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Can Zwift make you faster?

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Old 01-04-19, 12:15 PM
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redlude97
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Can Zwift make you faster?

Since some of us aren't machines that can stare at a timer all winter, maybe paid software isn't as bad as its made out to be by some, and maybe its even beneficial?
https://www.jellylegs.com/blog/can-z...ake-you-faster
Also interesting to see what sort of motivation online competition can drive even some well seasoned Cat 1 racers, being able to power PR indoors
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Old 01-04-19, 05:41 PM
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I signed up about a month ago, it pretty awesome. I'm liking it. I'll definitely be stronger in the spring. Stronger mid summer, that remains to be seen.
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Old 01-04-19, 08:24 PM
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I've used Zwift every winter since Beta, though I don't hit PRs on it.

In the last two weeks my 20 min power has jumped up 39 watts (albeit from a horrendously low baseline).

I find that racing on Zwift is completely unlike racing in real life in that a real race for me is way more stochastic, with way, way, way, way harder surges. A races in Zwift are much more of a sorta hard effort and then hold around sweetspot or threshold with minor hard surges, and then a sorta hard effort at the end. Namely due to the completely unrealistic draft. But that's perfect for winter time for me, so I try to do a few each week.

I like the mountain for doing threshold workouts, and I like the group workouts for similar work as well. In all, it's an excellent way to get in 45-60 minutes of threshold-type hard work that doesn't take so much out of you that you couldn't turn around and do it the next day and the next.

I've never had such effective winter workouts so far as hitting higher wattages as I have with Zwift.

My type of winter routine.
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Old 01-04-19, 08:28 PM
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I started using Zwift this year. It makes riding indoors much more tolerable. I know some people seem to think it's a badge of honour to be bored (shows mental toughness I guess), but, IMO, anything that makes you more willing to ride is likely a good thing.
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Old 01-04-19, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
I've used Zwift every winter since Beta, though I don't hit PRs on it.

In the last two weeks my 20 min power has jumped up 39 watts (albeit from a horrendously low baseline).

I find that racing on Zwift is completely unlike racing in real life in that a real race for me is way more stochastic, with way, way, way, way harder surges. A races in Zwift are much more of a sorta hard effort and then hold around sweetspot or threshold with minor hard surges, and then a sorta hard effort at the end. Namely due to the completely unrealistic draft. But that's perfect for winter time for me, so I try to do a few each week.

I like the mountain for doing threshold workouts, and I like the group workouts for similar work as well. In all, it's an excellent way to get in 45-60 minutes of threshold-type hard work that doesn't take so much out of you that you couldn't turn around and do it the next day and the next.

I've never had such effective winter workouts so far as hitting higher wattages as I have with Zwift.

My type of winter routine.
I haven't paid too much attention to this. What do you think is wrong with the draft? Too weak of an effect? Too strong?
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Old 01-04-19, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
I haven't paid too much attention to this. What do you think is wrong with the draft? Too weak of an effect? Too strong?
I'm not really sure what it is. For one, you can't ever really coast in Zwift which is completely unlike an actual group ride or pace line where you can sit up and not pedal at all for multiple seconds at a time. In zwift a pause or a dropout can send you out the back with no chance to catch up.

And then the effort required to stay on the group if your avatar decides not to draft, which seems to happen a lot. Like today, I was in a group, and my guy shifted to the right and suddenly I was out of the draft and the pack opened up 4m then 5m and I was sprinting for 5 seconds to get back on, and that happens all the time. Even in the middle of the group, a guy in front will move and all of the sudden I'm going backwards and my avatar won't swing back into the draft for whatever reason. He's just tucked down low trucking along as the group moves by until I sprint to get back on to the back.

But anyway, that just leads to the more threshold-esque efforts. No real pauses or letups, but also no blood-curdling efforts either, unless you're going full-blast in the sprint or something.

Not necessarily a bad thing, and creates a good workout for me in the winter time. It's just an aspect of the game you have to adjust to, as with most anything I guess.
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Old 01-05-19, 12:51 PM
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The guy in the video seems to be talking / narrating the climb as he is racing it. If that is true, I call BS on that. Who is going to be able to climb at that power level and HR and be able to do anything but grunt.

