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got training plan?

Old 12-26-20, 09:26 PM
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spelger
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got training plan?

i'd like to start a serious training plan but i don't want a canned version. what i would really like is to understand the science behind why a vo2max is designed the way it is or why a recovery is designed the way it is. those target power levels aren't configured that way just to have a pretty looking profile.

i've hunted around but don't know the proper search terms, most of what i find is crap like "the top 6 training strategies..." or "why you should train like i do and if you don't then you are a..."

i can hold my own fairly well at 53 (in my opinion, at least i am satisfied with my performance). but i would like to improve more specifically faster hill climbing and the ability to go longer and perhaps faster as well though i understand that not all can necessarily be achieved all at once. of course time needs to be managed and i still work full time.

i have a single bike with no power meter. i do have a smart trainer and intend to use that since it does have power built in. that way i can watch my progress.

thanks,
scott
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Old 12-27-20, 11:20 AM
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Google "theory of cycling training." That's a good start. Read everything on the first couple of pages. Caution: there are many ways to get about the same result. There's not one system. That makes it confusing, but it's also a good thing, i.e. ride lots and you'll get there, no matter how you do it. Volume and hills works, as do elaborate structured plans. Also, there are many things riders train for. It's good to have a goal to shape your training around.

The basic ides, even with just riding lots, is that you want to push yourself hard, but not too hard. You want to get tired but not too tired. You want a mix of hard and easy rides, with more time spent easy than hard. This is common to most training plans. I think the most important thing I can pass on is to establish some metrics for yourself so you can tell what's happening with your body.

The simplest thing, since you have HR, is to know what your HR is when climbing as hard as you can for several minutes, say 5 minutes of steady hard effort. Then if you go out for a ride and on your first climb after warming up, your HR simply won't come up no matter how hard you push - you are overtired. Ride easy for a couple days until your HR comes up normally.

For 25 years, I've taken my morning resting and resting standing HR. I get up and pee, then lie down with my transmitter strap on, rest for a few minutes until my HR stops dropping, then watch it for maybe 3 minutes. Remember that HR. Stand up and watch your HR for about 3 minutes. Remember what your HR seems to average for about the last 30". Keep track of these numbers somewhere. If your MRHR gets to be 6-8 beats higher than normal, you have to rest. If the difference between your MRHR and MSHR increases by 10 more than normal, you have to rest. Using these metrics, you can walk the knife edge between training hard and overtraining with confidence. BTW hitting those high numbers and then resting is not a bad thing - it's actually a good thing, a goal really. That's overreaching and you want that stress. During the following rest period, you get stronger.
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Old 12-27-20, 01:28 PM
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How fast do you have to get to a certain level? Mostly that's not a question that needs any answer. But if you have to get to some level fast, you need a coach. Just so someone will be telling you what needs doing and won't consider your excuses for not doing or performing well when done.

Generally time and distance in quantity goes far in getting you into shape. But it's a process that may take a half dozen years to get you feel confident around other decent cyclists. One of the things that riding longer than two hour rides does for me is makes it apparent how small amounts of energy saved here and there during the first hours of the ride come in handy for performing and looking good among others at the finish.

HR, power and other things just give you a reference in conversations to describe the amount of effort in a more comparable way than just saying "I rode hard up that hill" So just pick a method of HR and use it. In the end, if we defined our zones correctly using the method we chose, then those zones will be close enough to any zones that another correctly set using a different HR method.

