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Peanut butter and saturated fats

Old 04-01-23, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
The study which you speak of was done on doctors and nurses, not a very healthy job to begin with....High stress, erratic sleep schedule. lack of sleep, poor diet, lack of exercise are all factors that can contribute to heart disease or diabetes., Has the study investigated their overall lifestyle ?. Did they drink a lot of alcohol, did they smoke, did they exercise, how was their overall diet like ?. What other foods did they eat that might of contributed to their heart disease or diabetes ?..I highly doubt it was eggs alone, but unfortunately eggs have became a scapegoat in this particular study. Science has been flip / flopping on egg consumption for a long time. Me personally I eat whatever makes me feel good, I've been eating 5 - 6 whole eggs daily for breakfast for the past 30 years. and will continue to do so regardless of what any study has to say.
Wow, that's a lot of eggs! Kudos on leaning into that level of commitment, regardless of what the science says.

For the benefit of others who don't have their minds made up, here's another study from Sweden:

" In men, consumption of ≤6 eggs/wk was not associated with HF risk; however, daily egg consumption (≥1/d) was associated with a 30% higher risk of [heart failure]."

-- Larsson SC, Åkesson A, Wolk A. Egg consumption and risk of heart failure, myocardial infarction, and stroke: results from 2 prospective cohorts. Am J Clin Nutr. 2015 Nov;102(5):1007-13. doi: 10.3945/ajcn.115.119263. Epub 2015 Sep 23. PMID: 26399866.

Deny away.
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Old 04-01-23, 04:34 PM
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The risks and benefit of eggs or any other food should be considered in terms of what it replaces in the diet. If you are eating eggs in place of Frosted Flakes, they are very healthy. In place of fish or tofu, possibly less so. This is one of the issues that make observational diet studies difficult to interpret.
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Old 11-29-23, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
My former GP had me read the Omega Diet when I first started seeing him. The book that started the Omega 3 awareness. It talks of the vegetable oils. Very roughly, there are the oils of the common grains that are Omega 6 sources and oils from the dark green veggies and some others like flax seed. And olive oil which has neither but is in many other ways, simply excellent. That author postulated that the optimum blend of human health was 6 parts Omega 6 to one part of Omega 3.

The 6:1 ratio makes it sound like getting enough Omega 3 is a breeze. It isn't. Agriculture has effectively tailored our food to be entirely Omega 6. Putting cows, goats and pigs out to pasture in fields and woods with a lot of the dark stuff isn't efficient. They fatten up far faster eating pure grain. And over-eaten fields have don't have much in the way of dark greens. Things have gotten better. Here in Portland, the stores offer what I call "goat food". Kale, chard, spinach greens, mustard greens ... The veggies that used to be just weeds.

I take a fish oil capsule every night for its 1000mg of Omega 3. Or, it that isn't to be had, flax oil capsules. Use peanut oil only when I need an oil that can handle the hot wok. For everything else, I use olive oil. I do love and consume peanut butter. I have access to freshly made, 100% peanut every Saturday at the farmer's market. A farmer's grand mother makes it. So thick it doesn't spread until it's warm. (Kept refrigerated.) I do a small jar a week.

The pursuit of the Omega 3s seems to work for me. The pasty 20 years I have felt much better than I did the 15 years prior. I've never matched the feeling of my 20s when I was a bike racer, totally in form and ate well, no meat, milk and little white powders. (Salt - very low, sucrose - next to none, little white flour, none bleached ...) Now I have to live with the crash damage I compiled then and later. Blah, blah blah. Aging sucks. But my gut works very well. I feel fully alive and I am interested in nutritious food 'cause it's an interesting topic and I use a lot of online sources to get updated. On eof them is https://ca.papersowl.com/write-my-research-paper because I develop a research paper and need expert opinion to finish my academic study. Life is good.
I think I disagree that the optimal Omega-6 to Omega-3 ratio is 6:1. While this ratio may have been appropriate for our ancestors who consumed a diet rich in wild plants and game meat, it's not necessarily suitable for us, modern humans whose diets are heavily skewed toward processed foods and omega-6-rich vegetable oils.

As far as I know, a more balanced ratio of around 2:1 or even 1:1 is closer to ideal for promoting optimal health. This is because omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acids play opposing roles in the body's inflammatory response. Omega-6 fatty acids are generally pro-inflammatory, while omega-3 fatty acids are anti-inflammatory. When the balance is tipped too far in favor of omega-6, chronic inflammation can develop, increasing the risk of various chronic diseases, including heart disease, cancer, and autoimmune disorders.

