Training & Nutrition Learn how to develop a training schedule that's good for you. What should you eat and drink on your ride? Learn everything you need to know about training and nutrition here.

Are 10 hours too much?

Reply

Old 06-24-18, 01:45 PM
  #1  
VenaCava
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Are 10 hours too much?

Hi,
Iíve been building my endurance on my stationary bike, just would like to know if 10 hours once a week at about 110 rpm is a dumb decision?
Should I do less and focus on performance rather than these long rides? I mean itís been such a nice escape though...
Thanks ahead for any advice
VenaCava is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-18, 03:18 PM
  #2  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,460

Bikes: Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel, Centurion Ironman Expert

Mentioned: 113 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2185 Post(s)
I can't sustain 110 rpm for more than a few minutes at a time, no matter how low the gear. Outdoors I tend to average 90 rpm but on the indoor trainer it's closer to 70 rpm, mostly because the resistance feels unnatural. It's not quite like riding uphill. More like riding on sticky tarmac.

If you can average 110 rpm for 10 hours a week, you'll do fine on an endurance ride. Although you'll also need time on the road to maintain handling skills. And road time also tends to force us to use our arms and legs more rather than sitting heavily in the saddle.

I mix up my trainer sessions between endurance and performance. Some days I do shorter interval sessions with more sprints and simulated climbs. Other days I focus on staying in zone 2 or 3 and riding for one or two hours. I'll find out whether that's been enough when I'm able to resume road cycling in a week or two. I've been out since May with a shoulder injury.
canklecat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-18, 08:23 PM
  #3  
Bmach
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 533
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Please go away troll.
Bmach is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-18, 08:30 PM
  #4  
OldTryGuy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: SW Fl.
Posts: 4,071

Bikes: 1981 Custom Touring Paramount, 1983 Road Paramount, 2013 Giant Propel Advanced SL3, 2018 Specialized Red Roubaix Expert mech., 2002 Magna 7sp hybrid, 1976 Bassett Racing 45sp Cruiser

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 553 Post(s)
Originally Posted by VenaCava View Post
....Hi,.....Iíve been building my endurance on my stationary bike, just would like to know if 10 hours once a week at about 110 rpm is a dumb decision?...............
awesome

Originally Posted by Bmach View Post
Please go away troll.
really
OldTryGuy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-18, 11:29 PM
  #5  
VenaCava
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Yeah I see what you mean...

As for now, I donít know how beneficial it is for road cycling... which is what Iím ďtrainingĒ for ultimately.
im saving up for a bike and then Iíll get to try it out.
but doing more interval sessions does sound like the better approach... I think I just got addicted to the long ones.
Thanks for answering and good luck with your shoulder.



Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
I can't sustain 110 rpm for more than a few minutes at a time, no matter how low the gear. Outdoors I tend to average 90 rpm but on the indoor trainer it's closer to 70 rpm, mostly because the resistance feels unnatural. It's not quite like riding uphill. More like riding on sticky tarmac.

If you can average 110 rpm for 10 hours a week, you'll do fine on an endurance ride. Although you'll also need time on the road to maintain handling skills. And road time also tends to force us to use our arms and legs more rather than sitting heavily in the saddle.

I mix up my trainer sessions between endurance and performance. Some days I do shorter interval sessions with more sprints and simulated climbs. Other days I focus on staying in zone 2 or 3 and riding for one or two hours. I'll find out whether that's been enough when I'm able to resume road cycling in a week or two. I've been out since May with a shoulder injury.
VenaCava is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-18, 07:15 AM
  #6  
DannoXYZ 
Senior Member
 
DannoXYZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Saratoga, CA
Posts: 11,739
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Research "periodization", " H.I.I.T.". Pick up various training books from Lemond, Friel, Carmichael. Look up "waterrockets training bible" here.

Biggest training mistake beginners make is too much time/miles at low intensity. If you can keep it up for an hour, you are going too slow. How much faster should you go? Cut out 5-days of fluff you've been doing and add these:

1 day of SPRINTS: max-effort 100% screaming bloody-murder sprints until you drop. If you can do 30-seconds, awesome, but you're probably not going hard enough. Push harder and collapse at 20-sec. Rest fully 3-7min and do i again! Do maybe 5 to start and go home. Add one more sprint each week until you can do 10 of them per session

1 day of INTERVALS: which are slower than sprints, maybe 85-95% of sprint speeds. Accelerate briskly to pace you can sustain for only 2-min before you collapse. If you made it to 2-min with anything left, go faster next time. If you collapsed before 2-min, go slower next time. Rest fully 3-7 min and do it again. Do 5 to start and go home. Add one more every other week until you can do 8

1 day of HILLCLIMB INTERVALS: find steady 3-4 mile climb and go at faster than sustainable pace until you collapse at 20-min. Do back down and rest fully. Then do another.. And another! Then go home. Add one more climb each 3-weeks until you csn do 5 per session

2 days rest in between those workout days and you can still do 2-days of fluff if you want. Actually better to double it up and do just one day.

