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Interval Repeats are the Cycling Software Industry's Worst Nightmare

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Interval Repeats are the Cycling Software Industry's Worst Nightmare

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Old 09-28-18, 08:00 AM
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fstrnu
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Interval Repeats are the Cycling Software Industry's Worst Nightmare

Edit - This post has been re-written as of 2018-12-07.

Cycling SW vendors have had a good run but it's about to end.

While previous generations of cyclists benefited from having to understand basic training concepts, today's "there's an app for that" culture is all too willing to let devices and SW think for them.

Cyclists are beginning to catch on, however, and this will have dire consequences for vendors.

The demise won't be immediate, though, as a standing army of disciples is still in place to defend the massive sunk costs they have invested in knowledge about how to workaround these flaw systems and models. This army is constantly at-the-ready with keyboards that never get cold. You will hear from them within seconds of me saving this post. A simple discussion forum search is all it takes to see both the tens of thousands of questions from confused users of this SW as well as the instant "Trainer Road" or "Zwift" responses to anyone having a question about training anywhere.

The training industrial complex is strong but is about to fall.

Zwift training plans are a joke with no discernible method to the madness of their finger-painted workout profiles which, at best, appear to simulating rides or race situations as opposed to being based on interval workouts. Riders unable to complete workouts are consoled with reassurances that it is OK because they are not expected to be able to complete all of the workouts. In all fairness this is all that can be said about failed complex workouts because, unlike interval workouts which target a single energy system, there is nothing you can tell from the failure. By contrast, if you are unable to complete a 2x20 or a 4x4 workout, then your FTP or VO2 max may be overstated.

Of course FTP is a terrible system and I know saying this won't make me many friends in the training industrial complex. What sense does it make to perform a test and then complain about not being able to perform a workout which is based on that test? Why not just skip a step and let your interval performance be your guide? If the power that you can routinely generate during long intervals done in training is the best estimate of FTP second only to a TT then why not just use that to set workout intensity. Similarly, FTP is also a terrible indicator of VO2 max so why not just perform VO2 intervals at maximum sustainable intensity?

The answer to all these questions is because they don't support sales of SW and services.

Regarding TrainerRoad, by their own admission plans are nothing more than a guideline and if that guideline is simply to increase combined interval duration to a practical limit (based on available training time) and then increase intensity then why follow a plan at all if you will need to adjust the training anyway if you perform any type of load monitoring? The answer is you shouldn't because you are guaranteed to be continually over and under training unless you are using RPE and other methods to ensure proper workout quality.

To help address this critical flaw TR inserts arbitrary variability (also presumably for entertainment purposes because of their other threat, Zwift) which is a barrier to measurement and comparison but that is good for business because clarity would lead back to understanding which leads to adjustments which invalidates the plan.

Of course the biggest issue facing TR is that there is no reason to pay for a plan once you have it. Just perform the workouts with free software. This is where arbitrary variability comes is as well as a desperate move because then people say "it's too hard to re-create the workouts in free SW" but simple repeats don't even have to be created ; you just use manually-controlled fixed power while simultaneously maintaining workout quality by adding intervals as needed, etc.

So TrainerRoad's only play is to rely on ignorant and lazy cyclists. Good luck with that because cyclists are waking up.

Last edited by fstrnu; 12-07-18 at 10:53 AM. Reason: Re-write
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Old 09-28-18, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by fstrnu View Post
INTRO

Many cyclists' understanding of their indoor training is limited to plugging a number from a test into a generic indoor training plan like those found on Zwift and Trainer Road.

Reasons I've heard for this include "they have already worked it out so I don't have to" or "I'd never be able to figure this out".

For many athletes, there is a false choice between some massive effort requiring a genius IQ and buying a solution from someone (AKA becoming dependent).

Vendors reinforce this by doing things such as dismissing the value of heart rate information which can be used to understand your training. Can't have that.

Incidentally, it's in the indoor environment using fixed power under controlled conditions that the relationship between effort, heart rate and power is most reliable.

ANY athlete can be independent and without a Harvard degree or spending hundreds of hours on plan development / analysis.

I will clarify at this point that I am not saying that an independent athlete will have better results than a dependent athlete and I am a very strong advocate of (human, not software) coaches for those who can afford one who is adequately engaged and not overly dependent on boilerplate mathematical models (AKA disengaged).

