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TSS, CTL and Measuring Fitness Progression

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TSS, CTL and Measuring Fitness Progression

Old 03-18-21, 09:58 PM
  #26  
asgelle
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Originally Posted by atwl77 View Post
Well yes I am training to target TSS, because it represents load or what was mentioned upthread, "ability to handle bigger rides".
One of the basic principles of training is progressive overload. If you’re well trained for a four hour ride at a certain intensity, a five hour ride at that intensity will produce an overload on the system. Two 2.5 hour rides will not. Similarly, a short ride at a higher intensity will overload a different system than the one targeted in a five hour ride.
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Old 03-18-21, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
One of the basic principles of training is progressive overload. If you’re well trained for a four hour ride at a certain intensity, a five hour ride at that intensity will produce an overload on the system. Two 2.5 hour rides will not. Similarly, a short ride at a higher intensity will overload a different system than the one targeted in a five hour ride.
Sure, but it doesn't change the fact that if one has limited time to train, one's just gotta make the best out of the situation. Nothing bad about accumulating every little bit of daily TSS, as long as one doesn't let the ATL run wild, right?
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Old 03-19-21, 07:41 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by atwl77 View Post
Well yes I am training to target TSS, because it represents load or what was mentioned upthread, "ability to handle bigger rides". Maybe the kind of stuff you do prefers a different sort of training - I can see the periodized thing you prefer would benefit seasonal races and such, and that you have the time put into training for it.

But for me, my weekday time is limited. Sometimes I'm tired from work. Sometimes I have an hour to cram a workout in, sometimes I can afford 90 minutes. Sometimes I miss days due to either family, work or personal circumstances. I don't want to follow a structured or periodized plan that prescribes doing specific things, because each day is highly variable. At most I'll think "this week I want to do climbing-focused workouts", "next week I'll do some tempo work" and so on, with some TSS in mind to fit into a longer term CTL/TSB goal. So if on some particular day I had planned for a shorter high IF workout but I didn't get enough sleep that day, screw that plan. I'll just pick a lower IF but longer duration, assuming I can afford the extra duration, to try and match the TSS. Or even a simple 20 TSS recovery. After all, some TSS is better than no TSS.
Except it attempts to quantify what you have done, not what you can do. And even more to that, it reflects what you've done as determined by specific data you put in. In other words, if your baseline data is inaccurate (the FTP, or to a much lesser degree, the NP), then the TSS is wrong. It's like tilting at windmills at that point. But at no point does it prescribe what you can do.

I have multiple years of 6-9 hours a week of training, so I very well understand limited training. That doesn't change the fact that doing the same workout over and over again is less effective, or that using TSS as a basis for training is likely to be less effective than not.

Periodized simply means general fitness to specific. Non-periodized doesn't mean do the same thing all the time.

As for that last line, most certainly at some points in an overload, no stress is better than a little stress. If you're simply chasing arbitrary TSS values and never overloading and never needing that rest, then you'll consequently cease adapting and performing better at some point.
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Old 03-19-21, 07:44 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by atwl77 View Post
Sure, but it doesn't change the fact that if one has limited time to train, one's just gotta make the best out of the situation. Nothing bad about accumulating every little bit of daily TSS, as long as one doesn't let the ATL run wild, right?
Unless you're after performance.

Sure, doing exercise is great if you simply want to do exercise for the sake of doing exercise. But then you've moved the discussion away from structured training for specific performance outcomes and replaced it with specific training exercises you do just for the sake of completing them. Nothing wrong with that, but a very different thing altogether.
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Old 03-19-21, 09:50 AM
  #30  
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If one really wants to do it by FTP, not trusting oneself to do it right otherwise, the trick is to up your FTP until you have trouble finishing the last interval or find your HR going too high trying to hold the power on an endurance ride. That's really simple to do. You don't even have to do an FTP test! Just work yourself at your limit by forcing your monitor to tell you do do that.

If one is doing a real endurance ride, really trying to increase endurance, the trick is to ride hard enough that you're tired at 1/3, exhausted at 2/3, and just dragging your ass to the finish. Endurance starts when you start to endure. You don't have to use any numbers to do that. Just ride your guts out. If you can dismount the bike normally, you could have gone harder.
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