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Optavia weight loss - any known risks?

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Optavia weight loss - any known risks?

Old 03-30-23, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Steamer View Post
Fat vs. CHO utilization varies wildly from person to person. It's both training and diet related, not just intensity related.

Alan Couzens has lots of real world data on this.

Here are some good reads on this topic from AC:

https://www.alancouzens.com/blog/fatburning_test_2.html
https://www.alancouzens.com/blog/imp..._burning1.html
https://alancouzens.com/blog/improvi..._burning2.html

I think most people would argue that if you are involved in endurance events lasting more than 2-3 hours, it's of great benefit to be as much of a fat burner as possible. Nobody (well, not many people) is saying to not consume CHO on the bike, it's just that keeping up with taking in CHO to compensate for the CHO that is burned can be difficult. And the longer the event, more difficult it is. You can only store so much, and your gut can only process so much.

It all comes down to having a healthy metabolism. If your body can use fat as fuel, it's healthy. Not only does this have athletic performance benefits, but it can prevent T2D, and if you have it, reverse it. T2D is not a permanent condition. Undo what caused it and your body will heal. I should note that having defective aerobic metabolic machinery is starting to be implicated in all sorts of other diseases too - cancer, dementia....

Low carb diet and lots of zone 2 cycling (at or below LT1) is the basic prescription.
I meet few T2's that think the pretty much the exact same way about it as I do...
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Old 04-05-23, 07:18 PM
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I used Optavia to lose 40 lbs last year, I was very active during the 'diet' so added calories to compensate, great program, It works, if you are riding a lot you will need to increase calories accordingly. Its a big\t expensive, but makes it very handy, and my dr. was very happy with my bloodwork during the weight loss period
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Old 04-06-23, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
I have a friend telling me about his Optavia weight loss plan, and it sounds interesting. I asked the Optavia guy about yoga and aerobic exercise, and they do not encourage either. Can this be right? The plan is based on fat-burning. Is it healthy to force the body into fat burning? You eat at a very low calorie level to consume glycogen, then your body starts consuming fat. No mention of using exercise to consume glycogen.

It seems odd, but it seems to work.

Is it safe and not risky?
I've never head about this diet, but this part is complete BS.
You eat at a very low calorie level to consume glycogen, then your body starts consuming fat.
As others have posted here, you burn fat at low intensities regardless of whether you're glycogen depleted or not.
Take this into consideration when determining how much you trust this diet and remember how all diets ultimately work:
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Old 04-06-23, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
I've never head about this diet, but this part is complete BS.

As others have posted here, you burn fat at low intensities regardless of whether you're glycogen depleted or not.
Take this into consideration when determining how much you trust this diet and remember how all diets ultimately work:
They forgot the pickle diet. That works by pickles.
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Old 04-14-23, 05:01 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
I've never head about this diet, but this part is complete BS.

As others have posted here, you burn fat at low intensities regardless of whether you're glycogen depleted or not.
Take this into consideration when determining how much you trust this diet and remember how all diets ultimately work:
Yeah - not true for everyone.

If I ate the same amount of carb rich calories as I do fat and protein rich - I blow up like a balloon.

And not for nuttin - I typically eat 2x per day, under 2000 calories of high quality whole/real foods, ride 100-150 miles per week ++ And I don't eat on my rides, and only drink water 95% of the time. No sugars, goo's, gels... and no sugar at all in my diet. Zero sugar for that matter. No alcohol, no juice - water, meat, protein and veggies. Thats it.

I am "supposed" to eat 3000+ calories per day to maintain my body weight @ my level of exercise. I am "supposed" to eat 2700 calories per day to lose 1/2# per week.

5'11" @ 192#'s and holding fast. I can gain weight at will. Any time any where - I can gain crazy amounts of weight in a hurry. Losing a pound is a knock down drag out fight.
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Old 04-14-23, 05:23 AM
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Creating a calorie deficit is the way to lose weight but it is NOT the whole story.
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Old 04-14-23, 05:42 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Jughed View Post
Yeah - not true for everyone.

If I ate the same amount of carb rich calories as I do fat and protein rich - I blow up like a balloon.

