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144 mile ride

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Old 11-01-05, 09:57 AM
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pmbmsu
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144 mile ride

I need some help in regard to nutritional intake on rides. I was told that you burn 800 calories per hour while riding. Is that a fairly accurate number? If so how much of those calories need to be ingested and how much will come from bodies fat reserves?

Also what types of foods, supplements do others use for rides?

I am planning a 144 mile ride this Friday and want to make sure I give my body the fuel it needs to get ' R ' Done.

Any nutritional infor you share will be greatly appreciated. I am rather new to cycling and trying to learn as much as possible.
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Old 11-01-05, 10:52 AM
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What is the longest one-day ride you've done, and how long did it take you?
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Old 11-01-05, 11:27 AM
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I have done 83 miles in about 6 hrs.
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Old 11-01-05, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by pmbmsu
I need some help in regard to nutritional intake on rides. I was told that you burn 800 calories per hour while riding. Is that a fairly accurate number? If so how much of those calories need to be ingested and how much will come from bodies fat reserves?

Also what types of foods, supplements do others use for rides?

I am planning a 144 mile ride this Friday and want to make sure I give my body the fuel it needs to get ' R ' Done.

Any nutritional infor you share will be greatly appreciated. I am rather new to cycling and trying to learn as much as possible.
Unless your really working hard you will burn closer to 600 - 700/ hour. You can not eat that much while riding. Try to eat about 250 - 300kcal/hour which is about a bottle of sport drink and a bar or gel every hour. Eat breakfast too.

Good Luck and have fun.
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Old 11-01-05, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by pmbmsu
I need some help in regard to nutritional intake on rides. I was told that you burn 800 calories per hour while riding. Is that a fairly accurate number? If so how much of those calories need to be ingested and how much will come from bodies fat reserves?

Also what types of foods, supplements do others use for rides?

I am planning a 144 mile ride this Friday and want to make sure I give my body the fuel it needs to get ' R ' Done.

Any nutritional infor you share will be greatly appreciated. I am rather new to cycling and trying to learn as much as possible.
Okay, let's see if I can help. First of all, and most importantly, "get R done" must be utterly banished from your vocabulary. You can't ride 144 miles with a broom in your stake rack, a level in your gun rack, and your ballcap on backwards.

Secondly, the figure of 600 kcal/hr stated earlier is pretty much accepted for recreational riders. 800 kcal/hour is more like a professional athlete's training ride. You won't be able to digest much more than 300 kcal/hr. The super-high-density gels and sport drinks often cause stomach upset in people who aren't accustomed to them, and some people have better luck with one formulation than with another. You should not have your first experience with puking by the roadside this Friday. Those liquid foods are designed for races when you can't stop and take any time to eat, chew, and digest. I think you can afford to slow down and eat on the bike, and take a few breaks from time to time. I'm a big fan of bananas and rice krispie treats while riding. Eating while riding is an acquired skill.
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Old 11-01-05, 01:08 PM
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It's going to be tough going from 83 to 144 miles. I would say you are well poised to do 100. 144 is going to be tougher.
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Old 11-01-05, 01:34 PM
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If you averaged 15 MPH for 144 miles, it will take you 9.6 hours (576 minutes).

Put that and your weight in this calculator to get a general idea of calories burned:

http://www.primusweb.com/fitnesspart...e/calculat.htm

Depending on how intense 15 MPH average is for you over 144 miles, you will likely burn 30-50 percent of those calories in fat with the percentage of fat increasing as a function of time and your expenditure of glycogen from your muscles and your liver.
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Old 11-01-05, 03:10 PM
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That was a sarcasism in regards to Git R Done. I am from Mi and have fun with the southern twist on things. I appreciate yours response and hope to have a great ride with planned stops. If I can bother for some more of your expertise. My typical ride of 20 to 30 miles I avrg. 17 to 19 mph over hilly terrrain. As stated earlier I had riden 83m in about 15 mph avr. That ride was 500 miles ago. My workout speeds have increased significantly. My question is. Do you have any input on average speed I should try to work with in to make the trip? Knowing that my mentality is very hard to choke down. I am worried that I will push to hard to start and blow up before I can finish.
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Old 11-01-05, 05:33 PM
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I have the same tendency. I wouldn't think that you could increase the pace much, even though you have got a little bit more training in since your 83 miler. But I wouldn't recommend slowing down, either, since 10 hours on the bike will hurt you in ways you never imagined.
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Old 11-01-05, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by pmbmsu
I have done 83 miles in about 6 hrs.
That's about 14mph average and a 450-550 cal/hr pace. Depending upon your fitness level, the ratio of fat-burning will vary from 5% to 30%. Do you happen to know what your VO2-max and lactate-threshold is? And your speed at LT? That'll give us a better idea as to your total calorie expenditure and fat-burning ratio.