But I do believe that independent athletes will have both greater satisfaction and better results than software dependent athletes.

The cycling software industry is so silly and dominant nowadays that I look to other sports, mainly rowing/ERG and running, for sane discussions about training.

INTERVAL REPEATS

Simple interval repeats are software vendors' worst nightmare because they are intuitive and don't require special software.

Time at intensity is a simple concept to understand.

Intervals allowing us to achieve more time at intensity is a simple concept to understand.

Progressing training by increasing combined interval duration and increasing FTP based on testing is a simple concept to understand.

Taking your training from general to specific, long to short intervals and lower to higher intensity intervals is a simple concept to understand.

The principle of individualization is a simple concept to understand.

Monitoring training and fatigue through RPE, resting heart rate, sleep quality, mood, motivation, etc. is a simple concept to understand.

Failing to complete a workout because it was too hard or you are not recovered enough from the previous workout is a simple concept to understand.

Alternate schedules / microcycles to achieve adequate recovery is a simple concept to understand.

And interval repeats are convenient and easy to perform in manual ERG mode using the software that comes with your trainer.

WHAT TO DO?

Education cannot be the answer as no one is going to choose effort over the candy that is offered by vendors.

I believe the answer is to provide athletes coherent and clearly/consistently progressed indoor training plan templates which can get them started along with guidance on how to monitor and make the inevitable adjustments.

We can also show athletes how to analyze existing plans, identify poorly or arbitrarily designed plans and convert "well-designed" plans with overly complex workouts into interval repeat workouts which can be understood and properly adjusted.

And we can be there for athletes as they become curious and therefore ready for more "advanced", nuanced topics such as using heart rate and cardiac drift as indicators of fitness, fatigue and endurance.
Wow, you have certainly given this a lot of thought.

I have no doubt that much of what you say is likely accurate. However, I don't think that means there is no place for software plans. When I started cycling, I just tried to ride as much as I could. That worked in the beginning, but I rapidly reached a point where I didn't seem to be improving much. Introducing TrainerRoad as a form of structured training resulted in significant improvements in my cycling performance.

I am now at a point where I think I need to retain the services of a coach to progress further and reach my potential. I agree that, at some point, it is best to design and, perhaps more importantly, modify your training based on your own personal conditions, schedule, goals, strengths, weaknesses, etc., whether you do that independently or with the assistance of a coach. To do it right, that will require monitoring one's condition, including fatigue, in some manner. Having said that, I still think my time with the more generic structured training was invaluable, taught me a lot, and was a great transition. I think it has its place.
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Old 09-28-18, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by fstrnu View Post
INTRO

Many cyclists' understanding of their indoor training is limited to plugging a number from a test into a generic indoor training plan like those found on Zwift and Trainer Road.

Reasons I've heard for this include "they have already worked it out so I don't have to" or "I'd never be able to figure this out".

For many athletes, there is a false choice between some massive effort requiring a genius IQ and buying a solution from someone (AKA becoming dependent).

Vendors reinforce this by doing things such as dismissing the value of heart rate information which can be used to understand your training. Can't have that.

Incidentally, it's in the indoor environment using fixed power under controlled conditions that the relationship between effort, heart rate and power is most reliable.

ANY athlete can be independent and without a Harvard degree or spending hundreds of hours on plan development / analysis.

I will clarify at this point that I am not saying that an independent athlete will have better results than a dependent athlete and I am a very strong advocate of (human, not software) coaches for those who can afford one who is adequately engaged and not overly dependent on boilerplate mathematical models (AKA disengaged).

But I do believe that independent athletes will have both greater satisfaction and better results than software dependent athletes.

The cycling software industry is so silly and dominant nowadays that I look to other sports, mainly rowing/ERG and running, for sane discussions about training.

INTERVAL REPEATS

Simple interval repeats are software vendors' worst nightmare because they are intuitive and don't require special software.

Time at intensity is a simple concept to understand.

Intervals allowing us to achieve more time at intensity is a simple concept to understand.

Progressing training by increasing combined interval duration and increasing FTP based on testing is a simple concept to understand.

Taking your training from general to specific, long to short intervals and lower to higher intensity intervals is a simple concept to understand.