(Yeah, I have some medicine knowledge)

I agree that consuming plenty of dark green leafy vegetables is an excellent way to boost omega-3 intake. However, I would caution against relying solely on plant-based sources of omega-3s, as the conversion of ALA to EPA and DHA is relatively inefficient.
For this reason, I also recommend incorporating fatty fish into your diet. Fatty fish, such as salmon, mackerel, sardines, herring,... are excellent sources of EPA and DHA. Aim to consume at least two servings of fatty fish per week.

In addition to dietary changes, I really recommend lifestyle factors that will improve your omega-6 to omega-3 ratio: limiting your intake of processed foods, reducing your consumption of omega-6-rich vegetable oils, and increasing your intake of omega-3-rich supplements, such as fish oil or algae oil

By following my recommendations, you can help optimize your omega-6 to omega-3 ratio and potentially reduce your risk of chronic diseases.
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Old 11-29-23, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha
Me too. Peter Attia, who has surveyed the longevity literature as well as anyone, says he doesn't want to hear about diet from anyone who can't dead-lift their own weight. First things first.
I’m currently reading Peter Attia’s book “Outlive” which is a proving to be a great overview of the current science, along with a lot of practical advice. It covers the controversy of saturated fats pretty well. It’s a lot more nuanced than “good” vs “bad” fats and cholesterol.
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Old 11-29-23, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Steamer
Here is a good deep dive on protein. https://youtu.be/BqmG2y4IeY8

Lessons learned, among others:

No less than 30 grams of complete protein is needed in one sitting to stimulate tissue growth. Spreading it out doesn't have the same effect.
First meal of the day is the most important for getting your protein. Last meal is 2nd most important.
Be conscious of how complete your protein is. (peanuts are low in methionine and lysine, for example)
Don't think of protein in terms of percentage of calories. Think of it in terms of being a daily prescription of grams of protein / kg of body weight.
I haven’t read your link, but other highly reputable sources I have read don’t support the above claims at all. Especially when it comes to specific timing of protein intake.
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Old 11-29-23, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
I haven’t read your link, but other highly reputable sources I have read don’t support the above claims at all. Especially when it comes to specific timing of protein intake.
Maybe you should.
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Old 11-29-23, 05:47 PM
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Peanuts are some of the cheapest calories with some nutrition that you are going to find.
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Old 11-29-23, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Steamer
Maybe you should.
Yes I have started watching it with interest, especially since Peter Attia is the interviewer. I’m not saying it’s wrong, but I have heard quite different views about protein intake and timing from other legit sources. So it will be interesting to compare what this guy is saying.

I was under the impression that it didn’t really matter when we consume our protein and that 20g was about the maximum we could process in a single meal. This was in the context of protein intake following exercise and debunking the popular notion that we need to shovel down a load of protein within an hour of finishing our exercise.
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Old 11-29-23, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by OBoile
Yep. A relatively young science that is notoriously difficult to study and experiment on. The people who are genuinely trying to advance the field, and not just grift off of people looking for a miracle cure, are the first to caution others that we don't really know very much.
Actually there is a line of research on diet that was ongoing for maybe a 1000 years. Not done to the doctrines of modern science and not presented in a form that works in scientific circles. Ayurveda. Part of the triangle of health. Spiritual, diet and lifestyle. I've read a couple of books and made small changes (that have worked out for the better - like warming apples in a saucepan of water before eating; they sit radically better in my stomach). Been told that I really need to study under a master; that it is easy to go astray on one's own (like a lot of stuff). Haven't yet but maybe someday.

Ayurveda came about as the observations of people's diet and health over lifetimes by masters who spent their entire lives studying the same people; an approach we do not have the patience for. I suspect those masters also received "gifts" of knowledge through meditation or other spiritual means (similar to the American Indians). Sources of wisdom completely unacceptable to modern science.
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Old 11-29-23, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by mramra
I think I disagree that the optimal Omega-6 to Omega-3 ratio is 6:1. While this ratio may have been appropriate for our ancestors who consumed a diet rich in wild plants and game meat, it's not necessarily suitable for us, modern humans whose diets are heavily skewed toward processed foods and omega-6-rich vegetable oils.