For example, if your max-average speed at LT on a 10-mile TT is 25mph (very fit, top 10% athlete), then when riding that 14mph, you'll be burning off mostly fat, 30% or so. However, if your max-average speed at LT is 15mph, riding 14mph will have you burning only 10% fat. Both riders will be burning up the same number of calories, about 5000 for that ride. However, the fit one will burn up 1500 calories of fat, combined with 2000 calories of stored glycogen, will only need to eat 1500 calories on the ride. The less-fit rider will burn up only 500 calories of fat and will need to eat 2500 calories.

Here's the catch, you can only absorb about 220-250 calories per hour of ingested cars. So at that pace, a 144 mile ride will take 10-hours and the most you can absorb is up to 2500 calories total. The fit rider will have no problems and will only have to eat 150 calories/hr, less than 1 energy-bar/gel per hour. The less-fit rider, even eating all he can, will still end up bonking right at reaching 144 miles going 14mph. You probably fall somewhere in between.


Originally Posted by pmbmsu
My question is. Do you have any input on average speed I should try to work with in to make the trip? Knowing that my mentality is very hard to choke down. I am worried that I will push to hard to start and blow up before I can finish.
How are you finishing those 83mph rides in 6-hours? Can you go more? Can you recover enough to do the same thing again the next day? This info combined with the earlier VO2-max/LT numbers will give us more data to make an assessment.

I suspect you don't want to increase your average-speed any more than you're going; you'll need to eat even more due to lower fat-burning ratio. Also muscle-fatigue comes into play here as well.

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Old 11-01-05, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by pmbmsu
I need some help in regard to nutritional intake on rides. I was told that you burn 800 calories per hour while riding. Is that a fairly accurate number? If so how much of those calories need to be ingested and how much will come from bodies fat reserves?

Also what types of foods, supplements do others use for rides?

I am planning a 144 mile ride this Friday and want to make sure I give my body the fuel it needs to get ' R ' Done.

Any nutritional infor you share will be greatly appreciated. I am rather new to cycling and trying to learn as much as possible.


Unless you're really heavy or really working out there, 800 calories per hour is high. For me, I consider it to be about 500 calories per hour, and that number has worked in various calculations I've done.

You've probably got about 2000 calories in reserve.

So ... if you eat well (but don't over do it) in the day or two before the ride so that your stores are at their peak, and then have a good breakfast of at least 500 calories, you could conceivably ride about 5 hours on nothing more than water and/or sports drink. Then you'll bonk.

To avoid bonking, it is advisable to start consuming about 250 calories per hour every hour that you are out there, starting right away. As it happens, energy bars are about 250 calories. I find it works best for me to nibble the energy bars as I ride ... a bite or two every 10 or 15 minutes.

Consuming 250 calories per hour can keep you going for about 7-8 hours ... sometimes more ... sometimes less.

But I find that I need to eat a real meal about every 7 hours when I ride ... preferably something with 1000 or more calories. When I get back on the bicycle again, I move a bit more slowly while that digests, but half an hour or so later I'm flying down the road again eating my energy bars.

That's what works for me on my long rides ... and I've finally got it working for me on a whole 1200K randonnee!


Also don't forget to drink. The recommendation is about one 750 ml bottle of water and/or sports drink every 1 to 1.5 hours.
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Old 11-02-05, 07:47 AM
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Thanks to all, for your response's. Ok the science just got a little deeper than I am able to comprehend at this point. I will research Vo2-max and my speeds at LT threshold. I am not sure how to attain those numbers. I will mention that I am an ex- football athlete and weigh a muscular 248 lb frame with about 17% body fat. If that helps in any way.

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge with me. Truly appreciated.
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Old 11-02-05, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by pmbmsu
Thanks to all, for your response's. Ok the science just got a little deeper than I am able to comprehend at this point. I will research Vo2-max and my speeds at LT threshold. I am not sure how to attain those numbers. I will mention that I am an ex- football athlete and weigh a muscular 248 lb frame with about 17% body fat. If that helps in any way.

