have to just lean on something until that sensation goes away, usually within ten seconds. I attribute that to perhaps a reduction in blood flow to the head.

In any case, if it happens more often you might consider seeing a doctor.

cyclintom

Firstly, you have no business asking a bunch of laymen about medical problems you may have.

Secondly, 19 miles is not a long distance. This should have no effect on you or your blood pressure if you are reasonably in shape as your claim. You didn't say what your blood pressure was. I am 73 years old and my blood pressure from continuous riding is 120 over 70. This is low enough that if I've been sitting around watching TV that is boring that when I get up I feel dizzy for the amount of time it takes my heart to respond to more activity - a second or two. I was just hit by a car a month ago and the responding ambulance medic was surprised that after being hit I had blood pressure of 140 over 70.

Feeling dizzy in the shower isn't unusual for me since I take anti-seizure medication due to a serious concussion in 2009. One of these medications is also used by people with Diabetes so if you have that problem due to age which isn't unusual you might have dizziness at odd times from that.

But again - any medical problem that worries you should be addressed to your GP. And if you do not have faith in his judgement find another whose judgement you trust.

cb400bill

Thread moved from General Cycling to Training and Nutrition.

JA TREK

The ride wasn't too awfully hard. It was a nice 70 degrees, light winds, and my tracker said 395 elevation gain. This has happened before. In the past I always attributed it to low blood sugar or allergies.

I have the same thing when going from squatting to standing. I actually did just go see my doctor a week ago for the dizziness. I rarely go to the doctor, as that's part of the anxiety (white coat syndrome lol). She just told me to make sure I eat light protein snacks before bed after riding the bike, and also that seasonal allergies are in full effect. She also thinks my anxiety exacerbates the symptoms, though she believes they are real.

While I certainly understand that no one here is a medical professional, I was interested in learning if others ever have any issues from cycling. I know it's actually really healthy for us, but I'm trying hard to learn about nutrition and pacing myself when training. I have read numerous post's about people "bonking" and the thought of that scares me.

I didn't think 19 miles was all that much either. That's probably the anxiety getting the best of me, making me think I overdid it. While I didn't check my bp yesterday, it generally runs around 100/70 sometimes a little higher, but never above 120/80.

I am so sorry to hear about your accident! That must have been really scary. I haven't done blood work in a few years, so I do plan on getting that done this week as I have the scripts and I keep putting it off.

The more I think about what happened today, the more I lean towards seasonal allergies that caused the physical sensations and then sent me into high anxiety and overanalyzing everything. Thank you for the reply I appreciate the info.
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gregf83 

If you have low blood pressure, regardless of cycling, you'll be more susceptible to feeling light headed or dizzy if you get up to quickly. The one thing cycling can do is cause dehydration. I have normal blood pressure, 120/80, but after a longer ride it's fairly easy to get dehydrated and I'll feel dizzy and light headed when getting up from sitting down. If you're light it might be easier to get dehydrated and that coupled with low blood pressure will often cause the dizzyness. A friend who is thin and 6'8" always has to get up slowly in stages to avoid fainting.

JA TREK

That makes sense. Now you have me thinking about the dehydration factor, as I know darn well that I don't drink enough. I'm going to work on increasing my intake. I do bring water with me on the rides, but even before cycling I always have had the issue of just not drinking enough during the day. Thanks for the reply!

canklecat

Probably unrelated to the bike ride, since the dizziness occurred the next day. If you were dehydrated from the bike ride you'd have felt the effects sooner. But, sure, it's a good idea to drink enough water, with or without electrolytes, eat adequately, etc.

Syncope can be related to blood pressure, but you or your medical professional would need to do repeated tests to find out. If you have a BP cuff, can do so safely at home -- have someone near by to steady you if you get dizzy, and have a soft place to land -- you can do repeated standing/sitting BP checks. Try it at various times throughout the day. You may be more prone to BP related dizziness first thing in the morning, or at other times.

A hot shower or bath draws blood to the skin, away from the brain. Perfect recipe for dizziness. Happens to me when I stand after a hot soaking bath. And I don't have low blood pressure -- mine ranges from normal to slightly elevated. But I have swollen thyroids that partially occlude blood flow, a peculiar complication most folks won't experience unless they have thyroid problems.

cyclintom

Maybe we should disabuse you of some of the terms you've heard:

"bonk" is nothing more than your body running out of carbohydrate fuel. Almost all people in the western world have sufficient fat stores that bonking only forces them to slow down to the rate that you can metabolize fat. In other words - you become very slow. This might be dangerous to people from third world countries that have little fat storage and organs crippled from malnutrition but it means little to an American.