The guys who race 1-2-P and go to school or work don't have much time to train. Once season starts, they put in 12-15 hrs training max. But they make it count with sprints, intervals and hillclimbs.

Another way to look at it is no matter how many hours/miles you do at steady 15mph, it will not increase your speed to 16mph. To improve to 16mph, you must RIDE at 16mph. At first it may only last 1-2 min, but with more repeats, that 16mph spurt will last longer and longer until you csn sustain it. Then do it again for 17mph, then 18mph, etc. Even faster progress if you jump straight to 20mph, then 25mph, etc.

Btw - research has shown that fastest way to build endurance is with strength-training and H.I.I.T.

Last edited by DannoXYZ; 06-25-18 at 07:27 AM.
DannoXYZ is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-18, 10:03 AM
  #7  
VenaCava
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Thanks for for the info... will do my research


Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Research "periodization", " H.I.I.T.". Pick up various training books from Lemond, Friel, Carmichael. Look up "waterrockets training bible" here.

Biggest training mistake beginners make is too much time/miles at low intensity. If you can keep it up for an hour, you are going too slow. How much faster should you go? Cut out 5-days of fluff you've been doing and add these:

1 day of SPRINTS: max-effort 100% screaming bloody-murder sprints until you drop. If you can do 30-seconds, awesome, but you're probably not going hard enough. Push harder and collapse at 20-sec. Rest fully 3-7min and do i again! Do maybe 5 to start and go home. Add one more sprint each week until you can do 10 of them per session

1 day of INTERVALS: which are slower than sprints, maybe 85-95% of sprint speeds. Accelerate briskly to pace you can sustain for only 2-min before you collapse. If you made it to 2-min with anything left, go faster next time. If you collapsed before 2-min, go slower next time. Rest fully 3-7 min and do it again. Do 5 to start and go home. Add one more every other week until you can do 8

1 day of HILLCLIMB INTERVALS: find steady 3-4 mile climb and go at faster than sustainable pace until you collapse at 20-min. Do back down and rest fully. Then do another.. And another! Then go home. Add one more climb each 3-weeks until you csn do 5 per session

2 days rest in between those workout days and you can still do 2-days of fluff if you want. Actually better to double it up and do just one day.

The guys who race 1-2-P and go to school or work don't have much time to train. Once season starts, they put in 12-15 hrs training max. But they make it count with sprints, intervals and hillclimbs.

Another way to look at it is no matter how many hours/miles you do at steady 15mph, it will not increase your speed to 16mph. To improve to 16mph, you must RIDE at 16mph. At first it may only last 1-2 min, but with more repeats, that 16mph spurt will last longer and longer until you csn sustain it. Then do it again for 17mph, then 18mph, etc. Even faster progress if you jump straight to 20mph, then 25mph, etc.

Btw - research has shown that fastest way to build endurance is with strength-training and H.I.I.T.
VenaCava is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-18, 10:06 AM
  #8  
bbbean 
Senior Member
 
bbbean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,896

Bikes: Giant Propel, Cannondale SuperX, Univega Alpina Ultima

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 231 Post(s)
Originally Posted by VenaCava View Post
Hi,
Iíve been building my endurance on my stationary bike, just would like to know if 10 hours once a week at about 110 rpm is a dumb decision?
Should I do less and focus on performance rather than these long rides? I mean itís been such a nice escape though...
Thanks ahead for any advice
Well sure, 10 hours at 110 RPM is an OK warm up, but what are you doing for actual training?
__________________

Formerly fastest rider in the grupetto, currently slowest guy in the peloton

bbbean is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-18, 11:22 AM
  #9  
bruce19
Senior Member
 
bruce19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 5,855

Bikes: MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 694 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Bmach View Post
Please go away troll.
I was wondering if my training regime of one century a week at 25 mph is too slow.
bruce19 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-18, 01:08 PM
  #10  
DannoXYZ 
Senior Member
 
DannoXYZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Saratoga, CA
Posts: 11,739
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Originally Posted by VenaCava View Post
Thanks for for the info... will do my research



Here's link to Waterrocket's Workout Bible. Note that only one day a week for 1-hr is done at pace you were originally considering. Rest of week is done at higher and much, much higher intensities. If you want to improve at optimum fastest rate, you're going to be fainting and puking your guts out, maybe even pooping your pants. So be sure to get decent helmet, gloves and box of Depends for these workouts.