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge with me. Truly appreciated.
I wouldn't worry about VO2Max or vLT at this point. You're a big guy. Do you really want to subject yourself to an 11 hour (or more if you bonk hard) ride? (assuming a speed lower than your 83 miler)

Your chance of bonking (running out of glycogen to power muscles) is very high. Fat will only burn in a glycogen fire, so once glycogen is depleted, it's game... set... match.

.
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Old 11-02-05, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by pmbmsu
Thanks to all, for your response's. Ok the science just got a little deeper than I am able to comprehend at this point. I will research Vo2-max and my speeds at LT threshold. I am not sure how to attain those numbers. I will mention that I am an ex- football athlete and weigh a muscular 248 lb frame with about 17% body fat. If that helps in any way.

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge with me. Truly appreciated.
We want a trip report unpon completion. I want to ride the C&O canal in 1 day(184 miles) so hearing your report will either spur me on or give me doubts. Charlie
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Old 11-02-05, 11:56 AM
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144 is a lotta miles. Try a century first.
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Old 11-02-05, 11:56 AM
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I thrieve on doing the impossible. When I was a kid I was told that I would not play dvision 1 college football. I did. Then they said I would not play in the NFL well I did that as well. You never really know what you can accomplish until you try. I love to push myself to the limit and yes I really want to do this. I will also give a report on my trip.

I lost my father to a heart attack at a very young age, and realize how short our time is on this earth and refuse to sit back and not do the things I my heart desires. For we are not promised tomorrow.

I will press on regardless on Friday!!!
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Old 11-02-05, 12:37 PM
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Eat a clif bar at the top of each hour and a power gel at the bottom of the hour. Set your watch to it. Drink a 24oz bottle of fluid each hour. Alternate sports drink and water.
Eat before you are hungry or you feel like you are bonking.

Make yourself go slow for the first 40 or 50 miles. Then see how you feel.

I have ridden two centuries. On both rides I felt pretty good still at mile 75 or 80. The last 10 or 15 miles were really tough.
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Old 11-02-05, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by pmbmsu
I thrieve on doing the impossible. When I was a kid I was told that I would not play dvision 1 college football. I did. Then they said I would not play in the NFL well I did that as well. You never really know what you can accomplish until you try. I love to push myself to the limit and yes I really want to do this. I will also give a report on my trip.

I lost my father to a heart attack at a very young age, and realize how short our time is on this earth and refuse to sit back and not do the things I my heart desires. For we are not promised tomorrow.

I will press on regardless on Friday!!!

Oh, it's not impossible. It's just gonna hurt! Believe me. I know from experience from bonking during a marathon (26.2 mile running road race) and in the not too distant past on the bike.

.
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Old 11-02-05, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by jennings780
Eat a clif bar at the top of each hour and a power gel at the bottom of the hour. Set your watch to it. Drink a 24oz bottle of fluid each hour. Alternate sports drink and water.
Eat before you are hungry or you feel like you are bonking.

Make yourself go slow for the first 40 or 50 miles. Then see how you feel.

I have ridden two centuries. On both rides I felt pretty good still at mile 75 or 80. The last 10 or 15 miles were really tough.

Let's do the math:
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Originally Posted by Danno

Here's the catch, you can only absorb about 220-250 calories per hour of ingested carbs. So at that pace, a 144 mile ride will take 10-hours and the most you can absorb is up to 2500 calories total.
Danno is usually right-on about these matters, so let's accept this. Let's use 250 calories for pmbmsu.

Now, let's assume that pmbmsu will do the 144 mile ride in 10 hours. That's 14.4 MPH. He will not likely complete 144 miles at this pace, because he did 83 miles in 6 hours which is 13.8 MPH. So, he'll likely do the greater mileage at a slower average speed--let's go with 13 MPH. That's 11.1 hours of riding. A 248 pound fellow riding at 13 MPH for 11.1 hours will burn about 13,213 calories. He can only absorb, at the most, 250 calories per hour.

250 calories x 11.1 hours = 2,775 calories

Let's say that like many athletes, his glycogen stores can hold about 2 hours worth of calories. For him, at 13 MPH--about 2,381 calories.

And, let's assume his fat burning ratio is at a high level of 30%, so 3,964 calories of the 13,213 calories will be from fat as long as he still has glycogen.

So...

13,213 calories minus (2,775+2,381+3,964) calories = x calories
13,213 calories minus (9,120) calories = 4,093 calories

That's a 4,093 calorie shortfall. That's over a pound of energy in deficit (1 pound = 3,500 calories). At the average speed of 13 MPH, assuming that he can keep it up, he will be out of commission around 7.7 hours.