I tried Zwift when it first came out and it is good and the graphics and features have improved over time. I think it is a great workout and like most training, it is all about goals versus strengths and weaknesses. As Rubik said there is no easy pedaling per se or coasting hence power to weight is very important if the goal is keeping up in a Zwift group. Also, a high reading power meter is a nice feature to have.

Indoors, I find that I am about 7% lower FTP on the trainer than outdoors. If I ride the trainer a lot, the gap closes.

When I used Dmitry as my coach, who was a former Russian Federation pro cyclist and ran the Belarus National team, I was expected to show up at his cycling gym two days a week for work on the trainer / rollers under his supervision even if the weather was nice. He told me all the Russians, Poles, Czechs and etc were indoors on trainers preparing for the racing season. I reminded him that was because Minsk was frozen right now.

He showed me pics of two person rollers. The Ruskies are something else.

I think one can get faster on Zwift and have a great time riding indoors and it certainly worth the money.

I have cycling friends that swear by Peloton and own a peloton and purchase a monthly subscription and are very good cyclists outdoors. And they know a lot about training that they learned from Peloton.

One could develop the ultimate training plan with new secret sauce and if no athlete will do it or try it, it is worthless. IMO, training is about doing the work consistently over a long period of time. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then is not an act but a habit.
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Old 01-05-19, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
I'm not really sure what it is. For one, you can't ever really coast in Zwift which is completely unlike an actual group ride or pace line where you can sit up and not pedal at all for multiple seconds at a time. In zwift a pause or a dropout can send you out the back with no chance to catch up.

And then the effort required to stay on the group if your avatar decides not to draft, which seems to happen a lot. Like today, I was in a group, and my guy shifted to the right and suddenly I was out of the draft and the pack opened up 4m then 5m and I was sprinting for 5 seconds to get back on, and that happens all the time. Even in the middle of the group, a guy in front will move and all of the sudden I'm going backwards and my avatar won't swing back into the draft for whatever reason. He's just tucked down low trucking along as the group moves by until I sprint to get back on to the back.

But anyway, that just leads to the more threshold-esque efforts. No real pauses or letups, but also no blood-curdling efforts either, unless you're going full-blast in the sprint or something.

Not necessarily a bad thing, and creates a good workout for me in the winter time. It's just an aspect of the game you have to adjust to, as with most anything I guess.
Crap. Now that you've mentioned these things, I noticed pretty much every one of them on my ride today. Group ride with > 2500 people, and I gut a "close the gap" message 10 meters from the start. My avatar constantly chose not to be in the draft too.
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Old 01-07-19, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
The guy in the video seems to be talking / narrating the climb as he is racing it. If that is true, I call BS on that. Who is going to be able to climb at that power level and HR and be able to do anything but grunt.

I tried Zwift when it first came out and it is good and the graphics and features have improved over time. I think it is a great workout and like most training, it is all about goals versus strengths and weaknesses. As Rubik said there is no easy pedaling per se or coasting hence power to weight is very important if the goal is keeping up in a Zwift group. Also, a high reading power meter is a nice feature to have.

Indoors, I find that I am about 7% lower FTP on the trainer than outdoors. If I ride the trainer a lot, the gap closes.

When I used Dmitry as my coach, who was a former Russian Federation pro cyclist and ran the Belarus National team, I was expected to show up at his cycling gym two days a week for work on the trainer / rollers under his supervision even if the weather was nice. He told me all the Russians, Poles, Czechs and etc were indoors on trainers preparing for the racing season. I reminded him that was because Minsk was frozen right now.

He showed me pics of two person rollers. The Ruskies are something else.

I think one can get faster on Zwift and have a great time riding indoors and it certainly worth the money.

I have cycling friends that swear by Peloton and own a peloton and purchase a monthly subscription and are very good cyclists outdoors. And they know a lot about training that they learned from Peloton.

