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Excessive hydration

Old 03-15-23, 11:50 AM
  #26  
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There's another reason to put salt in your drink: it helps transport liquid out of your gut and into your bloodstream. Riding with a belly full of plain water is not beneficial, and it can be unpleasant.

I make up my own drink mix powder, which is a simplified version of the World Health Organization's Oral rehydration salts. It has only the stuff you need (sugar, salt, flavoring), and it's much cheaper than any commercial drink mix.

Terry's not fancy drink mix:
  • glucose/dextrose - 400 g
  • salt - 54 g
  • lemon crystals - 38 g
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Old 03-15-23, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse
There's another reason to put salt in your drink: it helps transport liquid out of your gut and into your bloodstream.
Yep. Same for glucose.
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Old 03-15-23, 03:55 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse
There's another reason to put salt in your drink: it helps transport liquid out of your gut and into your bloodstream. Riding with a belly full of plain water is not beneficial, and it can be unpleasant.

I make up my own drink mix powder, which is a simplified version of the World Health Organization's Oral rehydration salts. It has only the stuff you need (sugar, salt, flavoring), and it's much cheaper than any commercial drink mix.

Terry's not fancy drink mix:
  • glucose/dextrose - 400 g
  • salt - 54 g
  • lemon crystals - 38 g
?? You left out the water quantity. If I use any electrolytes at all, it's usually one regular Endurolyte cap per hour, so 60mg sodium/hour. That's plenty for normal temps. In hot weather, I'll take 2 caps/hr. But like I say, in the PNW I normally don't need any electrolytes. Our bodies do a great job of taking care of that for us. The motto is "less is more." Sloshy belly comes from too much of something. Pure water makes it go away, which is why I always have that with me. Plain water.
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Old 03-16-23, 10:31 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
?? You left out the water quantity.
One or two small scoops (10-20 g) in a full size bottle (650-700 ml).

One scoop is usually fine, two scoops for very hot days.
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Old 03-21-23, 07:07 AM
  #30  
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1 bottle per hour in the summer - max? Not for me.

I sweat out buckets...

I drink at will, whenever I feel thirsty - typically the water is going out faster than it goes in.

I carry two of the biggest water bottles I can fit on my bike - 32oz, on long rides one will be 50/50 water and sports drink mix. The large water bottle is good for an hour max, and the 50/50 mix 2 hours max.

So in the heat of the summer I'm drinking 45-55oz per hour min. I lose water weight and don't have to pee much, and my pee is darker at the end of the ride.
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Old 03-21-23, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Jughed
1 bottle per hour in the summer - max? Not for me.

I sweat out buckets...

I drink at will, whenever I feel thirsty - typically the water is going out faster than it goes in.

I carry two of the biggest water bottles I can fit on my bike - 32oz, on long rides one will be 50/50 water and sports drink mix. The large water bottle is good for an hour max, and the 50/50 mix 2 hours max.

So in the heat of the summer I'm drinking 45-55oz per hour min. I lose water weight and don't have to pee much, and my pee is darker at the end of the ride.
That is a very high fluid intake. The often cited maximum fluid uptake rate for an adult is about 1 liter per hour (38 fluid ounces).
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Old 03-21-23, 10:12 PM
  #32  
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Perhaps it's possible to train to absorb water better, or perhaps some people can absorb it faster than me. But my gut responds unpleasantly when I try to drink more than about a quart per hour.
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Old 03-22-23, 10:21 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by pdlamb
Perhaps it's possible to train to absorb water better, or perhaps some people can absorb it faster than me. But my gut responds unpleasantly when I try to drink more than about a quart per hour.
Yes, it is possible. Some endurance athletes work on that specifically. I've never tried, no point to that in the PNW, except for very occasional events which happen during heat waves, but they aren't races and they're rare. I've done rides where I drank my limit, about a liter per hour, and found it not nearly enough. My solution to that is to stop somewhere there's shade and water and rest and drink until my HR drops somewhat and I pee. Which means I try to choose routes in the heat which have those amenities. Otherwise one rather needs a support vehicle.