Also don't spend too much money on bike, you're going to replace it in 2-3yrs anyway as you get faster. Look for a "training" bike first, something 3-5yrs old from Craiglist or garage-sales in the $300-500 range is all you really need. Spending more won't make you faster or improve your fitness any faster.
DannoXYZ is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-18, 01:19 PM
  #11  
VenaCava
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Cool thanks 👍
VenaCava is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-18, 12:25 PM
  #12  
fstrnu
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 115
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
I advocate keeping it simple at first.

Doing multiple types of workouts out of the gate will simply cloud your ability to understand how much load you can tolerate.

Instead stay indoors and use this, start with cruising pace and work your way up from there once you're comfortable with your ability to keep up with the load.

Edit - Also, keeping recovery time consistent between workouts can help you tell whether you are accumulating fatigue.
fstrnu is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-18, 03:00 PM
  #13  
colombo357
Senior Member
 
colombo357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Murica
Posts: 2,215
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 91 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Bmach View Post
Please go away troll.
I might give him the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up to a typo.

So if he's asking if riding 10 hours a week @ 110 rpm is okay, split up over several rides, then yea it's fine. It's basically base miles.

But the benefits will fade away very quickly.
colombo357 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-18, 12:04 PM
  #14  
rubiksoval
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 2,314

Bikes: Felt AR

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1342 Post(s)
Originally Posted by fstrnu View Post
I advocate keeping it simple at first.

Doing multiple types of workouts out of the gate will simply cloud your ability to understand how much load you can tolerate.

.
I disagree. The amount of training load you can tolerate increases significantly the more you train.

There's zero reason to not incorporate intensity or workouts or group rides or races (though you'll likely be dropped) as soon as you're comfortable with being on the bike. Plus it's generally quite a bit more fun to go fast at times.
rubiksoval is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-18, 09:25 PM
  #15  
VenaCava
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Fade away quickly?

I meant 10 hours a week but all in one day...
I work really long hours and only have about one day off and I enjoy a long ride.
Not a troll, was just asking an honest question since I have little to no knowledge about cycling...
what dis you mean when you said benefits will fade quickly? Like my body will get used to it or rather it will do me damage in the long run?
thanks


Originally Posted by colombo357 View Post
I might give him the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up to a typo.

So if he's asking if riding 10 hours a week @ 110 rpm is okay, split up over several rides, then yea it's fine. It's basically base miles.

But the benefits will fade away very quickly.
VenaCava is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-18, 05:35 AM
  #16  
bbbean 
Senior Member
 
bbbean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,896

Bikes: Giant Propel, Cannondale SuperX, Univega Alpina Ultima

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 231 Post(s)
Originally Posted by VenaCava View Post
I meant 10 hours a week but all in one day...
I work really long hours and only have about one day off and I enjoy a long ride.
Not a troll, was just asking an honest question since I have little to no knowledge about cycling...
what dis you mean when you said benefits will fade quickly? Like my body will get used to it or rather it will do me damage in the long run?
thanks
are you referring to cadence or hr?
__________________

Formerly fastest rider in the grupetto, currently slowest guy in the peloton

bbbean is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-18, 06:05 AM
  #17  
brianmcg123
Senior Member
 
brianmcg123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: TN
Posts: 1,192
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 314 Post(s)
Why stop at 10?
brianmcg123 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-18, 09:20 PM
  #18  
DannoXYZ 
Senior Member
 
DannoXYZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Saratoga, CA
Posts: 11,739
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Originally Posted by VenaCava View Post
I meant 10 hours a week but all in one day...
I work really long hours and only have about one day off and I enjoy a long ride.
Not a troll, was just asking an honest question since I have little to no knowledge about cycling...
what dis you mean when you said benefits will fade quickly? Like my body will get used to it or rather it will do me damage in the long run?
thanks


You'll have gains for one, two months. After that no more improvement. You need to add the high-intensity for improvements. Need to stress the muscles and tear them apart so they repair & build back stronger. Need to stress the heart & lungs similarly. Long rides like that does nothing but train your body to deliver energy for long rides, but your muscles, heart & lungs won't be taxed and you won't get stronger or faster.

If you only have 1 day a week, then do workouts listed in Waterrocket's list 1 day a week. One day do sprints (1hr). The next weekend, do intervals (1.5hr). The next, do hillclimbs (2.0hr). Short high-intensity workouts will have you improving way, way quicker. You only need that long slow stuff for 1-2 months max.

It's just like going to the gym and lifting. You can do 10-lb lifts for 10-hrs at a time. This will never, ever allow you to lift 100-lbs. You can do 10-lbs lifts for 10-hrs for 10-years straight, and you still will not be able to lift 100-lbs. Don't confuse quantity with quality.