As far as I know, a more balanced ratio of around 2:1 or even 1:1 is closer to ideal for promoting optimal health. This is because omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acids play opposing roles in the body's inflammatory response. Omega-6 fatty acids are generally pro-inflammatory, while omega-3 fatty acids are anti-inflammatory. When the balance is tipped too far in favor of omega-6, chronic inflammation can develop, increasing the risk of various chronic diseases, including heart disease, cancer, and autoimmune disorders.

(Yeah, I have some medicine knowledge)

I agree that consuming plenty of dark green leafy vegetables is an excellent way to boost omega-3 intake. However, I would caution against relying solely on plant-based sources of omega-3s, as the conversion of ALA to EPA and DHA is relatively inefficient.
For this reason, I also recommend incorporating fatty fish into your diet. Fatty fish, such as salmon, mackerel, sardines, herring,... are excellent sources of EPA and DHA. Aim to consume at least two servings of fatty fish per week.

In addition to dietary changes, I really recommend lifestyle factors that will improve your omega-6 to omega-3 ratio: limiting your intake of processed foods, reducing your consumption of omega-6-rich vegetable oils, and increasing your intake of omega-3-rich supplements, such as fish oil or algae oil

By following my recommendations, you can help optimize your omega-6 to omega-3 ratio and potentially reduce your risk of chronic diseases.
I haven't actually tracked my omega 6 intake. But I have reduced it. I consume that 1000mg capsule each night plus a can of sardines 4 nights a week and one can of either wild salmon or tuna. Lots of goat food. Whole grains in decreasing amounts as I age. The book "The Omega Diet" found that 6:1 ratio of Omega 6 to Omega 3 was achieved by just two societies on this planet, the people of his native Crete (lots of goat food and the goats that ate the same) and the fishing communities of northern Japan who ate a lot of high Omega 3 sea mammals, fish and kelp. The book suggests that 6:1, while sounding completely skewed toward Omega 6, is actually a very high number for the far scarcer Omega 3.
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Old 11-29-23, 08:20 PM
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I like peanut butter.
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Old 12-24-23, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by SpedFast
I like peanut butter.
Half a PB&J/hr keeps my wheels spinning!
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Old 12-30-23, 08:58 PM
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One of the things I consider in thinking about diet is our evolution. We know that **** sapiens has thrived on many different diets, depending on what's available. One of the things that's available in most places at least at some time during the year is eggs. And we started out as small critters who ate a lot of dinosaur eggs, and kept at it for maybe 150 million years. So I figure eggs are good, just not too many. One of the necessary nutrients in eggs is choline. We supposedly would do best on about 550mg of choline per day:
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Choline-Consumer/

One large egg has about 147mg, so 2 eggs/day gets you about half your requirement. There are other dietary choline sources and we do make some choline in our bodies, don't know how much though. My wife and I only go through about a dozed eggs/week and eat no dinosaurs (just their eggs) or mammals. Looking at that, I started supplementing with sunflower lecithin. It does seem like that addition helped me heal faster. Anyway, no harm in it that I know of - no cholesterol in lecithin.

To the OP, I had borderline cholesterol levels at your age and now had 3 stents and one minor heart attack, in spite of having been an ovo-lacto-pisco "vegetarian" for 50-some years. It is said that cardiologists lose their license if they don't prescribe a statin for folks your age. Seriously, consider taking a statin. About 80% of people can take one with zero side effects.
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Old 12-31-23, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
One of the things I consider in thinking about diet is our evolution. We know that **** sapiens has thrived on many different diets, depending on what's available. One of the things that's available in most places at least at some time during the year is eggs. And we started out as small critters who ate a lot of dinosaur eggs, and kept at it for maybe 150 million years. So I figure eggs are good, just not too many. One of the necessary nutrients in eggs is choline. We supposedly would do best on about 550mg of choline per day:
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Choline-Consumer/

One large egg has about 147mg, so 2 eggs/day gets you about half your requirement. There are other dietary choline sources and we do make some choline in our bodies, don't know how much though. My wife and I only go through about a dozed eggs/week and eat no dinosaurs (just their eggs) or mammals. Looking at that, I started supplementing with sunflower lecithin. It does seem like that addition helped me heal faster. Anyway, no harm in it that I know of - no cholesterol in lecithin.

