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Cannot Figure this Fatigue Out

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Cannot Figure this Fatigue Out

Old 07-02-18, 12:47 PM
  #26  
DannoXYZ 
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Do you have weekly workout-log? As mentioned, you may be overdoing it, overall and during ride.

- what kind of gears and cadence are you using?

- cut back on high-mileage rides, just once a week, max twice

- one day of sprints, 10-mile warmup, 5-10x high-RPM 100% screaming bloody-murder sprints until you faint, rest 3-7min do another, 20-miles max

- one day of intervals, 10-mile warmup, go at 90-95% of sprint-pace, as fast as you can hold for 1-2 minutes and be completely spent at end. If you can't hold speed for that time, go slower next time. If you still have something left, go faster next time. Do 5x with 3-7min rest in between, then go home. 20-25-miles max

- one day of hillclimb intervals. Find 3-5 mile steady climb and go at steady-pace that'll have you maxed-out in 20-minutes with nothing left to give. Rest on way down, rest some more and do another. 3x total then go home, 20-25 miles max.

- on your ONE day of high-mileage, slow down and work on form. Work on relaxing upper-body, bent elbows, flat-back. No death-grip on bars, should be able to wiggle ALL your fingers. Work on picking easy gears, spinning them smoothly. As mentioned, verify your fit and body-positioning, looking in store windows helps (don't rear-end parked cars). Longest rides should be done at slowest pace. You should never feel tired or fatigued after long ride because it's not about building strength. Muscles shouldn't ever be taxed. These rides are for working neural-muscular coordination and developing your energy-delivery systems.

- TWO days of complete rest per week, doing nothing. Maybe a 5-mile ride at extremely slow 8-10mph pace.


H.I.I.T training will do more for your fitness-improvement and quicker than all those long slow miles.

Last edited by DannoXYZ; 07-02-18 at 12:54 PM.
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Old 07-02-18, 08:30 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Dudelsack View Post
What sorcery might this be? A good discussion on BF...

Have any of you found HRV helpful at all? Itís an easy download on a smart phone. I use it as a meditation guide, but itís supposed to be helpful monitoring physical stress as well.
I've been taking my HRV since mid-March. The theory is that you'll have your best workouts when HRV is peaking, but so far I can't tell for sure when that'll be. Of course that may be just me. Chart your HRV next to your daily training stress balance (TSB) and see if it makes any sense. This might want its own thread.
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Old 07-02-18, 08:46 PM
  #28  
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I've been taking my HRV since mid-March. The theory is that you'll have your best workouts when HRV is peaking, but so far I can't tell for sure when that'll be.
I don't think it's so much about hitting a peak. Over time you should get an idea of what your range of HRV values is. Mornings when your HRV is at the upper end of your range should be productive for harder training, mornings when your HRV is at the lower end of your range you should consider backing off or even resting.

To be honest I find that for regular day-to-day variations, HRV doesn't always tell you much more than resting HR does. Usually if my HRV is depressed, resting HR will be elevated. That's particularly true as an indicator for training-related fatigue. What I've found is that HRV seems to be a little more sensitive to other stresses such as sleep quality, alcohol consumption, tough week at work, impending sickness, etc. (And in the case of sickness it can often be a good indicator of when you're ready to start training again).
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Old 07-02-18, 10:57 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by hexron View Post
For a couple years I've been haphazardly riding and trying to get to my goal: 50mi ride averaging 16mph. I've just recently started looking at more structured training, but figure I will wait until winter since there's so much nice summer right now.

Problem is - I just get so tired after rides and so grumpy that I think my wife is going to take my bike away. For the past few weeks I've been averaging between 4-6hr on the bike with one day devoted to a 40mi ride where I try to keep a pretty high average - which for me is 15-17mph. I'm pretty sure I'm consuming enough carbs/water etc. I usually try to eat the night before good and during the ride will take a few gels - which I realize is probably overkill for 40mi - I just want to be sure my later fatigue isn't carb related. When I've come off the last couple 40mi rides - I'm really depleted. About 20 to 30min after these rides I hit a crazy wall or something and just have to lay down for a little bit.