And not for nuttin - I typically eat 2x per day, under 2000 calories of high quality whole/real foods, ride 100-150 miles per week ++ And I don't eat on my rides, and only drink water 95% of the time. No sugars, goo's, gels... and no sugar at all in my diet. Zero sugar for that matter. No alcohol, no juice - water, meat, protein and veggies. Thats it.

I am "supposed" to eat 3000+ calories per day to maintain my body weight @ my level of exercise. I am "supposed" to eat 2700 calories per day to lose 1/2# per week.

5'11" @ 192#'s and holding fast. I can gain weight at will. Any time any where - I can gain crazy amounts of weight in a hurry. Losing a pound is a knock down drag out fight.
Yeah, just looking at calories in / calories out ignores the hormonal effect that different foods can have. These effects are very significant for many people. Reducing the discussion of weight loss to one of simple thermodyamics is a little like saying my car doesn't work because it's broken. It's obvious, and not very useful.
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Old 04-14-23, 07:11 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Jughed View Post
Yeah - not true for everyone.

If I ate the same amount of carb rich calories as I do fat and protein rich - I blow up like a balloon.

And not for nuttin - I typically eat 2x per day, under 2000 calories of high quality whole/real foods, ride 100-150 miles per week ++ And I don't eat on my rides, and only drink water 95% of the time. No sugars, goo's, gels... and no sugar at all in my diet. Zero sugar for that matter. No alcohol, no juice - water, meat, protein and veggies. Thats it.

I am "supposed" to eat 3000+ calories per day to maintain my body weight @ my level of exercise. I am "supposed" to eat 2700 calories per day to lose 1/2# per week.

5'11" @ 192#'s and holding fast. I can gain weight at will. Any time any where - I can gain crazy amounts of weight in a hurry. Losing a pound is a knock down drag out fight.
Actually it is true for everyone. Hormones or whatever don't magically turn people into perpetual motion machines.
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Old 04-14-23, 08:08 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
Actually it is true for everyone. Hormones or whatever don't magically turn people into perpetual motion machines.

Nope.

Insulin resistance, excess insulin in the system = fat storage. Fat storage at normal/maintenance calorie levels, even with caloric restriction, fat storage occurs. More fat storage = higher levels of insulin resistance which equals more fat storage and more insulin resistance... and so on and so on. And once insulin resistance overcomes the ability for the body to process sugar/carbs - more fat storage.

Not only do some people require less calories to lose weight because of hormones, they also require less types of certain foods.

I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt- If I keep calories the same but switch diet type, increase carb intake - I will gain weight at a significant rate.
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Old 04-14-23, 08:38 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Jughed View Post
Nope.

Insulin resistance, excess insulin in the system = fat storage. Fat storage at normal/maintenance calorie levels, even with caloric restriction, fat storage occurs. More fat storage = higher levels of insulin resistance which equals more fat storage and more insulin resistance... and so on and so on. And once insulin resistance overcomes the ability for the body to process sugar/carbs - more fat storage.

Not only do some people require less calories to lose weight because of hormones, they also require less types of certain foods.

I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt- If I keep calories the same but switch diet type, increase carb intake - I will gain weight at a significant rate.
Your argument is about as scientifically valid as claiming the earth is flat. Hormones can have an impact on one's metabolism which affects calories out. They can also affect hunger which changes calories in. But no amount of insulin will make you get fat on a caloric deficit. Your body cannot store something that isn't there. This isn't Star Trek and you are not a replicator. The laws of thermodynamics still apply when you eat carbs.
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Old 04-14-23, 09:05 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
Your argument is about as scientifically valid as claiming the earth is flat. Hormones can have an impact on one's metabolism which affects calories out. They can also affect hunger which changes calories in. But no amount of insulin will make you get fat on a caloric deficit. Your body cannot store something that isn't there. This isn't Star Trek and you are not a replicator. The laws of thermodynamics still apply when you eat carbs.
The body absolutely stores foods it can't process.

I am flat telling you that myself, along with 10's of millions of other insulin resistant diabetics, pre diabetics, pre pre diabetics... don't process what would be considered "normal" levels of sugars and carbs, and we store them as fat. Calories don't matter when you can't process or use the calories consumed. So, they become excess calories - even in a caloric deficit.