To the OP, I had borderline cholesterol levels at your age and now had 3 stents and one minor heart attack, in spite of having been an ovo-lacto-pisco "vegetarian" for 50-some years. It is said that cardiologists lose their license if they don't prescribe a statin for folks your age. Seriously, consider taking a statin. About 80% of people can take one with zero side effects.
More recent research has shown statins do not significantly increase lifespan and can have detrimental side effects. Please do your homework before going on statins.
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Old 12-31-23, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by RH Clark
More recent research has shown statins do not significantly increase lifespan and can have detrimental side effects. Please do your homework before going on statins.
I believe there is increasing evidence also showing advantages using statins when treatment of PCa (Prostate Cancer) involves chemo

https://www.mdanderson.org/newsroom/...159462423.html

--MD Anderson News Release August 03, 2021A study led by researchers from The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center found a significant association between cholesterol-lowering drugs commonly known as statins and survival rates of triple-negative breast cancer patients. Since statins are low in cost, easy to access and produce minimal side effects, this could have an important impact on outcomes for this aggressive disease.--The study, led by Kevin Nead, M.D., assistant professor of Epidemiology, was published today in Cancer. This research extends the current knowledge of the association between statin use and triple-negative breast cancer (TNBC), and it is the first study that was adequately powered to investigate the association of statins and aggressive breast cancer subtypes.
--Researchers found a 58% relative improvement in breast cancer-specific survival and a 30% relative improvement in overall survival with statin use. The median follow-up was 3.3 years for breast cancer-specific survival and 4.4 years for overall survival.

p.s. - nut butter from TREE NUTS is superior to peanut butter

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Old 12-31-23, 07:17 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by RH Clark
More recent research has shown statins do not significantly increase lifespan and can have detrimental side effects. Please do your homework before going on statins.
One always has to discuss medical issues involving prescriptions with one's doctor, a much better idea then getting advice from the internet. I think this is the study to which you are referring:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7670393/

You may not have noticed this at the bottom:
This study relied on publicly available, previously published studies. The Committee of Human Research at the University of California, San Francisco, determined that this research did not meet the definition of human subjects research.
These would be better reference studies:
https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opini...h-forever.html
https://www.escardio.org/The-ESC/Pre...f-statin-thera

My story is that in 2017 I had a weird experience with my heart which I now realize was due to simply massive overreaching. A it happened, I was referring to a cardiologist. He did a complete workup and found that, though this had nothing to do with my experience, a scan of my heart showed a high calcium score, IOW I had some partial blockages, like over 50% in my LAD, the "widow-maker". The doctor put me on a statin. However I quickly discovered that I was in that 20% for whom taking a statin means some level of myalgia. I was OK in day-to-day life, but I couldn't ride in the hills. So I stopped the statin, not willing to give up my cycling.

Six years later, I've had a heart attack and acquired 3 stents, one of them in the LAD which was by then 90% blocked. The good news is that since 2017 a new type of medication has been developed which replaces a statin, has even better results, and does not cause myalgia. I've been on that for over a year and my cholesterol is now over in the OK zone. It's called Repatha, expensive but tolerable with health insurance.

I've been on a low cholesterol plant-based diet for over 50 years, have always been active, and thought I didn't have anything to worry about. I was wrong.
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Old 01-01-24, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy

I've been on a low cholesterol plant-based diet for over 50 years, have always been active, and thought I didn't have anything to worry about. I was wrong.
60 - 70 years ago some doctors started to believe that dietary cholesterol was responsible for an increase in heart attacks. They were wrong, just look where it got us.... Today after a lot of research and studies it's been proven that dietary cholesterol has almost no effect on blood cholesterol and no effect on the ratio between LDL and HDL. Human liver makes all the cholesterol even if people avoid eating it and who follow low fat diets. Even anorexics who starve themselves and people on low calorie diets can have high cholesterol....It's been known for some time that humans are flawed right from birth. Babies and little children already have arteriosclerosis in them before they even reach old age. It's just a matter of time, some people get heart attack sooner and some get it later but majority of deaths are still from heart disease. I'll just stick with my animal based diet.
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Old 01-01-24, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
60 - 70 years ago some doctors started to believe that dietary cholesterol was responsible for an increase in heart attacks. They were wrong, just look where it got us.... Today after a lot of research and studies it's been proven that dietary cholesterol has almost no effect on blood cholesterol and no effect on the ratio between LDL and HDL. Human liver makes all the cholesterol even if people avoid eating it and who follow low fat diets. Even anorexics who starve themselves and people on low calorie diets can have high cholesterol....It's been known for some time that humans are flawed right from birth. Babies and little children already have arteriosclerosis in them before they even reach old age. It's just a matter of time, some people get heart attack sooner and some get it later but majority of deaths are still from heart disease. I'll just stick with my animal based diet.
A plant-based diet is better for one's arteries than a meat-based diet. Peanuts are a plant. I consume both peanut and almond butters, but neither frequently.