Training hard and shooting your heart rate up to near max is fine for someone in their twenties but should not be done for people much older than that. Most of the people I see who think they are training are damaging themselves more than training. During training MOST of your riding is at a medium effort. You occasionally use maximum efforts but this is to increase the level of your max rate and so increase the levels of your moderate levels and not as an everyday occurrence. "The Bicyclist Training Manuel" by Joe Friel has a very good method. But as a moderate cyclist you can increase your level simply by riding often at a comfortable level.

My accident was overdue. The manner in which drivers presently drive in California is so bad that I was getting to overconfident in the ability of drivers to maintain attention to their tasks. My injuries were relatively minor and should all heal to normal health. I just went out on a 38 mile ride with 2200 feet of climbing and was rather surprised to be able to do 12% climbing in a 53-25. I haven't been able to do that for quite some time. And now I am extremely aware of the poor driving habits of a small percentage of drivers.

WizardOfBoz

+1 There really is no secondly here.

Run down the answer with someone who 1) is trained to understand physiology, and 2) is licensed to practice medicine, and 3) who has your medical history, and 4) has done an interview and a physical exam and has ordered and gotten results from tests (e.g. a blood panel).

Because 1) Everyone is different and the same symptoms may indicate a way range of issues from (for example) completely innocuous to very serious, 2) anyone giving medical advice to you here is very literally breaking the law, 3) you are different from everyone else and knowing the key differences helps with diagnosis and treatment, and 4) the advice you get without someone knowing your personal complete picture is very iffy, and anyone willing to give you advice without that complete picture is an idiot and you shouldn't listen to them.

I was an EMT, and I do medical research, but I'm not a physician. Get in to see your doc: he or she is equipped and motivated to get answers for you.

cyclintom

When was the last time you EVER heard of a conversation covered under the Freedom of Speech clause of the Constitution ever even attempted at being prosecuted as any sort of illegal medical advice?

WizardOfBoz

I had an acquaintance, about fifteen years ago, who gave advice on how to use gingseng and other plants to cure disease. He got a visit from the police and they hauled him in and charged him for practicing medicine without a license. Spent a short amount of time in prison for it. So it happens, and I'd make the case that it should happen more.

I may be more sensitive to this because I do medical research (I'm an engineer that writes math model of disease and drug action) and I read advice that (even with my limited EMT knowledge of medicine), makes me cringe. Some of this advice is likely to kill people. Frankly, it HAS killed people. Steve Jobs had a very treatable cancer with a high likelihood of survival. He listened to voodoo from the internet rather than competent medical advice, and he's dead. Given the numbers of people involved, there are a lot of people who've died because they followed internet-given advice.

Twenty years ago a complete crackpot named Andrew Wakefield advocated the idea that measles-mumps-rubella vaccinations cause autism. This false theory was then amplified by the internet, notably by the well-known "medical doctor", porn-star, and epidemiologist Jenny McCarthy. The article was retracted, and Wakefield has his medical license revoked (for unethical behaviour, misconduct and fraud). But in the the internet echo chamber, no false theory ever dies. Even after comprehensive meta-analysis of massive amounts of data found no link at all. As a result of people reading (to use a phrase) "fake science" kids are going to die prematurely, or end up mentally impaired. Europe has had a four-fold increase in measles, and 35 measles deaths last year - all preventable. In my view, Wakefield and McCarthy should be help accountable for these deaths and any mental impairment that's occurred due to measles where parents didn't get the kids vaccinated. In a court, at law.

If your point is that people say all sorts of stupid stuff on the internet, every day, often without repercussion, I agree. There's a lot of things that shouldn't be said, though. Because they're mean, or untrue, or unproductive. Or medical advice.

cyclintom

Forgive me, but you think that any court would even look at someone asking other people if they get dizzy? I'm an electronics engineer that has worked on so many medical instruments that I can't even remember. I designed the electronics of the machine that we used to detect HIV in the blood banking system.This saved millions of lives. I've designed cancer detecting instruments of several types. And I have NEVER seen any worse medical advice than by the majority of MD's in the US today.

