jonathanf2

I really enjoy powerlifting and cycling (mostly hill climbing). I feel both have the same oxygen deprived "high" when pushing the limits! I don't plan to give up either, but I need to come up with a better routine to integrate both. My current routine is to do strength training on even days, cycling on odd days, 6 days a week. The hard part is trying to figure out leg workouts, because when I cycle the next day, my legs aren't fully recovered and hill climbing performance drops. I also mix my riding style with high cadence trail climbing with my gravel bike and more out of saddle road climbing with my road bike. Due to time constraints, I usually limit my riding days between 1-2 hours, gym time is also limited to about an hour a day.

Though I find this routine is starting to tax my 40-something body developing certain aches which didn't exist previously. So now I'm thinking of changing things up. Perhaps increase ride and gym time per day (like 2 hours each), with 1 day breaks in-between. I could also alternate the weeks, dedicating one week for cycling and the other for weight training. Though I feel that leaves large time gaps between exercises, but would give me proper time for recovery. Also I tend to carb up more before bike days and eat more protein before gym days, but any nutritional advice to increase recovery would also be welcomed.

I know there are other cyclists who also enjoy the gym! Giving up one or the other isn't an option. Thanks for any input!

PeteHski

What most serious cyclists do is focus on the heavy weight training during their early base training phase (while their cycling stress is relatively low) and then move into more of a strength maintenance program (i.e less heavy lifting) as they ramp up into their cycling build phase. Otherwise the quality of their bike interval training suffers. Doing both powerlifting and cycling full-on is always going to compromise both activities, so you have to decide on your priorities. 6 days a week training is also pretty stressful, especially for a 40 something. I know if I was in the gym lifting heavy weights for an hour x3 days per week, my cycling performance would go down the pan in no time! It just doesn't sound sustainable to me.

Periodization is probably your answer i.e. focus more on weights for a training block of x weeks and then switch over to more of a biking focus for the next block of x weeks. That will probably give you better quality training for both.

burnthesheep

First, I totally agree with you.

Second though, he listed his hourly spend on this. It isn't in the territory of really taking an "off season". It's more of a well rounded fitness and enthusiast category. I don't think riders really need an off season other than a vacation week here and there until you get over the 8 to 10 hour a week range.

qwaalodge

I do my all my strength training on the bike or trainer. I used to lift weights to improve peak power for sprints, etc, but I found you can also do the same on the bike or trainer without using any goofy adaptations, just some changes in technique.

Behind the premise is the fact, you can exert force on the pedal with one foot much greater than your body weight even on flat pedals without any foot retention.

The way to do this is with the right muscle manipulation. Instead of using your body weight to push the pedals down when you're standing to pedal for example, push the handlebar and pedals apart instead. It's the same technique track sprinters do. All that training to push a weight few times bigger than their body weight all goes to maximize that technique. It places huge strain on the core muscles though, on your lower back so make sure ease into the training. Plenty of warm ups and watch out your heart rate and/or power output. Back down immediately as soon as you feel any soreness on the lower back.

As with weight lifting, the technique should only be limited to a very short duration, like in sprinting. Could be high or low cadence. If not for getting fast, the technique is great for overall body strength training as it involve a lot of body muscles, not only the core muscles but your arms too. This is why track sprinters tend to look like body builders.

jonathanf2

Thanks I'll give this technique a try. Lately I've been monitoring my BPM to help conserve stamina, mainly so I can attack the hill sprints with more power. Also most my focus in the gym is squats and deadlifts. I'm really all about strength training, I just feel as I get older it'll help me in the long term. Plus I'd rather look like a track sprinter!

qwaalodge

No problem! the technique is really quite demanding on the core muscles so be careful.

Increasing the distance between the bike or trainer's BB and handlebar (increase reach and/or stack) would improve leverage on the core muscles and help reduce chance of injury. The setup is not meant to be be ridden for long periods unless you're comfortable with it. Increasing reach would increase load on the hands during light efforts.

When doing the track sprint technique, it should feel like your pushing the handlebar forward while pushing the pedals backward while out of the saddle (standing on the pedals). Shift your body forward to improve leverage on the legs and open the hips (help reduce strain on the core). Your toes would be pointed down as a result. When you see some sprinters pointing their toes down during sprints, That's because they are actually pushing the pedals backwards! They're making most of the power near the bottom of the pedals stroke.

It's different than "scraping" the foot back while sitted on the saddle. The force is much weaker in that case - less than body weight while pushing back, the force can greatly exceed body weight.

wolfchild

Training hard 6 days per week doing powerlifting and cycling is too much...Do your power lifting workouts 2 days per week alternating between squats and deadlifts and ride your bike in between. Do your squats once per week and your deadlifts once per week on separate days and not in the same session. Remember to have easy days, there is no need to hit PRs every training session.

jonathanf2

I know I've been training hard, but I do enjoy doing both. I feel like cycling has really toned my physique, and strength training has allowed me to be much stronger as I age. Also I do quite a bit of body workouts such as pull-ups, ab work and tricep dips almost daily, also I jump rope when not cycling for quick cardio. I ride mainly with younger riders in their 20s and 30s, in fact I've never rode with cyclists my age! Also I don't mind when I get dropped, because I usually analyze those situations and think where I can improve.

