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Training schedule and workouts for trying to go from 23mph average to 25mph by spring

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Training schedule and workouts for trying to go from 23mph average to 25mph by spring

Old 08-11-18, 02:21 PM
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kevinabbot
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Training schedule and workouts for trying to go from 23mph average to 25mph by spring

Hey so I am new to Road Cycling (previously a mountain biker). I got my first road bike (Domane ALR 4 Disc). I did a 10 mile time trial solo and it took 27 minutes (~23mph). It was calm wind and mainly flat with some long but not steep hills (1-2 degrees). I think thatís a good starting time but I want to race come spring and not finish last. To be a bit more comfortable I want to be able to average 25mph on flats.

My training plan is 7 days a week
Sunday: 100 mile casual for fun ride
Monday: No bike swim and gym
Tuesday - Saturday 20 miles each. (Thursday gym).

The problem is I donít know what workouts to do on those days..

Also itís worth noting I am 17 5í3Ē and 115lbs
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Old 08-11-18, 02:24 PM
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Get a good e. Bike and the speed will come
Originally Posted by kevinabbot View Post
Hey so I am new to Road Cycling (previously a mountain biker). I got my first road bike (Domane ALR 4 Disc). I did a 10 mile time trial solo and it took 27 minutes (~23mph). It was calm wind and mainly flat with some long but not steep hills (1-2 degrees). I think thatís a good starting time but I want to race come spring and not finish last. To be a bit more comfortable I want to be able to average 25mph on flats.

My training plan is 7 days a week
Sunday: 100 mile casual for fun ride
Monday: No bike swim and gym
Tuesday - Saturday 20 miles each. (Thursday gym).

The problem is I donít know what workouts to do on those days..

Also itís worth noting I am 17 5í3Ē and 115lbs
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Old 08-11-18, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by kevinabbot View Post
The problem is I donít know what workouts to do on those days..
Same question; same answer: read Joe Frielís ďCyclistís Training Bible.Ē
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Old 08-11-18, 02:56 PM
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What do you mean when you say "Tuesday - Saturday 20 miles each. (Thursday gym)"? Is that what you've been typically doing each week or that's what you have time for, or what?
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Old 08-11-18, 03:04 PM
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Average speed means jack diddly for total time .
my advice would be go on strava and look at the fastest times on the course . my tt course has some pretty fast times . but look for the guys from the day you did runs . look at the analyze data page and take screen shots . then go into photoshop and over lay their data ontop of yours . change the opacity and hue so you can see where they speed up and slow down compared to yours . also practice the course a lot !!!! Learn the course learn where you are going slow and fast . you can always manipulate you average speed but not your final time . you just need to know the course . of obviously keep your bike fresh , check bearings chain , lube , aero kit , all the little things.
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Old 08-11-18, 03:09 PM
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Your mileage is way too lopsided. 100 miles on Sunday is way too much with 20 miles the other days.

If you want to go fast, you have to go fast. Workouts of 30-60 minutes at a tempo pace, 15-30 mins at threshold, and 3-6 at vo2 max all have their place.