Yesterday I did the 40mi and was pretty sore. Today I worked out with dumbells in the morning for 45min, light weight. Then after a short nap in the afternoon rode casually to the store and back - about 10mi. Granted it was really hot out - but I drank a whole 24oz bottle of Nuun - average was 13mph. Well for the rest of the day I was a just a tired, cranky ahole. Had to go straight to Starbucks for some iced coffee just to get me through the rest of the day. I just feel I should not be this tired for the expenditure of energy and how focused on nutrition I am.

Other symptoms that probably contribute:
Age late 40s.
Kids wake us up at least once a night.
Lots of family stress.
2cups of coffee in morning - 1cup afternoon.

Might have to give up the bike for a while until I get this figured out which makes me pretty sad.
Low blood sugar. Your post is a list of the symptoms. Why? Lack of fat burning ability on the bike. That's normal for new riders. What to do? At first, try to eat ~200 calories/hour while you're on the bike, starting in the first 15 minutes. An easy thing is to buy some Clif bars. Take 2 with you, opening the packages ahead of time. When you take out the first one, break it into 4 pieces, put 3 back in your jersey pocket just loose. Eat 1 piece every 15 minutes. I'd hold one between two fingers and just nibble until it was gone. Even doing that will build fat burning ability because you'll burn more than 200/hour. Feel good but legs hurt on the bike = more protein. Lack energy on the bike = more carbs.

BTW, a "few" gels will do it, but you need one every 20 minutes, by the clock. And recovery carbs after the ride, a bagel and then a meal.

That said, there may be some metabolic issues beyond needing a pack of carbs to be able to get out of your own way.
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Old 07-02-18, 11:02 PM
  #30  
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I usually agree with Danno, but this time I'm going to come down on the side of mileage. When I was restarting my cycling at 50, an LD racer told me that distance = strength. I took that to heart and it worked. Training to ride century distances+ works like a charm. The 4-6 hour hard ride is a killer workout.
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Old 07-03-18, 12:29 PM
  #31  
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Yes, in but you cannot do distance with high intensity. Sure, base is good in beginning, but he's doing way too much mileage at too high intensity. Needs to slow down these long rides (and eat), along with cutting back mileage on other days and doing shorter more intense rides.

Also other side of teardowns from workouts is build-up & repair which needs rest. He's not resting enough between workouts to recover. Simplest example is gym workouts, you do upper-body one day, then lower-body another day, etc. so that you give each system time to recover. He's doing whole-body workouts with long-distance AND intensity without enough recovery time. That's the idea behind periodization is to separate into different types of workouts each day of week. If you do two of same ride in a week, you've missed out on a specific system to develop and overtaxing another. Just one long 4-6 hr ride per week is needed.

Last edited by DannoXYZ; 07-03-18 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 07-03-18, 06:14 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Yes, in but you cannot do distance with high intensity. Sure, base is good in beginning, but he's doing way too much mileage at too high intensity. Needs to slow down these long rides (and eat), along with cutting back mileage on other days and doing shorter more intense rides.

Also other side of teardowns from workouts is build-up & repair which needs rest. He's not resting enough between workouts to recover. Simplest example is gym workouts, you do upper-body one day, then lower-body another day, etc. so that you give each system time to recover. He's doing whole-body workouts with long-distance AND intensity without enough recovery time. That's the idea behind periodization is to separate into different types of workouts each day of week. If you do two of same ride in a week, you've missed out on a specific system to develop and overtaxing another. Just one long 4-6 hr ride per week is needed.
You are of course absolutely right. It just seemed to me that your recipe might better fit a person into LD racing. That was just about the precise training plan of Homeyba, who used to do the 508 and team RAAM events on a tandem. Except his weekend ride was a bit longer and quite a bit more vigorous . . . Very good advice, though.
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Old 10-06-18, 04:21 PM
  #33  
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Well stress will definitely have a deleterious effect on your energy level. However, without much more detailed information I'd guess its a nutritional deficiency. Even if you don't think your diet have changed radically in recent, your body does often change the way it processes nutrients particularly as we age.

In any event, you can't diagnose this on your own. You really do need to talk about it with your doctor, and at minimal get a complete blood work screening.

Last edited by KraneXL; 10-06-18 at 11:44 PM. Reason: clarify
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Old 10-06-18, 06:20 PM
  #34  
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Have a full blood panel done at the doctor and have them specifically check your TSH.
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Old 10-08-18, 08:02 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by colombo357 View Post
Why wait 'til winter? What are you going to do in the next 6 months?