I had one scary ride in very dry hot country where I ran out of water and had to ride about an hour with dry forearms to water and shelter. Close one. I emptied my 70 oz. Camelbak in the next 25 miles climbing a pass, water at the top. IIRC I took 2 Endurolytes an hour on that one. I'm not a salty sweater - I never stain my shorts. Some folks sure do. I have a riding buddy like that. Riding behind him in the sun I once thought it was raining. I've been told that a lower salt diet, which I have, decreases one's need for salt when riding. It's my practice to separate my water, food, and electrolytes so I can change their balance depending on conditions. I drink to thirst, so the hotter it is, the thirstier I need to be.
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Old 03-23-23, 07:03 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
Yes, it is possible. Some endurance athletes work on that specifically. I've never tried, no point to that in the PNW, except for very occasional events which happen during heat waves, but they aren't races and they're rare. I've done rides where I drank my limit, about a liter per hour, and found it not nearly enough. My solution to that is to stop somewhere there's shade and water and rest and drink until my HR drops somewhat and I pee. Which means I try to choose routes in the heat which have those amenities. Otherwise one rather needs a support vehicle.

I had one scary ride in very dry hot country where I ran out of water and had to ride about an hour with dry forearms to water and shelter. Close one. I emptied my 70 oz. Camelbak in the next 25 miles climbing a pass, water at the top. IIRC I took 2 Endurolytes an hour on that one. I'm not a salty sweater - I never stain my shorts. Some folks sure do. I have a riding buddy like that. Riding behind him in the sun I once thought it was raining. I've been told that a lower salt diet, which I have, decreases one's need for salt when riding. It's my practice to separate my water, food, and electrolytes so I can change their balance depending on conditions. I drink to thirst, so the hotter it is, the thirstier I need to be.
I am finding that this is not true (at least for me). Over the last few years, Frau Toad has been using less salt in our cooking at home and we go out a lot less since 2020. I've been having issues with long rides (6+ hour) ... 'issues' include an overnight at the hospital on IVs. This year I've started adding more sodium into my diet & on-rides; I'm seeing a great benefit to my endurance (& much reduced need to pee). It's still the depths of winter in Minneapolis, so my only good test so far are long Zwift rides and that one day last month I rode up to the Mauna Kea Visitor's Center.

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Old 03-23-23, 08:48 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad
I am finding that this is not true (at least for me). Over the last few years, Frau Toad has been using less salt in our cooking at home and we go out a lot less since 2020. I've been having issues with long rides (6+ hour) ... 'issues' include an overnight at the hospital on IVs. This year I've started adding more sodium into my diet & on-rides; I'm seeing a great benefit to my endurance (& much reduced need to pee). It's still the depths of winter in Minneapolis, so my only good test so far are long Zwift rides and that one day last month I rode up to the Mauna Kea Visitor's Center.
Note that he didn't say a low salt diet eliminated the need for salts/electrolytes. His operative word was decreases.

You don't offer any suggestions of why your 6 hour ride put you in the hospital attached to IV's. I'll just imagine that you didn't drink enough water regardless of the amount of electrolytes you did or didn't get. So quite possibly hypernatremia and not hyponatremia put you in there.
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Old 03-23-23, 09:12 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Iride01
Note that he didn't say a low salt diet eliminated the need for salts/electrolytes. His operative word was decreases.

You don't offer any suggestions of why your 6 hour ride put you in the hospital attached to IV's. I'll just imagine that you didn't drink enough water regardless of the amount of electrolytes you did or didn't get. So quite possibly hypernatremia and not hyponatremia put you in there.
I read and totally understood the post. IME there is not a decreased need for sodium while biking when you have a low sodium daily diet. Please take the time to scroll up to post 14 (& watch the linked video).

The ride that landed my in the hospital was 12 hours in my basement while vEversting. My issue had nothing to do with access to fluids, I drink a 26 oz bottle an hour. My issue was low sodium. At the time, my daily diet was low sodium, and I was using minimal electrolyte/sodium mix while riding. With hindsight, it's very clear that my body needs more sodium to support the endurance rides I enjoy. But in today's world with nearly everyone needing less salt in there diet, it's easy to fall into the hole I got into ... and that's why I post my story here, to help others avoid spending the night hooked up to IVs because they are salty sweater on a low sodium diet.

Note: your body can not produce sodium, and every person's sweat is unique ... both the amount of fluid you lose to sweat, and the amount of sodium in your sweat. You need to find what amount of sodium works for your body's needs.

Last edited by Hypno Toad; 03-23-23 at 09:16 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 03-23-23, 09:23 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad
I am finding that this is not true (at least for me). Over the last few years, Frau Toad has been using less salt in our cooking at home and we go out a lot less since 2020. I've been having issues with long rides (6+ hour) ... 'issues' include an overnight at the hospital on IVs. This year I've started adding more sodium into my diet & on-rides; I'm seeing a great benefit to my endurance (& much reduced need to pee). It's still the depths of winter in Minneapolis, so my only good test so far are long Zwift rides and that one day last month I rode up to the Mauna Kea Visitor's Center.
Thanks. I should have defined what I meant by "lower salt diet". I meant compared with the usual American diet. We've been eating a more-or-less Med diet for 50 years, natural foods, almost nothing packaged, although I do occasionally make chilaquiles for breakfast using TJ's Corn Dippers.

