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Preventable Cancer Burden Associated with Poor Diet in the United States

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Preventable Cancer Burden Associated with Poor Diet in the United States

Old 05-24-19, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by willibrord View Post
Its a common technique to characterize any expert you disagree with as a quack. I can see it having some validity with people like the Health Ranger. Dr. Lustig ,in contrast, is Professor of Pediatrics in the Division of Endocrinology at the University of California. He is somebody who has come to his present point of view from years of research.

You shouldn't accept his points merely because of his credentials, but you should engage with his arguments and refute them on the basis of facts.
OK, lets give him the benefit of the doubt and assume the quote was taken out of context, or without the followup explanation. Better?
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Old 05-24-19, 11:54 AM
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I eat whatever I want though I like the so called healthy foods like vegetables. I will die anyways so I will enjoy my grub while I’m still here.
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Old 05-24-19, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
OK, lets give him the benefit of the doubt and assume the quote was taken out of context, or without the followup explanation. Better?
The only way to really evaluate it is to watch his presentation or to read his writings or a summary therof.

this article - which again is a summary and not the orginal work -says you should limit yourself to two servings of fruit per day. Many people on keto diets eliminate fruit altogether, even picking small bits out of salads etc.

https://www.inspire-fitness.com.au/b...-than-alcohol/
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Old 05-24-19, 01:14 PM
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High-fructose corn syrup is the problem, not fresh fruit.

The guy is right about it inducing formation of omentum fat.

Equating it with alcohol toxicity isn't helpful.
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Old 05-24-19, 01:38 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
I eat whatever I want though I like the so called healthy foods like vegetables. I will die anyways so I will enjoy my grub while Iím still here.
This is where we differ. I have no plan to die.
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Old 05-24-19, 03:08 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
High-fructose corn syrup is the problem, not fresh fruit.

The guy is right about it inducing formation of omentum fat.

Equating it with alcohol toxicity isn't helpful.
High fructose corn syrup is just part of the problem. Fructose containing soda drinks are just as bad. Honey is high in fructose as well, but it is a different type of fructose, naturally produced not made in a lab.It is more healthful to cut all sugars, not just fructose.
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Old 05-24-19, 04:57 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Taubes. The quote is from Michael Pollan. Everything he writes is fun to read.
Right! That's who I meant
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Old 05-24-19, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by willibrord View Post
Many people on keto diets eliminate fruit altogether, even picking small bits out of salads etc.
People who follow keto diets do so because they are ignorant and don't know what they're doing... Cutting out fruits, vegetables, legumes, grains and getting majority of your calories from fat and protein is a sure way to shorten your lifespan. When you're follow a keto diet you're cutting out a massive amount of nutrients from plants which are necessary for optimal human health... Keto diets were originally designed to be used temporarily to treat epilepsy under medical supervision ...Keto diets were not designed for improving athletic performance or for improving long term health and longetivity.
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Old 05-24-19, 05:33 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Fruit is worse for you than alcohol?
Not fruit, but how about a couple Big Gulps/day? Or always having a soda drink with you? I see that a lot. I've known a couple slim and strong alcoholics, no apparent adipose fat. Doesn't fit the usual picture, does it? It depends on what else you do besides drink.
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Old 05-24-19, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
High-fructose corn syrup is the problem, not fresh fruit.

The guy is right about it inducing formation of omentum fat.

Equating it with alcohol toxicity isn't helpful.
Often the messenger misstates the issue for their own purposes. Here's a good read which I believe states the issue correctly:
https://www.jci.org/articles/view/37385

It's not just the calories, it's the delivery vehicle.

Honey is nearly chemically identical with HFCS. Fortunately it's hard to consume enough honey to make it a problem

Weird that people attempt to conflate HFCS overconsumption with simply eating carbs.

Interesting that the Team Sky on-bike beverage of choice is a very close cousin of HFCS.
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Old 05-24-19, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by willibrord View Post
High fructose corn syrup is just part of the problem. Fructose containing soda drinks are just as bad. Honey is high in fructose as well, but it is a different type of fructose, naturally produced not made in a lab.It is more healthful to cut all sugars, not just fructose.
No, doing that increases your risk of cancer, and cancer isn't healthy. It's more helpful to put dogma aside.
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Old 05-24-19, 07:39 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Not fruit, but how about a couple Big Gulps/day? Or always having a soda drink with you? I see that a lot. I've known a couple slim and strong alcoholics, no apparent adipose fat. Doesn't fit the usual picture, does it? It depends on what else you do besides drink.
I don't know how big a big gulp is, but I probably drink that much water in a day, maybe more. Can't do sugary drinks, although orange juice with full pulp is great after a long ride on a hot summer day.