One could develop the ultimate training plan with new secret sauce and if no athlete will do it or try it, it is worthless. IMO, training is about doing the work consistently over a long period of time. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then is not an act but a habit.
He's narrating after. There's a physiological component and a psychological component to cycling, which sometime people/coaches tend to forget. Keeping motivation high indoors/winters and for multiple seasons in a row is hard for most people so whatever way you can get people to ride more will likely result in better training even if the plan isn't as precise
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Old 01-07-19, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post

One could develop the ultimate training plan with new secret sauce and if no athlete will do it or try it, it is worthless. IMO, training is about doing the work consistently over a long period of time. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then is not an act but a habit.
Your statement reminds me of Eric Helms' excellent video(s) on the pyramid of strength training. While the "higher" (less important) levels aren't really applicable to cycling, the principal still applies (as it does to all types of physical activity IMO). Consistency/adherence is most important. After that, intensity/duration/frequency and progression. If you don't have these, not much else matters.

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Old 01-08-19, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
I started using Zwift this year. It makes riding indoors much more tolerable. I know some people seem to think it's a badge of honour to be bored (shows mental toughness I guess), but, IMO, anything that makes you more willing to ride is likely a good thing.
My feelings exactly.
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Old 01-09-19, 02:15 AM
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Sure can't hurt. One of my friends is among the fastest local cyclists, although he doesn't race. He's top ten or KOM on many local segments. Last year he started Zwifting more often, at least on the hottest summer and coldest/wettest winter days. When he does go outdoors for rides he's as fast as always, maybe faster. He's beaten some of his own best times and has shoved me farther down the list on the few where I've cracked the top ten. I think he's in his 50s and rides like a much younger man.

I just use an older Cycleops without any software, just Wahoo Fitness as a timer for intervals. It didn't improve my road speed but helped me maintain fitness last year when I was injured and ill most of the year. So I can see how a structured program with incentives could motivate us to get stronger -- even if the techniques and feel don't match a crit. I haven't raced crits since my teens/20s and don't plan to again so it wouldn't matter. But I'd like to try time trials. I'd need to work on sustaining 300 watts over distance. Judging from my Strava data I tend to sag after 5-6 minutes, even though I probably had more in the tank. So the unstructured trainer work isn't quite enough to push me.

Another friend used Zwift almost all of 2018 after she was badly injured when a dog knocked her off her bike. She only recently resumed cycling outdoors again and didn't lose any fitness. She doesn't ride particularly fast but found some casual ride Zwift groups that encouraged her to stay fit, which is terrific. Good for her self confidence.

Last edited by canklecat; 01-09-19 at 02:18 AM.
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Old 01-09-19, 06:13 AM
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Every Cat 1, 2, and 3, I ride with, either frequently or occasionally, is on Zwift in the winter time.

Suffice to say, there are a lot of very fast bike racers utilizing the competitive and training aspects of Zwift to maintain or even improve fitness, especially during the darker winter months.
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Old 01-10-19, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
I started using Zwift this year. It makes riding indoors much more tolerable. I know some people seem to think it's a badge of honour to be bored (shows mental toughness I guess), but, IMO, anything that makes you more willing to ride is likely a good thing.
I've just begun using Zwift. Had some minor install issues followed by some paired device issues that appear to be related to my lap tops poor Bluetooth support, also resolved. I'm no athlete, just looking for something to keep me more engaged during winter when outside rides are fewer and farther between. It also satisfies my geeky side. Still in the free trial period, but may well subscribe for 3-4 months/yr.
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Old 01-10-19, 12:05 PM
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Every Cat 1, 2, and 3, I ride with, either frequently or occasionally rides his bike. Suffice to say, there are a lot of very fast bike racers utilizing the competitive and training aspects of riding their bike to maintain or even improve fitness.

Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Every Cat 1, 2, and 3, I ride with, either frequently or occasionally, is on Zwift in the winter time.

Suffice to say, there are a lot of very fast bike racers utilizing the competitive and training aspects of Zwift to maintain or even improve fitness, especially during the darker winter months.
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Old 01-10-19, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Every Cat 1, 2, and 3, I ride with, either frequently or occasionally, is on Zwift in the winter time.