I'd say get a smart trainer and begin Traditional Base Low Volume asap. After you're done with that, do Sweet Spot Base Low Volume. That'll leave the Build and Specialty phases for the winter.

Ride outdoors once a week.
where can I find these plans? also wondering if you could provide a link to "structured training"?
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Old 10-15-18, 04:40 PM
  #36  
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Proper Nutrition, sleep, rest, and training

In that order, you need to get proper nutrition. It may take a while but a good starting point is 30% protein, 30% fat, and 40% carbohydrates. No sugar, no white carbs except cauliflower, mono saturated fats, and lean proteins. This takes at least three weeks to get adjusted to it.

Sleep at least eight to nine hours a night. The new diet will help.

Get plenty of rest during the day.

Find a coach to give you a training program and have her/him monitor you until you get the feel for it.

This list is in order of importance.
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Old 10-16-18, 06:30 AM
  #37  
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I went through something similar. I tested my blood sugar, it was OK. Went to the doctors, everything was OK to very good, no red flags and no answers.

The answer I came up with that I act like a cranky old a-hole after a long ride is because I AM a cranky old a-hole. Riding so far on long rides just made me worse (or better) at it. My ultimate answer was to get an ebike. I live in the Ozarks and the hills just really were killing me. I use the assist mainly on the hills and no longer spin like crazy ascending or have to stop and walk up. It's been a godsend. And when I return home I am usually in a much better mood. Not spinning like crazy up hills and then having to stop and rest makes it much more enjoyable. Even on my 60+ mile rides I have about 25-30% of the battery left when returning home. I just keep it off when not needed. So I am still getting a workout. I've lost about 10 pounds in the last month and a half and rode MORE since getting the ebike than I had the entire year prior.

It worked for me.
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Old 10-16-18, 08:53 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Lenkearney View Post
where can I find these plans? also wondering if you could provide a link to "structured training"?
All plans are the same with the fluff removed; progress to a practical limit, usually time, then increase intensity/retest.

Something like 3 x 10 at 91% FTP ==> 3 x 12 ==> 2 x 20 ==> 3 x 10 at 100% FTP ==> 3 x 12 ==> 2 x 20 ==> Increase power / Retest ==> Repeat all previous with new FTP ==> Add/replace one day with 4 x 4 at 120% or whatever you can manage for a 4 x 4 which is also a good indicator of your VO2 max, etc. like that.

All the while doing one long ride per week.

It's also easy to decode any plan to remove the fluff.

Whatever you do, don't buy any annual subscriptions.
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Old 12-17-18, 10:41 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by nomadmax View Post
Have a full blood panel done at the doctor and have them specifically check your TSH.
I have mine tested recently and it was OK. My testosterone however was a lot lower than I would have liked. Once men reach 40, this is typically the cause (or at least associated with it) of an energy drop.

One more thing, vitamin D deficiency, which is also common, will also cause an increase in fatigue as well as mental fog. I just recently discovered this and getting over that one.

Last edited by KraneXL; 02-20-19 at 10:45 PM. Reason: decrease to increase
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Old 02-20-19, 09:42 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by fstrnu View Post
Something like 3 x 10 at 91% FTP ==> 3 x 12 ==> 2 x 20 ==> 3 x 10 at 100% FTP ==> 3 x 12 ==> 2 x 20 ==> Increase power / Retest ==> Repeat all previous with new FTP ==> Add/replace one day with 4 x 4 at 120% or whatever you can manage for a 4 x 4 which is also a good indicator of your VO2 max, etc. like that.
.
I feel stopid- what does "3 x12" mean?
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Old 02-21-19, 06:48 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Lenkearney View Post
I feel stopid- what does "3 x12" mean?
Don't different people use different notations. In this case, 3 x 12 = Three intervals of twelve minutes each
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Old 02-21-19, 10:46 AM
  #42  
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Sounds like way too much stress? Despite the challenges of a wife and family you need to find a way to take a time-out and get some "me time". For a while, my mom worked two jobs and warned us, "wake me up at our peril."

In any event, you can't help your family unless you first help yourself. If you want to be around, figure it out, and do it soon. That, or at least have your insurance paid up.
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