But if people are drinking too much soda that doesn't mean they should stop eating apples, better, and baby carrots (ok not a fruit, but delicious and sweet).

You need variety and nutrition in your diet. Cutting out 1 of 3 nutrient groups hinders that, probably makes it impossible.
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Old 05-24-19, 07:41 PM
  #38  
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If I was reading this and eating a low carb or other kind of bad diet, I would start taking fiber supplements and multivitamins.

Even knowing I wouldn't be able to absorb most of it, that supplements are mostly for expensive pee.
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Old 05-24-19, 09:45 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by willibrord View Post
High fructose corn syrup is just part of the problem. Fructose containing soda drinks are just as bad. Honey is high in fructose as well, but it is a different type of fructose, naturally produced not made in a lab.It is more healthful to cut all sugars, not just fructose.
Actually, it is just as bad. Especially when a lot of people use it as a substitute thinking its better because its natural. Thing is, honey isn't natural, its made by bees. That concentration changes everything.

The preference for fructose is that it comes packaged with fruit, so you get some nutrients and fiber (slower absorption) to go alone with the sugar. You can drink juices and soda all day, but how many apple does a single person eat?
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Old 05-24-19, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
I don't know how big a big gulp is, but I probably drink that much water in a day, maybe more. Can't do sugary drinks, although orange juice with full pulp is great after a long ride on a hot summer day.

But if people are drinking too much soda that doesn't mean they should stop eating apples, better, and baby carrots (ok not a fruit, but delicious and sweet).

You need variety and nutrition in your diet. Cutting out 1 of 3 nutrient groups hinders that, probably makes it impossible.
Of course ridiculous to not eat a balance diet, blackballing some macro. Why not blackball a vitamin?

Big Gulp is a trademarked drink of 7-11. It's 30 oz. and the only caloric ingredient is HFCS, 387 calories:
https://www.nutritionix.com/i/nutrit...7bff0d1dd00234

That's the issue, nothing to do with fruit:
The Big Gulp Effect ? Autopsis
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Old 05-25-19, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by willibrord View Post
High fructose corn syrup is just part of the problem. Fructose containing soda drinks are just as bad. Honey is high in fructose as well, but it is a different type of fructose, naturally produced not made in a lab.It is more healthful to cut all sugars, not just fructose.
I'm curious to know how one fructose molecule can be different from another. Please enlighten us!
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Old 05-25-19, 08:23 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
I'm curious to know how one fructose molecule can be different from another. Please enlighten us!
It's not that it's molecularly different. The issue here is that it's just empty calories without any useful nutrients...Whole fruit is never a 100% fructose but it's usually about 50/50 split between glucose and fructose plus whole fruit also comes with fibre, vitamins, minerals, anitoxidants, polyphenols, and phytochemicals which all work together in synergy.
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Old 05-25-19, 10:10 AM
  #43  
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This started as a thread about how missing lots of foods increases your risk for cancer, but, like many threads that start and nutrition, it's becoming a religious topic about De Debbel's Sugar.
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Old 05-25-19, 10:42 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Of course ridiculous to not eat a balance diet, blackballing some macro. Why not blackball a vitamin?

Big Gulp is a trademarked drink of 7-11. It's 30 oz. and the only caloric ingredient is HFCS, 387 calories:
https://www.nutritionix.com/i/nutrit...7bff0d1dd00234

That's the issue, nothing to do with fruit:
The Big Gulp Effect ? Autopsis
I'm not sure I understand the connection. High fructose corn syrup isn't on the list of things that you should be eating to lower your cancer risk. Nobody has ever told new they're drinking more soda to get healthy.

Maybe this is just my experience, but adults don't really like sugar all that much. When was the last time you saw someone in their 30s eat a bag of pixie sticks? Most of what people over eat is fat with just the right amount of sugar added, most of the calories in a chocolate bar come from fat not sugar, same with iced cream. And that's perfectly fine in moderation. But we're talking about the importance of fruits and vegetables.