Diabetics treated with insulin - well they gain weight in most cases. Gain weight with no other changes. Why? Excess insulin in the system

Thermodynamics - the car engine burns the fuel delivered from the injection system - if there is enough air present to support combustion. If not, the fuel gets stored in the oil pan or goes out the exhaust pipe. Same for me and many others, except the fuel doesn't go out the exhaust pipe. The body can be out of tune, have misfires or issues with the O2 sensor just like an engine.

Your argument may make sense in a perfectly functioning body... but that's not reality.

First excerpt from doctor google, and my doctor agrees, and the results I see support what the medical community knows.
"f your cells become too resistant to insulin, it can result in elevated blood sugar levels, which can lead to weight gain, prediabetes and type 2 diabetes. Losing weight with insulin resistance is more difficult because the body stores excess blood sugar as fat."

And I am only addressing one metabolic condition. There are many other metabolic conditions that lead to the same results.

Again, I maintain 190#'s + on a 2k calorie per day, very strict, very clean diet. And my daily cycling calories burned range from 5-900+ - power meter and hear rate data used to calculate calories burned - not 100% accurate. And - 95+% of my cycling is fueled by fat. I don't consume carbs...

So again, for the last time, I will say with a high level of confidence:
Nope.
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Old 04-14-23, 09:13 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
Your argument is about as scientifically valid as claiming the earth is flat. Hormones can have an impact on one's metabolism which affects calories out. They can also affect hunger which changes calories in. But no amount of insulin will make you get fat on a caloric deficit. Your body cannot store something that isn't there. This isn't Star Trek and you are not a replicator. The laws of thermodynamics still apply when you eat carbs.
Eat less is always the mantra of sugar consumers who give weight loss advice. You may be technically correct but as already stated there's a lot more to weight loss than fewer calories in than out if you want to be successful in losing weight. Telling someone who wants to lose weight to eat fewer calories is about as useful as telling someone seeking cycling training advice to ride more. What you eat and when you eat is just as important as how much you eat to anyone with a weight problem.
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Old 04-14-23, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by RH Clark View Post
Eat less is always the mantra of sugar consumers who give weight loss advice. You may be technically correct but as already stated there's a lot more to weight loss than fewer calories in than out if you want to be successful in losing weight. Telling someone who wants to lose weight to eat fewer calories is about as useful as telling someone seeking cycling training advice to ride more. What you eat and when you eat is just as important as how much you eat to anyone with a weight problem.
I am technically correct.

But don't put words in my mouth. I certainly didn't suggest that just eating fewer calories is the only advice needed. I simply pointed out that creating a caloric deficit is how EVERY diet ultimately works. Every single one is ultimately a method to get you to eat less without it feeling so miserable.

Your last sentence is also wrong. How much you eat is, by far, the most important factor when it comes to losing weight.
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Old 04-14-23, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Jughed View Post
The body absolutely stores foods it can't process.

I am flat telling you that myself, along with 10's of millions of other insulin resistant diabetics, pre diabetics, pre pre diabetics... don't process what would be considered "normal" levels of sugars and carbs, and we store them as fat. Calories don't matter when you can't process or use the calories consumed. So, they become excess calories - even in a caloric deficit.

Diabetics treated with insulin - well they gain weight in most cases. Gain weight with no other changes. Why? Excess insulin in the system

Thermodynamics - the car engine burns the fuel delivered from the injection system - if there is enough air present to support combustion. If not, the fuel gets stored in the oil pan or goes out the exhaust pipe. Same for me and many others, except the fuel doesn't go out the exhaust pipe. The body can be out of tune, have misfires or issues with the O2 sensor just like an engine.

Your argument may make sense in a perfectly functioning body... but that's not reality.

First excerpt from doctor google, and my doctor agrees, and the results I see support what the medical community knows.
"f your cells become too resistant to insulin, it can result in elevated blood sugar levels, which can lead to weight gain, prediabetes and type 2 diabetes. Losing weight with insulin resistance is more difficult because the body stores excess blood sugar as fat."

And I am only addressing one metabolic condition. There are many other metabolic conditions that lead to the same results.