Suffice to say, there are a lot of very fast bike racers utilizing the competitive and training aspects of Zwift to maintain or even improve fitness, especially during the darker winter months.
Yup. And with a zillion preloaded workouts, I've been able to find pretty much all my go-to routines. Or close enough.
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Old 01-10-19, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by fstrnu View Post
Every Cat 1, 2, and 3, I ride with, either frequently or occasionally rides his bike. Suffice to say, there are a lot of very fast bike racers utilizing the competitive and training aspects of riding their bike to maintain or even improve fitness.
So you've just regressed to simple trolling at this point, huh? Half a dozen threads filled with your nonsense weren't enough, now you're just going to bastardize other people's posta and threads.

Your schtick is tired. Find a better one. And post something original for once. We're all well aware of your propensity for messing up other people's work.
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Old 01-10-19, 11:00 PM
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This has been an interesting thread, so I went over to zwift.com for a look. I was a bit put off by the paucity of information there about the platform. There was stuff to buy, but no information. Where does one go to learn about how the platform works, what can be connected to what and so forth. You know, the theory and practice of it. Power meters? Display and OS requirements? Communication? You know, what normal tech websites feature. I'll have a spare windows machine and monitor pretty soon and my resistance rollers would be fun with a hub PM, etc. OTOH I'm sure as heck not going to buy a fancy trainer plus all the rest of that stuff when I've been having good fun on those rollers these past 20 years.
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Old 01-11-19, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
This has been an interesting thread, so I went over to zwift.com for a look. I was a bit put off by the paucity of information there about the platform. There was stuff to buy, but no information. Where does one go to learn about how the platform works, what can be connected to what and so forth. You know, the theory and practice of it. Power meters? Display and OS requirements? Communication? You know, what normal tech websites feature. I'll have a spare windows machine and monitor pretty soon and my resistance rollers would be fun with a hub PM, etc. OTOH I'm sure as heck not going to buy a fancy trainer plus all the rest of that stuff when I've been having good fun on those rollers these past 20 years.
I'd like something/some place that might help decipher the Zwift interface while riding. I see a number of things and symbols flashing by but are so brief, I'm clueless. Currently using a laptop screen, though up close, that doesn't help much in this regard.
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Old 01-11-19, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
This has been an interesting thread, so I went over to zwift.com for a look. I was a bit put off by the paucity of information there about the platform. There was stuff to buy, but no information. Where does one go to learn about how the platform works, what can be connected to what and so forth. You know, the theory and practice of it. Power meters? Display and OS requirements? Communication? You know, what normal tech websites feature. I'll have a spare windows machine and monitor pretty soon and my resistance rollers would be fun with a hub PM, etc. OTOH I'm sure as heck not going to buy a fancy trainer plus all the rest of that stuff when I've been having good fun on those rollers these past 20 years.
zwiftinsider.com has some useful information. You're right, the main website isn't very good. If you have a PM, that's the main thing. Plus, you need a way for it to communicate with your PC. This can be done two ways:
ant+ - probably have to buy a USB receiver for your PC so you can get the signal. Something like this:
https://www.amazon.ca/PerfPRO-CycleO...B+dongle&psc=1

bluetooth - use your smartphone as the "middleman" with the zwift companion app. Your phone has to be on the same network as the PC.

For the computer itself, it doesn't have to be particularly powerful. I've run Zwift on a first generation Surface Pro without issues.
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Old 01-11-19, 09:08 AM
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I did a simple how to use Zwift search on youtube and found these. Maybe good...maybe not.



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Old 01-11-19, 09:13 AM
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And if you do not want to use a power meter, there is this. Hey, if your rollers read higher power than actual, just say hallelujah.

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Old 01-11-19, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
And if you do not want to use a power meter, there is this. Hey, if your rollers read higher power than actual, just say hallelujah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2S_IQaYnJ0
See, now this is interesting to me, especially since I ride rollers with a fixed gear.

Thank you for posting it.


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Old 01-11-19, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
See, now this is interesting to me, especially since I ride rollers with a fixed gear.

Thank you for posting it.
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You are welcome. Good luck with that.
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Old 01-11-19, 12:15 PM
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I've used rollers a few times with zwift but had to stop doing it in races or groups as I'd roll off the sides when doing the turns and 180s in the group. I could never get my body to stop following my gaze.
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