I don't know what to say about soda, I don't drink it, find it unpalatable. I'm about to leave to hike Si and Tenerife, I'm going to leave 70 oz of Nuun water in my car for the drive home. Vacuum insulated water bottles are great!
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Old 05-25-19, 10:47 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
No, doing that increases your risk of cancer, and cancer isn't healthy. It's more helpful to put dogma aside.
Okay are you saying cutting all sugars increases risk of cancer? Honest question.
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Old 05-25-19, 11:00 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
People who follow keto diets do so because they are ignorant and don't know what they're doing... Cutting out fruits, vegetables, legumes, grains and getting majority of your calories from fat and protein is a sure way to shorten your lifespan. When you're follow a keto diet you're cutting out a massive amount of nutrients from plants which are necessary for optimal human health... Keto diets were originally designed to be used temporarily to treat epilepsy under medical supervision ...Keto diets were not designed for improving athletic performance or for improving long term health and longetivity.
You are correct about the origin of keto diets. They were originally developed for treating epilepsy, but fell into disuse as Pharma developed drugs and the medical profession adopted them. In the meantime the industrial food and agriculture complex pushed more and more sugars and refined carbohydrates on people and demonized fat , protein and meat.

Eventually the keto diet was rediscovered and research has found it is very effective at reducing excess weight, improving metabolism and eliminating type 2 diabetes. As more experience and research is gained it is coming to the forefront of human nutrition as it promotes athletic performance, helps cardiac health, aids proper sleep, a myriad of health benefits compared to other diets esp. low fat.

You should still consume vegetables, just not sweet or starchy veges and stay away from grains and sugar. Sugar means fruit is off the list, maybe an apple or two per week. And we know sugar feeds cancer cells, so in the context of diet and cancer it should be the first thing to go.
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Old 05-25-19, 11:22 AM
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OTOH, it doesn't sound like its that far off course to me?
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
CNN article:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/22/healt...udy/index.html


JNCI Article:

https://academic.oup.com/jncics/adva...searchresult=1

More than 80,000 new cancer cases are estimated to be associated with suboptimal diet among US adults in 2015, with middle-aged men and racial/ethnic minorities experiencing the largest proportion of diet-associated cancer burden in the US.

What does "poor diet" mean exactly?



The researchers evaluated seven dietary factors: a low intake of vegetables, fruits, whole grains and dairy products and a high intake of processed meats, red meats and sugary beverages, such as soda.





"Low whole-grain consumption was associated with the largest cancer burden in the US, followed by low dairy intake, high processed-meat intake, low vegetable and fruit intake, high red-meat intake and high intake of sugar-sweetened beverages," Zhang said.



The study included data on the dietary intake of adults in the United States between 2013 and 2016, which came from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, as well as data on national cancer incidence in 2015 from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
The order of risk was a little surprising to me, I would think a lack of vegetables and fruits would be #1 , but it's whole grains.


This suggests that low-carb is not healthy, except for people for whom it's medically necessary.
In any event, most threads drift off course, especially those that are pages long, which is why there are mods and the thread starter to nudge them back on course. I started a thread just recently and it ended up being focused on me instead of the topic. Simply restate the question.
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Old 05-25-19, 11:54 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
CNN article:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/22/healt...udy/index.html

JNCI Article:
https://academic.oup.com/jncics/adva...searchresult=1
More than 80,000 new cancer cases are estimated to be associated with suboptimal diet among US adults in 2015, with middle-aged men and racial/ethnic minorities experiencing the largest proportion of diet-associated cancer burden in the US.

What does "poor diet" mean exactly?

The researchers evaluated seven dietary factors: a low intake of vegetables, fruits, whole grains and dairy products and a high intake of processed meats, red meats and sugary beverages, such as soda.


"Low whole-grain consumption was associated with the largest cancer burden in the US, followed by low dairy intake, high processed-meat intake, low vegetable and fruit intake, high red-meat intake and high intake of sugar-sweetened beverages," Zhang said.

The study included data on the dietary intake of adults in the United States between 2013 and 2016, which came from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, as well as data on national cancer incidence in 2015 from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The order of risk was a little surprising to me, I would think a lack of vegetables and fruits would be #1 , but it's whole grains.

This suggests that low-carb is not healthy, except for people for whom it's medically necessary.
Latest research shows that there's a lot more to fiber from whole grain than soft poops. Fiber is food for the microbiome, one of our largest organs. One result of a high whole-grain fiber diet is lower systemic inflammation. Lower systemic inflammation = lower cancer, lower heart disease.
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Old 05-25-19, 11:59 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
It's not that it's molecularly different. The issue here is that it's just empty calories without any useful nutrients...Whole fruit is never a 100% fructose but it's usually about 50/50 split between glucose and fructose plus whole fruit also comes with fibre, vitamins, minerals, anitoxidants, polyphenols, and phytochemicals which all work together in synergy.
But that's not what he said. He said "it's a different type of fructose". I'm curious as to how exactly it is different.
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Old 05-25-19, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Maybe this is just my experience, but adults don't really like sugar all that much.
Speak for yourself, I have a massive sweet tooth.

Last edited by OBoile; 05-25-19 at 01:54 PM.
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