My brother had extreme pain in his back radiating across his right shoulder. I took him to the ER. They had him there for 10 hours taking X-rays and cat scans. At the end of that time they told him that they could find nothing wrong with him and that he must have pulled a muscle in his back. The next day it was worse and I took him to yet another ER and got EXACTLY the same assessment. The third day it was worse and his wife and I got him to still a third ER. After yet another 10 hours of X-rays and a dozen doctors opinions we got the same results.

On the forth day my brother had an appointment with his podiatrist. His wife brought copies of his X-rays with us and she had to beg the podiatrist to look at them since it was outside of his specialty. He brought the pictures up on the screen and barely looked at them and called yet another ER and told them to prep for emergency surgery immediately. I drove him down to this hospital and they met him with a gurney and wheeled him directly into surgery where he was for 10 hours. He spent another 10 days in the ICU and another 7 days in the recovery ward. He had severe pneumonia with half of his right lung collapsed and the cavity filled with pus.

I had a concussion and was knocked out for over 5 minutes and since I was walking and talking when I got to the ER they simply released me. Trouble was I had extensive brain damage and was convulsive and lived alone. I later was in the ER with someone else and asked them WHY I hadn't at least been kept overnight for observation and the doctor actually laughed at me and asked, "why?".

I had no short term memory and the seizures were the sort that I could not remember afterwards. I was involved in four car accidents in which I totaled my cars only luckily not hurting anyone else. None of the doctors consulted could find any problems. I lost 42% of my body weight because I couldn't remember to eat. Finally my best friend - a retired NCIS agent - managed to argue my GP into getting a second opinion with the Professor of Neurology at Stanford who immediately knew what a concussion was and how it was treated. Virtually all neurologists end up treating Alzheimers or other Dementias and haven't a clue how to treat concussion. I was literally within hours of dying from malnutrition and my friend had to beg my GP to get a 25th opinion.

So as far as I'm concerned, the majority of doctors should lose their licenses to practice medicine and they should also have to have bi-yearly tests to RETAIN their medical licenses.

Pizzaiolo Americano 

Claritin can cause dehydration...My wife doesn't take it when doing heavy exercise for that reason.

WizardOfBoz

Tom (if I may), you've given an pretty scary account of several cases where trained physicians - supposedly the folks who aren't supposed to make mistakes - have made horrible mistakes. I can understand your skepticism about docs. I'm skeptical, too.

But when you say " I have NEVER seen any worse medical advice than by the majority of MD's in the US today " are you saying that the advice of MDs, on average, is worse than internet advice from folks who are untrained in medicine, have no clue about statistics (specifically, the statistics of n=1), and have personal prejudice or a desire to "be somebody"? I mean eventually, your brother and you found good docs (the podiatrist, of all people, and the professor of medicine at Stanford - that's quite a range!). Would internet advice have diagnosed and treated your brother or you correctly?

There's a couple of issues your experience bring up. The first is whether folks should check and double check and be responsible for there own health care, getting second opinions and such. They should. The second is whether an over skeptical attitude towards MDs and trained medical people has a corrosive and negative effect on people's health. As in Jenny McCarthy's anti-vax lunacy. You're obviously an intelligent guy (your inventions are very cool - I've a MS EE and used to build Ham radios and the medical device inventions are fascinating) and you've had two highly negative experiences with Docs. But what if this is somewhat unusual, and what if its an overgeneralization that causes someone with a cough to not see the doctor and has their collapsed lung and pneumonia kill them? Or if an overly negative account of docs has someone with a little black dot on their toe not see the dermatologist? Or if an overly rosy internet account causes a well-known technology leader to rely on acupuncture, dietary supplements, and juices, avoiding the surgery which had a very high likelihood of success?

My point would be that, on average, you are FAR more likely to get effective treatment by seeing a trained physician who does a physical exam and gets the appropriate lab tests done. As opposed to the medical advice offered on the internet.

