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No, chocolate milk does not improve the recovery of athletes (French version only)

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No, chocolate milk does not improve the recovery of athletes (French version only)

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Old 02-12-19, 06:36 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
the only question is whether CM provides additional benefit.
It does because it contains high quality protein.
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Old 02-12-19, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
It does because it contains high quality protein.
So does a lot of food we eat in our general diet. It hasn't been proven that there is necessarily increased recovery
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Old 02-12-19, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
I did skip the cigarettes. Too many empty calories in those candy cigs.
They don't even taste as good as they used to.
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Old 02-12-19, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
They don't even taste as good as they used to.
Like everything from our childhood.



Whaddaya mean, no more candy cigarettes?
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Old 02-12-19, 07:11 PM
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I might point out that articles like that are stupid. There is no placebo for chocolate milk except water. Everything else contains active ingredients. Were one of those studies to find that there was no difference between chocolate milk and plain water after a hard century, I would call the researchers liars.

I posted a JAMA analysis of nutritional studies a while back. The analysis pointed out that almost every nutritional study contained researcher bias. Why would that be? Because nutrition is so complicated and crawling with confounders.

There's a really famous stupid study done years ago and still resonating in product marketing. That study found that if they added protein to a carbohydrate drink at a ratio of 3 carbs/1 protein, athlete recovery was improved. Yeah, well DUH, if you increase calories by 1/3, sure enough, recovery improves.
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Old 02-12-19, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
I might point out that articles like that are stupid. There is no placebo for chocolate milk except water. Everything else contains active ingredients. Were one of those studies to find that there was no difference between chocolate milk and plain water after a hard century, I would call the researchers liars.

I posted a JAMA analysis of nutritional studies a while back. The analysis pointed out that almost every nutritional study contained researcher bias. Why would that be? Because nutrition is so complicated and crawling with confounders.

There's a really famous stupid study done years ago and still resonating in product marketing. That study found that if they added protein to a carbohydrate drink at a ratio of 3 carbs/1 protein, athlete recovery was improved. Yeah, well DUH, if you increase calories by 1/3, sure enough, recovery improves.
Thats not really how it works though, water is not a good placebo in such a study, it depends on the question being asked. if added 3:1 carbs to fat would recovery be improved even though calories increased? What about if the recovery drinks were isocaloric?We know about mechanisms involved in metabolism, muscle synthesis, and glycogen replenishment etc to guide the questions being asked In general, I find the main issue is not with the science/research itself but rather the conclusions drawn, but if you take the time to analyze the data you can draw your own conclusions
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Old 02-12-19, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
Thats not really how it works though, water is not a good placebo in such a study, it depends on the question being asked. if added 3:1 carbs to fat would recovery be improved even though calories increased? What about if the recovery drinks were isocaloric?We know about mechanisms involved in metabolism, muscle synthesis, and glycogen replenishment etc to guide the questions being asked In general, I find the main issue is not with the science/research itself but rather the conclusions drawn, but if you take the time to analyze the data you can draw your own conclusions
The title of the article is "No, chocolate milk does not improve the recovery of athletes." Which is a stupid. Of course chocolate milk improves the recovery of athletes. And even water isn't a true placebo because it has a physiological effect, that of hydration. If one were testing aspirin vs. ibuprofen, is the aspirin a placebo? Of course not. A placebo does nothing. From the Latin: placebo "I shall please," "a harmless pill, medicine, or procedure prescribed more for the psychological benefit to the patient than for any physiological effect."

A true title and conclusion might be, "Chocolate milk improves the recovery of athletes no more than this researcher's favorite substitute for it." I would have no problem with that as long as the research continued through at least a couple weeks of hard training and follow-up.
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Old 02-13-19, 09:05 AM
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Chocolate milk comes from chocolate cows that’s true because I read it on the Internet.
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Old 02-13-19, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
The title of the article is "No, chocolate milk does not improve the recovery of athletes." Which is a stupid. Of course chocolate milk improves the recovery of athletes. And even water isn't a true placebo because it has a physiological effect, that of hydration. If one were testing aspirin vs. ibuprofen, is the aspirin a placebo? Of course not. A placebo does nothing. From the Latin: placebo "I shall please," "a harmless pill, medicine, or procedure prescribed more for the psychological benefit to the patient than for any physiological effect."

A true title and conclusion might be, "Chocolate milk improves the recovery of athletes no more than this researcher's favorite substitute for it." I would have no problem with that as long as the research continued through at least a couple weeks of hard training and follow-up.
I already addressed what I thought of the title above. Two things: water as a placebo for CM is a poor because it doesn't have the same psycological effect, thats why artificially flavored and sweetened solutions are used, just read the studies. Second, comparing to a placebo doesn't answer the question being asked in most of the studies(not the article but the actual studies) which is why CM is compared to carbs only, carbs+electrolytes, or chocolate soy or almond milk in some studies etc, the question being asked is if there is anything special about chocolate milk that provides additional benefit. Thats why I advocate to look beyond article summaries and look at the data itself whenever possible to draw your own conclusions.
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Old 02-13-19, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
I already addressed what I thought of the title above. Two things: water as a placebo for CM is a poor because it doesn't have the same psycological effect, thats why artificially flavored and sweetened solutions are used, just read the studies. Second, comparing to a placebo doesn't answer the question being asked in most of the studies(not the article but the actual studies) which is why CM is compared to carbs only, carbs+electrolytes, or chocolate soy or almond milk in some studies etc, the question being asked is if there is anything special about chocolate milk that provides additional benefit. Thats why I advocate to look beyond article summaries and look at the data itself whenever possible to draw your own conclusions.
Quite right, thanks.

I have a friend who drinks a quart of chocolate milk at controls. He's 6'5", so the calories are fine. I tried a pint once at a final control, just in case, but the outcome wasn't the best. I can drink chocolate milk fine off the bike or after, but not on. We were on the final leg of a 15 hour 400, so still going pretty hard.

Everyone needs to test for themselves. Even a well-done study can have a random outcome when applied to an individual. Me, i go for the cheap and simple post-ride: maltodextrin, whey protein, and creatine, then a bagel with cream cheese on the drive home. I'd have to buy chocolate milk ahead, store it, and worry about spoilage in the summer.
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