Going out and riding with a fast group can be a huge boon when you're a newer rider.
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Old 08-11-18, 05:09 PM
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Kevin: You'd benefit from getting some basic information from good sources.
Basic training concepts include intensity and duration -- how hard to ride, for how long. Joe Friel is one of the standard names in training. Read his article: Joe Frielís Quick Guide to Setting Zones and get a heart rate monitor. A power meter is also great if you can afford it. Use that article to understand your training zones. Then you can look up any of the many workout plans and understand what they're talking about -- so much time in zone 4, so much time in zone 2, etc. Look at the The BikeForums.net workout recipe book to get a picture of various workouts. If you don't have a power meter, you'll translate FTP into heart rate or perceived exertion level.
There's lots of other useful advice on getting faster, like reducing wind resistance (clothing, position, etc.), and so on. But get familiar with training concepts and begin to use them. And you can hang out in the BF racing forum to pick up tips. Good riders on group rides could also be ready to help an interested new rider. Just pick up a little at a time. You don't have to master the subject today.
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Old 08-11-18, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post
What do you mean when you say "Tuesday - Saturday 20 miles each. (Thursday gym)"? Is that what you've been typically doing each week or that's what you have time for, or what?
Yeah I ride 20 miles per day in the morning. Im trying to average 25 or 24 on flats.
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Old 08-11-18, 07:38 PM
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Your mission, if you decide to accept it is to A) find a local club with other jr racer and club races. B) go out and ride with these other juniors, befriend them if possible, and get out to some club races an try to kick some butt. B) you mentioned that you have a Trek. Treks have really tall head tubes, your mission, if you decide to accept it is to try to lower your handlebars to under 6.5" (from the handle bar center to the top of your front tire). You may even need to use a downward sloping stem like Quintana uses. Doing this will help you better use your glutes/ get more power to the pedals/ go faster. If you are unable to finish this mission, bike forums will disavow any knowledge of you existence.
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Old 08-11-18, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian25 View Post
Your mission, if you decide to accept it is to A) find a local club with other jr racer and club races. B) go out and ride with these other juniors, befriend them if possible, and get out to some club races an try to kick some butt. B) you mentioned that you have a Trek. Treks have really tall head tubes, your mission, if you decide to accept it is to try to lower your handlebars to under 6.5" (from the handle bar center to the top of your front tire). You may even need to use a downward sloping stem like Quintana uses. Doing this will help you better use your glutes/ get more power to the pedals/ go faster. If you are unable to finish this mission, bike forums will disavow any knowledge of you existence.
10/10 on creativity. However, I would kill for other Junior riders but like I never... ever see any. In NOVA we have a 44 mile paved bike trail. On Sundays I go the entire way there and back (90 miles). Never once ONCE have I seen someone under 20 actually riding and not commuting to a friends house.... S A D
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Old 08-12-18, 07:55 AM
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I am sure you have checked it out but it looks like you may have to become a Roadent. Seems to be the only racing club out there. On improving; I raced when I was your age. I was really crummy. My first year I was off the back for all of the open races I started. My coach said that I needed fundamentally stronger legs to be able to turn over bigger gears. Starting in September I started in on the leg press. (Monday, Wednesday, Friday.) Increasing the weigh about 5% per week. By the next spring, It worked. I was able to now stay with the juniors, even placing in some races. Sounds like you have the racin' bug - deep urge to race. If it all does not pan out for you, you could consider changing. I raced for seven years and decided there was really no future in it for me so, I still really liked riding so, I ended up switching to full loaded touring.
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Old 08-12-18, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian25 View Post
My coach said that I needed fundamentally stronger legs to be able to turn over bigger gears. Starting in September I started in on the leg press. (Monday, Wednesday, Friday.) Increasing the weigh about 5% per week. By the next spring, It worked.
No it didn't, and unfortunately whatever skills your coach might have had, in this area he or she didn't know what they were talking about. The forces needed to ride a geared bike are so low, that strength is never a limiting factor. "It's an aerobic sport, dammit," A. Coggan.
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Old 08-12-18, 08:50 AM
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Yea well next you are going to say that I made the whole thing up. You might want to argue with Fabien Cancelera, who is able to turn over a 53 x 11 on flat ground. If cycling does not require strength. Try a standing start in a 52 x 12, like world hour record holders do, or even try starting out in a 52 x 14 , like Eddy Merckx did back in '72. Please do not report back until you go out and try it out. I do not want to hear this from someone who has never done standing starts, and held a gigantic gear for long durations. It is not easy, but easier if you have strong legs!!
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Old 08-12-18, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by kevinabbot View Post


10/10 on creativity. However, I would kill for other Junior riders but like I never... ever see any. In NOVA we have a 44 mile paved bike trail. On Sundays I go the entire way there and back (90 miles). Never once ONCE have I seen someone under 20 actually riding and not commuting to a friends house.... S A D
You're just looking in the wrong places. I assume you are referring to the W&OD trail, which is for commuters, joggers, and the like. It is not where serious cyclists ride. I know of quite a few young (HS school aged) cyclists in the NOVA/DC area. They ride with Haymarket Bikes further out from town or Rock Creek Velo, a club specifically devoted to junior development, in town. You just need to Google around and venture off the MUP.
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Old 08-12-18, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by blazin View Post
You're just looking in the wrong places. I assume you are referring to the W&OD trail, which is for commuters, joggers, and the like. It is not where serious cyclists ride. I know of quite a few young (HS school aged) cyclists in the NOVA/DC area. They ride with Haymarket Bikes further out from town or Rock Creek Velo, a club specifically devoted to junior development, in town. You just need to Google around and venture off the MUP.
Cant find a website and I an Pretty sure you have to be recruited for that stuff
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Old 08-12-18, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by kevinabbot View Post