Again, I maintain 190#'s + on a 2k calorie per day, very strict, very clean diet. And my daily cycling calories burned range from 5-900+ - power meter and hear rate data used to calculate calories burned - not 100% accurate. And - 95+% of my cycling is fueled by fat. I don't consume carbs...

So again, for the last time, I will say with a high level of confidence:
Nope.
Stopped reading after the 2nd paragraph. This is to ridiculous to spend time discussing.
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Old 04-14-23, 05:01 PM
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My wife wanted to do it, so I did it for 1 month, she did it for two. Recommending that one shouldn't exercise is asinine. Did I lose weight, of course. Transitioning back to real life is not easy and staying on that diet is not possible, at least for me. The real kicker is that my wife literally started losing her hair, so she stopped, and it took her almost a year to get it back. After some digging she found out she's not alone, but the people behind the diet to to great lengths to hide anything negative.
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Old 04-15-23, 06:56 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
I am technically correct.

But don't put words in my mouth. I certainly didn't suggest that just eating fewer calories is the only advice needed. I simply pointed out that creating a caloric deficit is how EVERY diet ultimately works. Every single one is ultimately a method to get you to eat less without it feeling so miserable.

Your last sentence is also wrong. How much you eat is, by far, the most important factor when it comes to losing weight.
How many calories you consume is the most important factor, but it is scientifically proven that certain foods will drive you harder to consume more calories.
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Old 04-18-23, 08:30 PM
  #42  
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Ok, so I have been on it for about 5 weeks now, and have lost about 15 0r 16. I don't know if I can keep this up for long enough to get into the 160's, which is just a theoretical taget, there's no strong reasoning behind it, for me. My idea has always been to use the 5+1 to achieve some weight loss, then move back into a routine which is more sustainable in the home. So I think my time in 5+1 is limited. There is a difference in my yoga performance even now. Bike-wise I want to start something like mostly sriding near the conversational limit until I get it up to maybe an hour a day. If I'm on Optavia, they say just add in a little more protein, but I don't know how much and I want to move back to real food anyway. So, now I'm thinking up a plan to do that. The counseled plan from Mayo Clinic looks good, but I have to take a close look. Good thing the weather is improving!

I'm turning 70 this summer, and I don't want to make any quick changes.

I'm not trying to think through the idea of how the Opt works - what they said to me sounds reasonable enough, that your body burns stored fat when it is not taking in new carbs in sufficient amounts. But I'm certain they have not opened up about everything.
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Old 04-19-23, 12:03 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
Ok, so I have been on it for about 5 weeks now, and have lost about 15 0r 16. I don't know if I can keep this up for long enough to get into the 160's, which is just a theoretical taget, there's no strong reasoning behind it, for me. My idea has always been to use the 5+1 to achieve some weight loss, then move back into a routine which is more sustainable in the home. So I think my time in 5+1 is limited. There is a difference in my yoga performance even now. Bike-wise I want to start something like mostly sriding near the conversational limit until I get it up to maybe an hour a day. If I'm on Optavia, they say just add in a little more protein, but I don't know how much and I want to move back to real food anyway. So, now I'm thinking up a plan to do that. The counseled plan from Mayo Clinic looks good, but I have to take a close look. Good thing the weather is improving!

I'm turning 70 this summer, and I don't want to make any quick changes.

I'm not trying to think through the idea of how the Opt works - what they said to me sounds reasonable enough, that your body burns stored fat when it is not taking in new carbs in sufficient amounts. But I'm certain they have not opened up about everything.
16 lbs of fat loss would equal a deficit of 56,000 Calories. If that was over 5 weeks, that's a deficit of 1600 Calories per day.

That's a huge deficit! I would be extremely wary of any program that prescribes that much Calorie restriction.
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Old 04-19-23, 02:12 PM
  #44  
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I'm not sure why people say they were encouraged not to exercise, I was told not to exercise for 2 weeks while my body adjusted, then I exercised like crazy..

I won't say I was perfect on diet, I literally ate ice cream every night (an addiction I think), but lost weight at a rapid pace, then slowed to 2-3 lbs a month.