The issue about not keeping you for observation for 24 hours after traumatic syncope seems very stupid, and the cavalier attitude (e.g. "why?") from the doc marks him/her as a doc to avoid. There's two issues. the first is the Doc's competence motivation - the desire to do a good job treating people. Clearly one could suspect that both were lacking. The second is our health care system and the hospital management that has resulted. I have a close relative who works in a hospital, and after hearing the goings-on their I was astounded. I complained in a note to my cousin, who is a professor of neuro-oncology and surgery. So he's not just a brain surgeon - he's a professor of brain surgery. I wrote:
"Jimmy, hospital management SUCKS!". He responded
"Thanks for the news flash, Jack.".
There are such high stakes for admitting or not admitting, that hospitals are taking medically inappropriate (to judge by your anecdotes) actions, apparently to avoid costs. So there can be reasons for skepticism there, too.

But I restate my premise: you are asking for even worse results than you cite above if you look for medical advice from a forum on mostly non-physicians, none of whom have the patients medical history, none of whom have personally interviewed the patient, and none of whom have done a physical exam.

Thanks also for sharing your background, and the medical horror stories. I hope people will get the message "I need to check and double check the medical service I get, because its my life and I'm responsible", and not "I should give up on trained health care providers and seek medical advice on the internet from untrained strangers".

rumrunn6

FWIW sometimes I get "the shakes" in the morning if I have coffee & frozen waffles. I chalk it up to too much caffeine or carbs. usually having some sliced turkey or cheese will help it settle down. so I try to have something else with breakfast, along the lines of a protein like frozen sausage, etc. such as what I had this morning. a better breakfast for me would be eggs & bagel, water & coffee, such as what I had Sunday morning. Saturday morning I had left over pizza with shaved steak & onions & that worked out well

Seattle Forrest

I can overheat in the shower and get sweaty as a result.

CycleryNorth81

The doctors and hospital in the three ERs need to be sue for misdiagnosis if that is the case. Period.

rseeker

Could you say more about that? I haven't saved any citations, but I thought HIIT (not just bike-related, but exertion of any kind) was being recommended for all kinds of benefits?

Machka 

Did you have an extra glass of water after the ride? If not ... do that next time.

Do you have a bottle of water on your bicycle, and did you drink it while riding? If not ... do that next time.

cyclintom

You are probably correct but this is California and they are pretty much protected.

cyclintom

Well, from memory: Joe Friel's training manual shows weekly training schemes. If you are simply training you normally ride at LOW intensity for 5 days out of the week and MODERATE intensity a couple of days apart. For build up on race training you use less intensity generally but for a couple of days before the race you go to HIGH intensity in order to peak your condition. For race week you use MODERATE and LOW intensity most of the week. Two days before the race you go to HIGH intensity but not race high. Then the day before a race you use LOW intensity in order to recover for race day.

There is also the problem of losing muscle mass as you age. There is simply nothing you can do about this. You can lift weights and do all sorts of extreme exercises and it will only slow muscle mass losses and not stop them. Also you have to have a LOT of sleep and a good diet to recover and benefit from moderate or higher exercise.

So while all these jerks are riding at high-moderate intensity in club rides they are not really training - they are keeping their bodies exhausted and incapable of improving.

I have a local hill road that has a lot of 12% sections on it. I wanted to test my Time VX because I'm putting it up for sale. The gearing is really high but after 8 hours of sleep I managed to average 12+ mph in 38 miles with 2200 feet of climbing with a low gear of 39-25 and most of the climbing done in a 23. This is not fast for a 28 year old but for me at 73 it certainly impressed me. I rode moderately and let the hills add the intensity I was looking for. The next ride should be today up a 5 mile 7-9% grade but I have to go to the *&))*& DMV and stand in line the entire day.

Carbonfiberboy 

Sounds like low blood sugar to me, especially the sweating and white face. Happens to me fairly frequently. Think about what you ate both during and after the ride, its glycemic index, and the timing of the food in relation to the ride end and the shower. In my case, a mix of a little carbs and fat fixes me right up, gotta be both.

rseeker

@JA TREK , it might be worth getting a blood sugar meter and checking yourself the next time you get these symptoms. I think the cheapie meter at Walmart is like $15 (Relion Prime) and a box of strips maybe $10 for 50. I don't know if the finger pricker is included, probably similarly-priced if not. No prescription needed, you just walk in and pick it off the shelf near the pharmacy.

I know from personal experience that low blood sugar can feel very much like anxiety. Seems like it would help a lot to know if that's why you feel the way you feel.

bruce19

I think asking questions about this type of issue on BF is fine. But, as you state, a discussion with an MD is in order.