The lack of association between dietary cholesterol and blood cholesterol doesn't change the fact that high levels of blood cholesterol are associated with CVD. It's just that eating cholesterol doesn't happen to raise its blood level. It's what usually accompanies dietary cholesterol in the diet that's the problem:
https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/...gh-cholesterol

I've had yearly health exams for decades. A fasting blood test is always required before the exam. My blood cholesterol was usually higher than recommended and I couldn't seem to bring it down with diet, exercise, and/or currently available medication. Too bad for me.
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Old 01-21-24, 12:50 PM
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it's great that you're mindful of your health. Balancing protein intake from peanut butter with saturated fat concerns is key. Maybe try diversifying protein sources to reduce saturated fat impact. Consider consulting a nutritionist to fine-tune your diet ( u can also check this article for some insights https://betterme.world/articles/fat-absorption/ ) and maintain a healthy balance, especially given your age and concerns about LDL levels

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Old 03-12-24, 07:01 AM
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The thing about protein is that it has a lot to do with what you do..

If you are doing a lot of resistance exercise, trying to build muscle, you need extra protein. By itself, cycling doesn't increase the need for protein by much.
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Old 03-12-24, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by late
If you are doing a lot of resistance exercise, trying to build muscle, you need extra protein. By itself, cycling doesn't increase the need for protein by much.
That depends on your definition of "much".

Endurance exercise requires more protein intake, that's for sure:

"According to sports nutrition consensus statements mainly based data from NBAL studies, protein recommendations for endurance athletes have been suggested to be 1.2–1.4 g protein/kg/d; these recommendations are 50–75% greater than the current RDA of 0.8 g/kg/d."

-- Kato et al, Protein Requirements Are Elevated in Endurance Athletes after Exercise as Determined by the Indicator Amino Acid Oxidation Method, PLOS One 2016

50-75% more protein seems to be in the "much" category, no?
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Old 03-12-24, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse

That depends on your definition of "much".

Endurance exercise requires more protein intake, that's for sure:

"According to sports nutrition consensus statements mainly based data from NBAL studies, protein recommendations for endurance athletes have been suggested to be 1.2–1.4 g protein/kg/d; these recommendations are 50–75% greater than the current RDA of 0.8 g/kg/d."

-- Kato et al, Protein Requirements Are Elevated in Endurance Athletes after Exercise as Determined by the Indicator Amino Acid Oxidation Method, PLOS One 2016

50-75% more protein seems to be in the "much" category, no?
The discussion had been about some new thinking about bodybuilding that involves consuming tons of protein.

Most cyclists aren't endurance athletes, you're in a minority. In any case, it doesn't matter. I have been putting a scoop of whey protein in my morning tea, it seems to help.
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Old 03-12-24, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by late
Most cyclists aren't endurance athletes, you're in a minority.
The recommended protein requirement for a recreational cyclist is still 1.2-1.4 g/kg/day, the same as any other endurance athlete.

If you're riding your bike several hours per week--even if you don't call yourself an "endurance athlete"--you need more protein.
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Old 03-13-24, 08:30 AM
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1.4 grams/kg comes to about 111 grams of protein for a 175 pound person. That's only 4 ounces of protein. Still well below what most probably eat daily. So I don't understand why you are saying we need more, but give information that suggests we get more than enough. Or do you believe we all eat diets deficient in protein?

The suggestion is for protein per day. Not protein per ride.
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Old 03-13-24, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
1.4 grams/kg comes to about 111 grams of protein for a 175 pound person. That's only 4 ounces of protein. Still well below what most probably eat daily. So I don't understand why you are saying we need more, but give information that suggests we get more than enough. Or do you believe we all eat diets deficient in protein?
I believe that not all cyclists get enough protein in their diet.

We active cyclists need more protein than the RDA, not more than the "average American".

Whether the "average American" gets more or less than the RDA is not important. I am not "average"; nobody is "average". I have to be mindful to get enough protein (and total calories) daily. Except for yogurt (quality source of protein and calcium), I eat vegan. I am not unique.
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