According to the latest salt recommendations out there, we should aim for 4-5 grams of salt/day and 4g is about 3/4 t. That's a bit difficult to do because we don't know the sodium contents of everything we eat. But when we make dinner, we add 1/4t of salt per serving. When I make hot cereal for breakfast, I add 1/4t to the pot. We salt our eggs, but otherwise don't have a salt shaker on the table. We use soy sauce on stir fries, that sort of thing. We add 1t of salt per loaf of bread - we make all our own bread. We don't walk around with a bottle of water in our hands, just aren't that thirsty. Works for us, but like I say, everyone's different and we live in the PNW. We ride a lot indoors in winter, but only heat our riding area to 58. Research says that optimal riding temperature is 55. but that's a bit cool for my wife. At 58 I have to use a fan.
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Old 03-23-23, 10:27 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
Thanks. I should have defined what I meant by "lower salt diet". I meant compared with the usual American diet. We've been eating a more-or-less Med diet for 50 years, natural foods, almost nothing packaged, although I do occasionally make chilaquiles for breakfast using TJ's Corn Dippers.

According to the latest salt recommendations out there, we should aim for 4-5 grams of salt/day and 4g is about 3/4 t. That's a bit difficult to do because we don't know the sodium contents of everything we eat. But when we make dinner, we add 1/4t of salt per serving. When I make hot cereal for breakfast, I add 1/4t to the pot. We salt our eggs, but otherwise don't have a salt shaker on the table. We use soy sauce on stir fries, that sort of thing. We add 1t of salt per loaf of bread - we make all our own bread. We don't walk around with a bottle of water in our hands, just aren't that thirsty. Works for us, but like I say, everyone's different and we live in the PNW. We ride a lot indoors in winter, but only heat our riding area to 58. Research says that optimal riding temperature is 55. but that's a bit cool for my wife. At 58 I have to use a fan.
It sounds like we have a very similar diets! And I'm a fan, in general.

I've run into issues with long rides when temps get past the mid-80s F (30+ c); and so many rides around Minnesota are in the summer heat with the full impact of corn sweat. I've stopped doing long rides in summer heat, but I'm excited to test the water again this summer with a renewed understanding of my body's need for sodium.
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Old 05-08-23, 06:23 AM
  #39  
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On hot days where I really sweat on the climbs, I drink 750ml / hour plus extra every time I stop at a water fountain to refill (which I plan ahead to be every two hours given I have two bottles, but sometimes I have to stop earlier to fill up the first bottle if there is no opportunity around the 2-hour mark).

When I sweat less I drink less. So you have to find what works for you. The 1 bottle per hour plus extra is what I need on hot days - I was starting to feel nauseous at the end of long, hot rides which went away not with eating but drinking a ton. Then I started drinking extra at fountain stops and I do not get that nauseous feeling nearly as much anymore as I used to. I also aim to be well hydrated before rides, like clear to cloudy urine, and then I try to pee just before riding. Sometimes I won't have to stop to pee at all (like last weekend on a 4 hour ride, 5 hour total time when it wasn't even that hot) sometimes I have to stop even a couple times. But I rather stop to pee on a downhill than drink too little.

Since you seem to be having to pee too much, try drinking less. See what that does to your peeing needs and what it does to your body.
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Old 05-15-23, 07:24 AM
  #40  
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I always thought that more you drink - more you sweat during the loads. I tried to experiment. If I drink a lot - I sweat a lot still urinate like once in several hours (5 for being precise to some real days). It's around 800-900 ml per hour, my average speed is 19kmh by tracker, some rest stops and overall rides about 55-65km. I tried with going low on water to sweat less and sometime there is no place to buy water - I think in general it affected only my knees. I'm not sure. I heard that you need to have good water intake so knee lubricant will be sufficient for bike rides, I'm not sure how true is this. I think my usual intake is around 600-700 per hour on hot days and actually ...I don't feel it's enough but otherwise I will simply ran out of water at some point cause I ride a lot of wild places on MTB with no shops. So in the end I drink when I'm thirsty but I try to control myself to do it at least consistently without huge dry periods.
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