I like the concept of functional threshold heart rate FTHR which some consider your lactate threshold power LTHR. I myself call it LTHR but worry that the sticklers will come out of the internet and scream you can only find your true lactate threshold in a laboratory. Which technically is correct, but in the world of HR Zones and how accurate they are, the simple non-laboratory way to determine your FTHR/LTHR is good enough and close enough. <grin>

LTHR zones are simple to figure out. The process is much like finding FTP which also has several methods people argue about which is better. Joe Friel's methods are what I used when I set mine long ago, though I've not been in training mode for a long time as for me with little goals, I've found that quantity of riding works wonders. And have time to do it. Though embarrassingly some sure ride a lot more than me and still want more performance. I guess I'm not super competitive, though I do consider someone ahead of me someone to catch up and pass.

https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/j...setting-zones/

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/fitnes...%20minus%20age.

https://joefrielsblog.com/a-quick-gu...-setting-zone/

You'll notice he set 7 zones but the two extra are in the typical zone 5 range of other methods. So I just set 5 zones on my Edge 500 and when it maxes out the upper end of zone 5, it reports it to me on the bike as zone 6. Don't remember whether that means I'm 5b or 5c. But I never did any training to the extent I needed that division in the upper end. For times I do, I'm looking at actual HR numbers in real time while on the bike anyway.

For those of us that don't compete, I think just riding lots and also doing intervals (no planning needed) of all out effort go a long way compared to any formal plan. What comes as you get experience is the same thing that probably makes the difference in really good pro riders..... besides their coached training. They are aware of the results of burning x amount of energy in this moment and how that affects the amount of energy needed to perform at a certain level immediately after expending that energy and also what it means for the energy at the end of the ride.

Hill climbing isn't too magical either as long as you know how to shift to a gear that lets you put out power you can maintain. Hill climbing just gets better over time and repetition and energy you learn to save while getting to the hill. It does help when you finally get to being able to maintain 16 mph or better all the way up a hill to stay a little more aero as you do so instead of sitting up as I was in a bad habit of doing.

If you do need a formal plan to follow with your rides, then read through Joe Friel's blogs, stuff on Training peaks site and other magazine sites like cycling weekly.

Last edited by Iride01; 12-27-20 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 12-27-20, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Google "theory of cycling training." That's a good start. Read everything on the first couple of pages.
thanks, it is a wonder how much useful stuff you find when you have the proper search terms.

Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
How fast do you have to get to a certain level? Mostly that's not a question that needs any answer. But if you have to get to some level fast, you need a coach. Just so someone will be telling you what needs doing and won't consider your excuses for not doing or performing well when done.
no rush to get to any particular level. i am not a racer and do not intend to be. i mainly ride alone but compete against myself.

thanks both of you, i now have something i can read that is useful. my first job will be to properly measure my max heart rate. based on what i have read so far i have modified my program to do just that. tomorrow i'll see how that goes (it works in simulation but reality is always a challenge).

-scott
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Old 12-27-20, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by spelger View Post
thanks, it is a wonder how much useful stuff you find when you have the proper search terms.



no rush to get to any particular level. i am not a racer and do not intend to be. i mainly ride alone but compete against myself.

thanks both of you, i now have something i can read that is useful. my first job will be to properly measure my max heart rate. based on what i have read so far i have modified my program to do just that. tomorrow i'll see how that goes (it works in simulation but reality is always a challenge).

-scott
IMO and the opinion of the majority here, don't bother with max HR. It's not useful. Instead find your lactate threshold HR (LTHR) and set your zones off that. LTHR occurs just below the effort at which you start to pant, so it's not very technical to find it, though one can do a 20' test. Google for it.

It's also not really necessary to have zones or know your LTHR. You can simply train in 2 zones - easy and hard. Easy is below the point at which you start to breathe faster, also known as the conversational pace - one can recite the alphabet easily in one breath. Hard is the zone where if you hold that effort for more than about 3 minutes, you'll start to pant. One does hard 2 days/week and all the rest easy. That's what I've been starting to do this year, just to see. For the past 10 weeks, I've done nothing but easy and lots of it, shooting for 10 hours/week. I've never done this before and so far, I'm amazed at how well this has worked. That's the pros' secret: volume. More volume, but the only way to do big volume is to go easy. The pandemic has lent itself to doing more volume - nothing much else to do.
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