The principle of individualization is a simple concept to understand.

Monitoring training and fatigue through RPE, resting heart rate, sleep quality, mood, motivation, etc. is a simple concept to understand.

Failing to complete a workout because it was too hard or you are not recovered enough from the previous workout is a simple concept to understand.

Alternate schedules / microcycles to achieve adequate recovery is a simple concept to understand.

And interval repeats are convenient and easy to perform in manual ERG mode using the software that comes with your trainer.

WHAT TO DO?

Education cannot be the answer as no one is going to choose effort over the candy that is offered by vendors.

I believe the answer is to provide athletes coherent and clearly/consistently progressed indoor training plan templates which can get them started along with guidance on how to monitor and make the inevitable adjustments.

We can also show athletes how to analyze existing plans, identify poorly or arbitrarily designed plans and convert "well-designed" plans with overly complex workouts into interval repeat workouts which can be understood and properly adjusted.

And we can be there for athletes as they become curious and therefore ready for more "advanced", nuanced topics such as using heart rate and cardiac drift as indicators of fitness, fatigue and endurance.
I've done a lot of reading and research on the topic ie friels training bible and power meter books, coggans work etc, I have a PhD(not in a directly relevant field, chemical engineering/immunology), and I've read quite a bit of the literature as well ie sieler et al. I'm still not sure I can put together a plan that is better than a prescribed plan as a new training with power user, because I simply don't have the experience to know if the training plan I design will work, whereas even these predesigned plans have been used by other athletes successfully to build fitness in an efficient manner that least to race results. So I think a caveat of your thinking is that it really applies more the experienced racer with at least a few years of training experience or obviously the best case being a good coach as you suggest.
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Old 09-28-18, 06:37 PM
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Experience is more important than reading a book about intervals.

Ironically, however, experience also reveals that there's a lot of stuff that will work for quite a long time, and a lot of it is embracing the notion that you're going to have to really suffer to make the most of your abilities.

Best training plan in the world won't help if you wimp out every time it starts to hurt or every time you start a ride tired. .
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Old 09-28-18, 06:39 PM
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Also, what's going on with the post? Are you offering a product or a service here or...what? Not really sure where you're going.
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Old 09-29-18, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by SkepticCyclist View Post
Wow, you have certainly given this a lot of thought.

I have no doubt that much of what you say is likely accurate. However, I don't think that means there is no place for software plans. When I started cycling, I just tried to ride as much as I could. That worked in the beginning, but I rapidly reached a point where I didn't seem to be improving much. Introducing TrainerRoad as a form of structured training resulted in significant improvements in my cycling performance.

I am now at a point where I think I need to retain the services of a coach to progress further and reach my potential. I agree that, at some point, it is best to design and, perhaps more importantly, modify your training based on your own personal conditions, schedule, goals, strengths, weaknesses, etc., whether you do that independently or with the assistance of a coach. To do it right, that will require monitoring one's condition, including fatigue, in some manner. Having said that, I still think my time with the more generic structured training was invaluable, taught me a lot, and was a great transition. I think it has its place.
Why do you think you need to retain a coach to progress further?
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Old 09-29-18, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
I've done a lot of reading and research on the topic ie friels training bible and power meter books, coggans work etc, I have a PhD(not in a directly relevant field, chemical engineering/immunology), and I've read quite a bit of the literature as well ie sieler et al. I'm still not sure I can put together a plan that is better than a prescribed plan as a new training with power user, because I simply don't have the experience to know if the training plan I design will work, whereas even these predesigned plans have been used by other athletes successfully to build fitness in an efficient manner that least to race results. So I think a caveat of your thinking is that it really applies more the experienced racer with at least a few years of training experience or obviously the best case being a good coach as you suggest.
You're overthinking it. Your reading too many different things. Start with the Training Bible. Just do what Joe tells you to do. Building a training plan does not require experience. I don't blame you at all for thinking it's overwhelming the way some people present things. Stick with Joe. He's the best teacher out there. He's also recommends interval repeats.

Also, you probably noticed the focus of research on interval repeats. Ever thought about why that is?
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Old 09-29-18, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Experience is more important than reading a book about intervals.