I do not sell Optavia, but do believe in it, the diet keeps you eating a healthy balance and my Dr. said the blood work looks great,,,not defending the diet but I think its easy to hear one thing from one person and believe it to be 'absolutely'. again I didn't follow it perfectly but loved the resultsl
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Old 04-20-23, 04:14 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
Ok, so I have been on it for about 5 weeks now, and have lost about 15 0r 16. I don't know if I can keep this up for long enough to get into the 160's, which is just a theoretical taget, there's no strong reasoning behind it, for me. My idea has always been to use the 5+1 to achieve some weight loss, then move back into a routine which is more sustainable in the home. So I think my time in 5+1 is limited. There is a difference in my yoga performance even now. Bike-wise I want to start something like mostly sriding near the conversational limit until I get it up to maybe an hour a day. If I'm on Optavia, they say just add in a little more protein, but I don't know how much and I want to move back to real food anyway. So, now I'm thinking up a plan to do that. The counseled plan from Mayo Clinic looks good, but I have to take a close look. Good thing the weather is improving!

I'm turning 70 this summer, and I don't want to make any quick changes.

I'm not trying to think through the idea of how the Opt works - what they said to me sounds reasonable enough, that your body burns stored fat when it is not taking in new carbs in sufficient amounts. But I'm certain they have not opened up about everything.
Sounds like a typical crash-diet to me. Unsustainable and likely to result in a bounce-back when you eventually fold. I know that sounds very negative, but I've seen it happen enough times to predict the outcome. But at least you've figured out that moving back to real food is the real long-term solution. Eat healthy and monitor your calories in/out (which is easy enough to do on a relative basis using a fitness tracker and food app).
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Old 04-20-23, 05:24 AM
  #46  
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3-4#/week is a lot

Backpacking 20-25 miles per day or cycling touring 80-100 miles per day for 4-5 weeks will do it or should say has done it for me.

Subcutaneous fat loss is most effective at about 25% of VO2 max. Touring pace all day does that. (If you don't stuff yer face)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5766985/
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Old 04-20-23, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
Subcutaneous fat loss is most effective at about 25% of VO2 max. Touring pace all day does that. (If you don't stuff yer face)
25% of VO2max seems quite low for maximal fat oxidation. The reported range is typically 45-65% of VO2max.
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Old 04-20-23, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Sounds like a typical crash-diet to me. Unsustainable and likely to result in a bounce-back when you eventually fold. I know that sounds very negative, but I've seen it happen enough times to predict the outcome. But at least you've figured out that moving back to real food is the real long-term solution. Eat healthy and monitor your calories in/out (which is easy enough to do on a relative basis using a fitness tracker and food app).
Actually, moving back to real food was always my plan but I need to do it in a way that has some discipline, because I am the ultimate re-binger!
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Old 04-20-23, 09:04 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by andydallas View Post
I'm not sure why people say they were encouraged not to exercise, I was told not to exercise for 2 weeks while my body adjusted, then I exercised like crazy..

I won't say I was perfect on diet, I literally ate ice cream every night (an addiction I think), but lost weight at a rapid pace, then slowed to 2-3 lbs a month.

I do not sell Optavia, but do believe in it, the diet keeps you eating a healthy balance and my Dr. said the blood work looks great,,,not defending the diet but I think its easy to hear one thing from one person and believe it to be 'absolutely'. again I didn't follow it perfectly but loved the resultsl
My "coaches" hemmed and hawed like Congressmen when I wanted to discuss it seriously, finally said they do not recommend it, and finally agreed it could be done for less than 45 minutes per day, with added nutrients to compensate. What amount of what nutrient? Crickets. Risk of over compensation? Loss of ketosis. Risk of under compensation? same. Rationale, technical research, papers from authoritative sources? Case histories? Crickets on all. I don't want to be eating and risking losing my muscle tone, bone density, and strength, without knowing authoritative nutrition and sports nutrition experts have conducted research and analysis, over the 20 years of the Optavia plan's existence, to support questions like mine. The Website FAQ's contain no questions about risks related to exercise.
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Old 04-20-23, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
16 lbs of fat loss would equal a deficit of 56,000 Calories. If that was over 5 weeks, that's a deficit of 1600 Calories per day.

That's a huge deficit! I would be extremely wary of any program that prescribes that much Calorie restriction.
What is that calculation based on?
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