My biggest issue is that I like to push myself hard, and it's trying to find that fine balance where I can maximize my potential without burning myself out.

PeteHski

Yeah, I wasn't really suggesting an off-season, more alternating blocks with more focus on either gym or bike. So say a 4 week block with heavy gym sessions and a few light bike sessions, followed by a 4 week block of higher intensity cycling and strength maintenance. Rinse and repeat indefinitely, maybe with the odd recovery week thrown in as necessary.

work4bike

I can't recommend a specific workout regimen; however, I do recommend backing off on intensity with both your weightlifting and riding, but that's not saying reduce time on either, just intensity. I can very much relate to the oxygen deprived “high”, which I also very much enjoy, both in the gym and on the bike. But over time this really takes a toll on the body and while it may feel like you're making gains in the short term, but in the big picture you're losing some edge.

It's taken me a long time to realize this, but after reading a lot about this and self analysis, I've found that I'm much better off if I don't give it 90% on every workout, let alone 100%. But I'm now 57-y/o and maybe that's why I can see the light, after all this time of pushing it to the limit. I still workout very hard, but I try and gap those exertions a little more. Recovery workouts is one of my biggest challenges, but I just try to remember, it's not the intensity of the workout that leads to top physical fitness, rather it's the consistency.

Checkout this article from arguably the greatest marathon runner. You'd think he gives it 90 – 100% on every workout, but he saves those efforts for when it counts. He is the current world record holder in the marathon. And then you got the marathon under 2-hour effort he accomplished.

https://runningmagazine.ca/sections/...-his-easy-day/

PeteHski

That's also my biggest issue. As you get older it also becomes more important to find the right balance. At 54 I've now started taking rest and recovery far more seriously than I ever did in my 30s or 40s. Same goes for nutrition. The good news is that I actually perform better in my target events than ever. I guess I wasn't training very smart 10 years ago!

jonathanf2

That's exactly how I feel now! I'm really in the best shape of my life and I'm kicking myself for not taking my health and fitness more seriously 10-20 years ago! I try to get ample sleep and listen to my body when something feels off. Part of me feels like I have to make up for those years when my body could have been maximized for peak athleticism. A lot of younger cyclists are surprised I'm even in my 40s, but the way I see it I need to prep my body to be strong going into my 50s and 60s. I see too many older people trying to get back into shape and it's definitely a harder task when you didn't start early on.

jonathanf2

Part of me wants to stop looking at my Strava! It makes every segment feel like you have to put 100%, when in reality there are only some key sections which are worthy for trying your best. I think I'll try easing more into my rides and save energy for those areas that would require max effort. I'm also quite consistent with my workout routine, but definitely trying to push max effort into every session is probably what's degrading my performance. Great article by the way!

PeteHski

Think of the bright side. Had you done everything perfectly 10-20 years ago, you definitely wouldn't be producing any PBs today
Seriously though younger guys can get away with sub-standard nutrition, poor sleep etc. and still produce decent results (although obviously not reaching their full potential). It just gets progressively harder as you get older. You are in a good position now in your 40s and still training hard. Just keep reading and learning as you go along. I didn't think anything of turning 50 and my fitness has been gradually improving since my early 40s when I wasn't really training with much thought or purpose. I've been consistently fit for most of my life (mainly due to my interest in sports), with the odd minor lapse along the way. But now I really work at it to maintain a respectable fitness level.

Those younger cyclists who are surprised that you are in your 40s have fallen for the mistake of "normalising" the expected ageing process. They've all seen how "normal" people are supposed to age from observing previous generations - who mostly gave up with any kind of focused fitness regime beyond their 30s and had totally given up by 50. My father was a very competitive tennis player in his 20s (national level) but, like most of his generation, by 50 he was sedentary, overweight and struggling with the usual western lifestyle ageing conditions. Finally died of a heart attack at 79. I'm not particularly aiming to live to 100. For me it's the quality of life that counts in the later decades.

Carbonfiberboy 

When I was in my 50s, I rode for about an hour and then hit the gym for an hour twice a week. One could probably do that 3X week profitably. I didn't train like a powerlifter, more like a bodybuilder. I did the usual sets and reps with 1' rests between sets. I didn't think that riding first hurt my results in the gym - different energy systems and ranges of motion. I also rode on most non-gym days.

You only want to go hard on the bike maybe 3X a week, moderate the other days. You could try going moderate on the gym days. I'd go moderate before on one day, hard on the other.

Carbonfiberboy 

On my single, I always pedal OOS the same way: drops, toes pointed, butt going up and down as little as I can. So it's never body weight really, it's muscle force. Bouncing up and down seems to waste energy and encourage too slow a stroke. I modify my CG and bar push/pull depending on incline and how hard I want to go, from energetic cruise to sprint. IMO the big difference between doing what you're describing and squats or deadlifts is the rate of force development. I think one has to do both to get the best results: strength and fiber recruitment in the gym, then force development on the bike.