Ironically, however, experience also reveals that there's a lot of stuff that will work for quite a long time, and a lot of it is embracing the notion that you're going to have to really suffer to make the most of your abilities.

Best training plan in the world won't help if you wimp out every time it starts to hurt or every time you start a ride tired. .
The more you understanding your training the faster you accumulate experience. Interval repeats are intuitive and therefore aids understanding.
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Old 09-29-18, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Also, what's going on with the post? Are you offering a product or a service here or...what? Not really sure where you're going.
I believe in the informed athlete so am advocating for this. There are so many market forces against athletes taking control of their training that many don't even consider the possibility of using their brains in any capacity. They just show up, ask what app will think for them and often end up spending more time working around software than learning how to train. It's quite sad.

For old guys like me, understanding training was a given, in fact a fun, part of cycling. We documented what we did in training logs and asked questions to understand and learn from our training. This generation of cyclists (and I mean new cyclists of all ages) simply assumes it's all been worked out for them, which we all know is ridiculous but it sells.

It's not all the athletes' fault though. Shameless vendors (some more than others to be fair) have simply gone too far with the baloney and over-complicating everything to confuse athletes with allegedly black magic solutions. It's disgusting.

There I said it. But let the record reflect that you asked
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Old 09-29-18, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by fstrnu View Post
The more you understanding your training the faster you accumulate experience. Interval repeats are intuitive and therefore aids understanding.
Where do you get the idea that interval repeats are intuitive?

I'd assert that structured interval training is not intuitive in the least.

Now, unstructured, reactive intervals (group rides, hills, etc), there may be something to that. More akin to fartlek training in that regard.
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Old 09-29-18, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by fstrnu View Post
I believe in the informed athlete so am advocating for this. There are so many market forces against athletes taking control of their training that many don't even consider the possibility of using their brains in any capacity. They just show up, ask what app will think for them and often end up spending more time working around software than learning how to train. It's quite sad.

For old guys like me, understanding training was a given, in fact a fun, part of cycling. We documented what we did in training logs and asked questions to understand and learn from our training. This generation of cyclists (and I mean new cyclists of all ages) simply assumes it's all been worked out for them, which we all know is ridiculous but it sells.

It's not all the athletes' fault though. Shameless vendors (some more than others to be fair) have simply gone too far with the baloney and over-complicating everything to confuse athletes with allegedly black magic solutions. It's disgusting.

There I said it. But let the record reflect that you asked
Said what, though?

I still don't understand what your point is, here.

You're advocating thinking for yourself about training? Okay. Great. But, so what?

You could apply that to every single facet of life you could think of. But that's not how humans do things. One, it's not effective and two, it's not efficient. Adults that are cycling as a hobby need both in their training if performance is their goal, because they have other, more significant life demands that they need to think about.
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Old 09-29-18, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by fstrnu View Post
And we can be there for athletes as they become curious and therefore ready for more "advanced", nuanced topics such as using heart rate and cardiac drift as indicators of fitness, fatigue and endurance.
Who is ‘we’? What is the point of your original post?
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Old 09-29-18, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by fstrnu View Post
You're overthinking it. Your reading too many different things. Start with the Training Bible. Just do what Joe tells you to do. Building a training plan does not require experience. I don't blame you at all for thinking it's overwhelming the way some people present things. Stick with Joe. He's the best teacher out there. He's also recommends interval repeats.

Also, you probably noticed the focus of research on interval repeats. Ever thought about why that is?
I guess maybe I'm misunderstanding your point if it's just KISS, but how does a new training cyclist know how many intervals and what type to repeat in a week, or how many weeks to continue a certain set of intervals etc maybe your only point is that complicated erg intervals are unnecessary which I agree with. But in the broad scheme the software based modules of training blocks for addressing various types of fitness required for racing seem like they are pretty effective for many athletes in terms of race specificity
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Old 09-29-18, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by fstrnu View Post
You're overthinking it. Your reading too many different things. Start with the Training Bible. Just do what Joe tells you to do. Building a training plan does not require experience. I don't blame you at all for thinking it's overwhelming the way some people present things. Stick with Joe. He's the best teacher out there. He's also recommends interval repeats.