EDIT: I forgot, at this level of calorie deficit about 10% of energy will be acquired from lean body tissue (muscles, organs). That's another 1,321 calories contributed making the shortfall 2,772 calories.

Last edited by NoRacer; 11-02-05 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 11-02-05, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by pmbmsu
I thrieve on doing the impossible.

I will press on regardless on Friday!!!

144 miles is no where near impossible ... thousands of people do that sort of distance every year, some several times a year ... just eat like I mentioned in my post above and you'll be fine.

Once you've done that, then you might want to consider a bigger challenge like a double century or getting into Randonneuring.
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Old 11-03-05, 03:33 PM
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THANKS FOR ALL YOUR INPUT. I AM HILTON HEAD BOUND IN THE MORNING. I WILL UPDATE ON MONDAY. IF I HAVE COMPLETED BY THEN.

Machka was able to pull alot of nutritional stuff from you web site. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 11-04-05, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by pmbmsu
THANKS FOR ALL YOUR INPUT. I AM HILTON HEAD BOUND IN THE MORNING. I WILL UPDATE ON MONDAY. IF I HAVE COMPLETED BY THEN.

Machka was able to pull alot of nutritional stuff from you web site. Thanks for sharing.
Maybe I am a bit late here on the comment but at the early part of this year I did a 125 mile ride. Now I am used to metrics and imperial centruies when I am in top fitness... let me tell you miles 110 - 125 were very very hard... always keep some kind of bail out ready also... expecially if you bonk...

Good Luck
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Old 11-04-05, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by my58vw
Maybe I am a bit late here on the comment but at the early part of this year I did a 125 mile ride. Now I am used to metrics and imperial centruies when I am in top fitness... let me tell you miles 110 - 125 were very very hard... always keep some kind of bail out ready also... expecially if you bonk...

Good Luck
I disagree with the idea of having a bail out ready. Bail outs can become very tempting, and I've known many cyclists who have opted to go with the bail out when they probably could have continued ... and they've regretted it later. Better to not have it, and be forced into a situation where you have to continue.

And rather than preparing a bail out, it would be a better idea to prepare for the ride. Bonking is simply low blood sugar - when you run out of fuel. So bring food. It's that easy!
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Old 11-07-05, 09:02 AM
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Trip notes:

I made it!!!!! It was a great day riding through the cotton fields in full bloom in Sc. (absolutley beutiful) First 40 miles were full of rolling hills and winds that would stand you up. The hills were no where near what I normally train on. Normally training rides my heart is about 165 to 170. Set heart monitor to alert me at 155bpm. I was able to keep it at about 130 to 140 and was able to avrg a little of 16mph for the first 67 miles. The hills flattened out at about 44 miles and I rode the rest of the ride to the coast on pretty flat land. Actually think I desended to the coast, and actually increased avg speed. It was not easy but not as hard as anticipated. That being said It was one of the most incredible and challenging days of my life. No office, no cellphones, no emails, no kids screaming, I have been blessed with some awesome athletic accomplishments in my life. This rates up there with one of the best. The experience was an incredible one. I cannot wait to do it again!!!!
THANKS TO ALL OF YOU INPUT AGAIN. I WOULD HAVE NEVER DEVELOPED A STRATGEY TO MAKE WITH OUT IT!!
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Old 11-07-05, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by pmbmsu
Trip notes:

I made it!!!!! It was a great day riding through the cotton fields in full bloom in Sc. (absolutley beutiful) First 40 miles were full of rolling hills and winds that would stand you up. The hills were no where near what I normally train on. Normally training rides my heart is about 165 to 170. Set heart monitor to alert me at 155bpm. I was able to keep it at about 130 to 140 and was able to avrg a little of 16mph for the first 67 miles. The hills flattened out at about 44 miles and I rode the rest of the ride to the coast on pretty flat land. Actually think I desended to the coast, and actually increased avg speed. It was not easy but not as hard as anticipated. That being said It was one of the most incredible and challenging days of my life. No office, no cellphones, no emails, no kids screaming, I have been blessed with some awesome athletic accomplishments in my life. This rates up there with one of the best. The experience was an incredible one. I cannot wait to do it again!!!!
THANKS TO ALL OF YOU INPUT AGAIN. I WOULD HAVE NEVER DEVELOPED A STRATGEY TO MAKE WITH OUT IT!!
Congrats. Charlie
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