Daniel4

BBC program called "Trust me. I'm a doctor" with host Michael Mosley says that cyclists have lower bone density (compared to gymnasts and cricket players) due to it being a low impact activity.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/art...trongest-bones

So keep up the weight training.

PeteHski

Of course, but that's not really the issue here. It's more a question of how you balance hard cycling with heavy weight lifting.

wolfchild

IME it's difficult to find a balance between heavy lifting and cycling at the same time....I've done it before for a few years, so I know it can be done but you will need to accept compromises in both activities and expect to be in a recovery mode everyday. You will need to schedule regular rest days and easy days into your routine. The older you get the longer it takes to recover.. The biggest issue here is intensity and frequency. of your workouts. It's unrealistic to expect to go hard 6 days per week and still make full recovery. The other issue is that power lifting is anaerobic while cycling is mostly aerobic and endurance. Different energy systems at work. My advice is to focus and prioritize whichever activity is more important to you and use the other activity just to supplement your routine. If you focus mostly on cycling it will take away some of your powerlifting performance, if you focus mostly on power lifting it will take away some of your endurance on the bike, so just decide which is more important to you and do that,

jonathanf2

Today I went cycling with a buddy and purposely kept intensity and heart rate down for the majority of the ride. When we reached the hill climb, I also took it easy making sure to keep my BPM at a lower level than usual. Also at the start of the ride there were some other cyclists who gunned it up the climb, with a good 5-10 minute lead. I also opted to keep in my big chainring not once dropping into my small during the ride. Interestingly enough this slow, but steady style of riding paid off!

The other riders who were fast to start looked gassed out near the top summit checkpoint, while the slow and steady style had conserved most my energy. I decided to go up a few gears, switched to out of saddle climbing and charged the top. I ended up passing all the riders who had climbed ahead of me.

Now I'm a bit dumbfounded! It feels like I've been riding the wrong way this whole time. Who'd think a slow and easy start would actually make me faster where it counts! I also tried a few of the sprinting tips mentioned in this thread and PR'ed a few of the hill climb segments!

Thanks for all the advice so far!

qwaalodge

On the gym, I push with one leg twice my body weight with the machine (not free weight) and I feel the same thing on the bike with the right steepness of the climb and gear ratio (high gear on short, steep climb). I only do the strength intervals on short steep climbs on high gear, very low cadence.

If I fail my warm up routine (bike), I'll have a painful lower back. I get the same problem when doing deadlifts without warm up.

On the bike, I do it with hip angle a bit more open than I normally do, body shifted forward more and hands on the hoods, better leverage and injury avoidance for the core muscles.

qwaalodge

It's called "pacing". You start slow and progressively ramp up the effort during a climb. The beginning effort is a form of warm-up because climbing puts more strain on the legs. Even if you think you have warmed up properly already. You'll need to do it again at the beginning of a climb (start slow!)

Carbonfiberboy 

My first ever competitive group ride was a 200k, not a brevet, just a route we rode. I'd only ridden alone. I thought that the most efficient way to go about it was to hold a steady HR the whole way. After about 30 miles, I realized that the people I was passing on the flat were passing me on the hills and gradually tiring and dropping me. So I started riding like they did and sure enough it was faster. It's the issue that power required on the flat goes up as the cube of the speed. Of course that's only an issue on the flat because climbing speed is so slow for us amateurs that wind resistance is a minor part of one's effort.

So one goes moderate on the flat and then as hard as one's conditioning allows on the climbs. That's how one TTs a long course. I'd never ridden that hard, ever. After about 110k we had a lunch stop, during which I cramped so bad I slid off my chair under the table. I did the rest of the ride sole, far off the back. The happy ending is that I made some friends on that ride and still ride with what remains of those same riders. The only way to figure that out exactly is to ride with other people and see what works best.

jonathanf2

I do this particular climb 2-3 times a week. So I've gotten to know the steep sections and where to take it easy. Though I always charged the climb with not much thought to my pacing. This time around I purposely kept my cadence and heart rate at a much lower level than usual. I also took it easy on the steep segments and picked up pace in flatter segments. Looking at my ride data, on a zone 1-5 BPM scale I spent most of the ride at zone 2-3 and only elevating my heart rate at the last climb sections before the top. I spent the majority of the ride like that and by doing so, I didn't even have to rely dropping into low gear. I only elevated my heart rate so I could sprint the final sections of the climb.

My buddy who rode with me commented that he wants to start barbell squatting after seeing me ride like that!

PeteHski

It's worth noting that this is the exact opposite of the fastest strategy to climb a hill. The fastest way is to go harder on the steeper sections and easier on the flatter sections. I'm talking about power rather than pace, which will still be faster on the flatter sections. Also don't fall into the trap of thinking that a lower gear automatically means less power. You will often find that you actually put out more power in a lower gear at a more efficient cadence. It often feels like less power just because the pedal force is lower, but Power = force x cadence.

But anyway, it sounds like your better overall pacing strategy made a big difference. There's nothing worse than going too hard at the foot of a climb only to get passed and dropped near the top. Another strategy is to power over the top of a climb and keep on sprinting into the first part of the descent when most people will back right off at the top and then coast over the summit. You can pull out large gaps instantly like this!