Also, you probably noticed the focus of research on interval repeats. Ever thought about why that is?
I disagree with that. I think you are wrong about your whole list of "simple to understand." IME, none of that is simple to understand. When I first started serious training, I did exactly what you say, building a lovely periodized training plan straight out of the Bible, starting with where I was and taking me to where I wanted to be. Total failure. I must have taken the training load up too fast, because I could't stay with the plan. I was constantly overreaching so that I had to take days off, which left me even further behind the plan. It does take experience to draft a plan, whether it's your own or your coach's. In that way, it might be better to start with a canned plan. At least then someone in the loop has some experience with training, because it's not the trainee who does.

I think the best teacher for developing a training plan for the self-coached is a premium membership at TrainingPeaks or one of its analogues. There's really no way to be immediately successful at this without data and a coach or experience. The very first thing is to get an uploading heart rate monitor or Garmin or a power meter. Then at least you have data you can plug into TrainingPeaks or one of its analogues. Without data you're out in the boonies, hacking at blackberries with a machete. Sure you can get strong doing that, but it's nasty work.

All that said, I have used the same structured training plan for many years, maybe 15. It's a piece of old Windows software from a company that went out of business long ago. It still runs on my Win7 machine and I have data on there going back all those years. I don't do exactly what the program says because my goals are not the exact goals of that program. Rather I use it as a framework for progressive periodized workouts in a year-long training plan. I've also tried the usual 12-week canned plans, but found them unsatisfactory. 12 weeks is just way too short a time to get from A to Z, at least it is for me. Every year, I need to go from doing 20 mile rides to 400k, from squatting with the bar to half squats with 240. You don't do that in 12 weeks. The average beginning trainee needs to understand that the ideal training plan is about 7 years long. There are no canned plans like that.

Experience is the best teacher and it starts when you begin. None of this is simple, not diet, not the training, not the progression, none of it. I've been training and researching for over 20 years and I'm still a beginner, really. It's been interesting, but a personal coach who's coached 100s of athletes = 100s of lifetimes of learning to train. Personally, I have valued the control, interest level, intellectual satisfaction, and low cost of self-coaching over the certainly better progress I could have obtained through a coach. BTW, "self-coached" is a better descriptor than "independent athlete," describing process rather than relationship.

Trying to take my rant back to your original point, I think experience is the key, no matter how it's obtained: from a canned training plan, Zwift, TrainerRoad, Friel's or other training books, wherever. We are all different and the same thing doesn't work for everyone. Experience starts when you begin. Grab something and have at it.
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Old 09-29-18, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Where do you get the idea that interval repeats are intuitive?

I'd assert that structured interval training is not intuitive in the least.

Now, unstructured, reactive intervals (group rides, hills, etc), there may be something to that. More akin to fartlek training in that regard.
Definition 1d:

Definition of Intuitive
1a : known or perceived by intuition : directly apprehended
had an intuitive awareness of his sister's feelings
b : knowable by intuition
intuitive truths
c : based on or agreeing with intuition
intuitive responses
makes intuitive sense
d : readily learned or understood
software with an intuitive interface
2 : knowing or perceiving by intuition
3 : possessing or given to intuition or insight
an intuitive mind
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Old 09-29-18, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Said what, though?

I still don't understand what your point is, here.

You're advocating thinking for yourself about training? Okay. Great. But, so what?

You could apply that to every single facet of life you could think of. But that's not how humans do things. One, it's not effective and two, it's not efficient. Adults that are cycling as a hobby need both in their training if performance is their goal, because they have other, more significant life demands that they need to think about.
Believe me it doesn't take much thought to outperform software and people routinely put more thought into working around software that doesn't work than it would take to understand the basics.
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Old 09-29-18, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
Who is ‘we’? What is the point of your original post?
See above.
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Old 09-29-18, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
how does a new training cyclist know how many intervals and what type to repeat in a week, or how many weeks to continue a certain set of intervals etc
From OP:

I believe the answer is to provide athletes coherent and clearly/consistently progressed indoor training plan templates which can get them started along with guidance on how to monitor and make the inevitable adjustments.
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Old 09-29-18, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by fstrnu View Post
From OP:

I believe the answer is to provide athletes coherent and clearly/consistently progressed indoor training plan templates which can get them started along with guidance on how to monitor and make the inevitable adjustments.
besides being very handwavy I'm still not sure what that means on a practical level. No one else here seems to be able to follow along with what you are exactly trying to do either. Based on that paragraph I dont see how its differentiated from say picking and choosing a trainerroad program that fits your needs and time schedule
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Old 09-29-18, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
I disagree with that. I think you are wrong about your whole list of "simple to understand." IME, none of that is simple to understand. When I first started serious training, I did exactly what you say, building a lovely periodized training plan straight out of the Bible, starting with where I was and taking me to where I wanted to be. Total failure. I must have taken the training load up too fast, because I could't stay with the plan. I was constantly overreaching so that I had to take days off, which left me even further behind the plan. It does take experience to draft a plan, whether it's your own or your coach's. In that way, it might be better to start with a canned plan. At least then someone in the loop has some experience with training, because it's not the trainee who does.
From OP:

I believe the answer is to provide athletes coherent and clearly/consistently progressed indoor training plan templates which can get them started along with guidance on how to monitor and make the inevitable adjustments.

Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
I think the best teacher for developing a training plan for the self-coached is a premium membership at TrainingPeaks or one of its analogues. There's really no way to be immediately successful at this without data and a coach or experience. The very first thing is to get an uploading heart rate monitor or Garmin or a power meter. Then at least you have data you can plug into TrainingPeaks or one of its analogues. Without data you're out in the boonies, hacking at blackberries with a machete. Sure you can get strong doing that, but it's nasty work.
Agree 100% regarding importance of data.

Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Trying to take my rant back to your original point, I think experience is the key, no matter how it's obtained: from a canned training plan, Zwift, TrainerRoad, Friel's or other training books, wherever. We are all different and the same thing doesn't work for everyone. Experience starts when you begin. Grab something and have at it.
100% agree experience is key and you won't accumulate experience with your eyes closed and your brain turned off.
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Old 09-29-18, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by fstrnu View Post
Definition 1d:

Definition of Intuitive
1a : known or perceived by intuition : directly apprehended
had an intuitive awareness of his sister's feelings
b : knowable by intuition
intuitive truths
c : based on or agreeing with intuition
intuitive responses
makes intuitive sense
d : readily learned or understood
software with an intuitive interface
2 : knowing or perceiving by intuition
3 : possessing or given to intuition or insight
an intuitive mind
You said interval sets are intuitive. Now you're introducing an entirely new stipulation concerning following a virtual program being intuitive. That's not what you said before.

So far you're really throwing a lot of stuff out there that doesn't make a lot of sense.

And frankly, I STILL don't get the point.
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Old 09-29-18, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by fstrnu View Post
Believe me it doesn't take much thought to outperform software and people routinely put more thought into working around software that doesn't work than it would take to understand the basics.
I'm not really believing anything you're saying, because it doesn't seem like you really understand the topic at hand, here.
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Old 09-29-18, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
I dont see how its differentiated from say picking and choosing a trainerroad program that fits your needs and time schedule
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Old 09-29-18, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
You said interval sets are intuitive. Now you're introducing an entirely new stipulation concerning following a virtual program being intuitive. That's not what you said before.

So far you're really throwing a lot of stuff out there that doesn't make a lot of sense.

And frankly, I STILL don't get the point.
Not new stipulation. See OP quote below.

And all athletes aren't without guilt. They COULD understand if they would bother but they can be lazy too ; not ONLY manipulated.

From OP:

Education cannot be the answer as no one is going to choose effort over the candy that is offered by vendors.

I believe the answer is to provide athletes coherent and clearly/consistently progressed indoor training plan templates which can get them started along with guidance on how to monitor and make the inevitable adjustments.
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Old 09-29-18, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by fstrnu View Post
Not new stipulation. See OP quote below.

And all athletes aren't without guilt. They COULD understand if they would bother but they can be lazy too ; not ONLY manipulated.

From OP:

Education cannot be the answer as no one is going to choose effort over the candy that is offered by vendors.

I believe the answer is to provide athletes coherent and clearly/consistently progressed indoor training plan templates which can get them started along with guidance on how to monitor and make the inevitable adjustments.
Yes, a new stipulation.

Because interval training is not intuitive. Now you're making some random assertion that people can learn how to follow instructions from a program? Big deal.

And what's this manipulation garbage? What's your beef with coaching and coaching software again?
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