Cant find a website and I an Pretty sure you have to be recruited for that stuff
Really? You searched for "rock creek Velo" and couldn't find anything? Puzzling. It's the top result. Here's the link. They are taking new riders now. Email them. You are older than what they normally accept but if you have MTB skills and are as strong as you say, you should have no problems:

https://rockcreekvelo.org/join/
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Old 08-12-18, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by blazin View Post
Really? You searched for "rock creek Velo" and couldn't find anything? Puzzling. It's the top result. Here's the link. They are taking new riders now. Email them. You are older than what they normally accept but if you have MTB skills and are as strong as you say, you should have no problems:

https://rockcreekvelo.org/join/
I donít really have any skills it was a for fun thing. In-fact never even owned a real mountain bike just used my hybrid ATX. Here is an example of me MTB
Usually itís not that smooth but eh. And idk if my TT would really be good enough and I donít have a car to get there

And it only goes to 18.. which I am 17.5 so donít think itís worth it

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Old 08-12-18, 11:42 AM
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O.K. besides how I became a better jr cyclist I have another "success story" hopefully some troll is not going to say that I am making this up. Name: Grant Handley. Average jr racer. finished a bunch of races his second year as a junior racing, but wanted to get better started weight lifting. He ended up weight lifting all winter (lots of leg presses). Did he get any faster? In the spring he started winning races at the velodrome and by April he rode a fast pursuit at the velodrome in L.A. I could not talk to Grant after that race. You see Grant had caught his opponent in the pursuit final (Mark Whitehead). He broke the jr national pursuit record by eight seconds doing a time that was ten seconds faster than Greg LeMonds time. The reason that I was unable to talk to Grant after that race was that he was swarmed by Velo News and other reporters. They ended up doing a front page article about him. And since Grant was about my best friend in High School I can tell you first hand that his improvement revolved all around a weight lifting program.
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Old 08-12-18, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian25 View Post
Yea well next you are going to say that I made the whole thing up. You might want to argue with Fabien Cancelera, who is able to turn over a 53 x 11 on flat ground. If cycling does not require strength. Try a standing start in a 52 x 12, like world hour record holders do, or even try starting out in a 52 x 14 , like Eddy Merckx did back in '72. Please do not report back until you go out and try it out. I do not want to hear this from someone who has never done standing starts, and held a gigantic gear for long durations. It is not easy, but easier if you have strong legs!!
Just no.

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Old 08-12-18, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian25 View Post
I can tell you first hand that his improvement revolved all around a weight lifting program.
Awesome. Start your own coaching business with this first-hand knowledge and you're bound to be an overnight success.
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Old 08-12-18, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian25 View Post
] Treks have really tall head tubes, your mission, if you decide to accept it is to try to lower your handlebars to under 6.5" (from the handle bar center to the top of your front tire). You may even need to use a downward sloping stem like Quintana uses. Doing this will help you better use your glutes/ get more power to the pedals/ go faster. If you are unable to finish this mission, bike forums will disavow any knowledge of you existence.



Wow.
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Old 08-12-18, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian25 View Post
Yea well next you are going to say that I made the whole thing up. You might want to argue with Fabien Cancelera, who is able to turn over a 53 x 11 on flat ground. If cycling does not require strength. Try a standing start in a 52 x 12, like world hour record holders do, or even try starting out in a 52 x 14 , like Eddy Merckx did back in '72. Please do not report back until you go out and try it out. I do not want to hear this from someone who has never done standing starts, and held a gigantic gear for long durations. It is not easy, but easier if you have strong legs!!
Why we don't use strength-endurance anymore ? aboc Cycle Coaching
"If cycling does not require strength. Try ..."
I don't have to try anything. I, and plenty of others, have calculated the maximum pedal force required for various powers and it's quite clear that anyone who can walk up three of four stairs (steps, not flights) has adequate strength to be a world class professional. I've also tried standing starts in gears from 53x12 to 39x17. 53x12 is slow, but not because of lack of strength, Given I can turn the pedals over once, strength is not the limiter, power is.
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Old 08-12-18, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
No it didn't, and unfortunately whatever skills your coach might have had, in this area he or she didn't know what they were talking about. The forces needed to ride a geared bike are so low, that strength is never a limiting factor. "It's an aerobic sport, dammit," A. Coggan.
This is true, but I don't think it's the whole picture. Look at the pedaling force as a % of the force your muscles are capable of generating. Anybody can lift/push 50 % 1RM more times than they can lift/push 80 % 1RM.

I don't think lifting is going to improve everyone's speed on a bike, and improving aerobic fitness will pay bigger gains for a lot of people. I'm just saying that strength is more important than we traditionally appreciate in road cycling.
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Old 08-12-18, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post


Wow.
An actual fitting might be in order. Numbers from internet people who've never seen you on a bike don't count.
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Old 08-12-18, 03:00 PM
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coaching

Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Awesome. Start your own coaching business with this first-hand knowledge and you're bound to be an overnight success.
Been there done that.
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