Last edited by DannoXYZ; 07-02-18 at 09:31 PM.
DannoXYZ is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-18, 09:25 PM
  #19  
DannoXYZ 
Senior Member
 
DannoXYZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Saratoga, CA
Posts: 11,739
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
I disagree. The amount of training load you can tolerate increases significantly the more you train.

There's zero reason to not incorporate intensity or workouts or group rides or races (though you'll likely be dropped) as soon as you're comfortable with being on the bike. Plus it's generally quite a bit more fun to go fast at times.
Yeah, when I started with collegiate racing, I went to both practice crits they had in the area every week. I got dropped from both pretty quickly, didn't even last a single lap.

Kept on coming out, week after week and got dropped again and again. But now it's 1-lap in, then 2-laps in, then 5-laps. Would rest and wait for them to come around again and chase and catch back on.... and get dropped... After about 6-weeks of this, I was able to hang in the slower one the whole time!

After another month or two, I was actually sprinting for primes in the slower one! Another month and I was winning primes!!! Then I was able to hang in the faster one as well.

When summer came, I signed up for real racing! Won my 1st two cat-4 races outright in a single weekend. Next weekend, got 2nd on Sat. Tried to help teammate/roommate on Sunday, but he got caught in pack at finish, so I went and got another 2nd. My whole cat-4 career lasted 8-days and I was a 3.

Yeah, relative effort is the same, but intensity has to increase. In beginning, a 30-sec sprint was 20-23mph and I'm off. Later on, my sprint was still 30-seconds, but now I'm going 40mph!

Last edited by DannoXYZ; 07-02-18 at 09:32 PM.
DannoXYZ is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-18, 10:25 PM
  #20  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 19,691
Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6889 Post(s)
10 hours per week, or 10 hours continuously in a single setting?

You must have something very entertaining to do while sitting on that trainer.

Most trainers have some kind of variable power control. Start cranking it till you feel the burn.

Does your trainer show watts?

50W, 110 RPM?
100W, 110 RPM?
200W, 110 RPM?
700W, 110 RPM?

CliffordK is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-18, 11:15 PM
  #21  
VenaCava
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Thanks 👍

Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
You'll have gains for
one, two months. After that no more improvement. You need to add the high-intensity for improvements. Need to stress the muscles and tear them apart so they repair & build back stronger. Need to stress the heart & lungs similarly. Long rides like that does nothing but train your body to deliver energy for long rides, but your muscles, heart & lungs won't be taxed and you won't get stronger or faster.

If you only have 1 day a week, then do workouts listed in Waterrocket's list 1 day a week. One day do sprints (1hr). The next weekend, do intervals (1.5hr). The next, do hillclimbs (2.0hr). Short high-intensity workouts will have you improving way, way quicker. You only need that long slow stuff for 1-2 months max.

It's just like going to the gym and lifting. You can do 10-lb lifts for 10-hrs at a time. This will never, ever allow you to lift 100-lbs. You can do 10-lbs lifts for 10-hrs for 10-years straight, and you still will not be able to lift 100-lbs. Don't confuse quantity with quality.
VenaCava is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-18, 04:48 PM
  #22  
colombo357
Senior Member
 
colombo357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Murica
Posts: 2,215
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 91 Post(s)
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
If you only have 1 day a week, then do workouts listed in Waterrocket's list 1 day a week. One day do sprints (1hr). The next weekend, do intervals (1.5hr). The next, do hillclimbs (2.0hr). Short high-intensity workouts will have you improving way, way quicker. You only need that long slow stuff for 1-2 months max.
Not gonna matter what he does if he only trains one day a week.

I'm also willing to bet he falls short of his 10 hour indoor ride on the first attempt by a wide margin, like halfway in.
colombo357 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-18, 01:09 PM
  #23  
fstrnu
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 115
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
I disagree. The amount of training load you can tolerate increases significantly the more you train.

There's zero reason to not incorporate intensity or workouts or group rides or races (though you'll likely be dropped) as soon as you're comfortable with being on the bike. Plus it's generally quite a bit more fun to go fast at times.
I have no idea what you are disagreeing with as nothing you've said conflicts with what I said.
fstrnu is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-18, 01:30 PM
  #24  
rubiksoval
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 2,314

Bikes: Felt AR

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1342 Post(s)
Originally Posted by fstrnu View Post
I have no idea what you are disagreeing with as nothing you've said conflicts with what I said.
This

Originally Posted by fstrnu View Post
I advocate keeping it simple at first.

Doing multiple types of workouts out of the gate will simply cloud your ability to understand how much load you can tolerate.

.
Doesn't make sense. I disagree with it.
rubiksoval is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-18, 02:26 PM
  #25  
fstrnu
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 115
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
But I didn't say anything about load not increasing or avoiding intensity so I still don't understand why you are disagreeing or what doesn't make sense. I don't expect everyone to agree with it but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense.
fstrnu is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service