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Anyone have protein shakes after a long ride?

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Anyone have protein shakes after a long ride?

Old 11-09-05, 05:26 PM
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skandal20
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Anyone have protein shakes after a long ride?

I always have a nice protein shake after a long ride to start rebuilding all those torn muscle cells. My formula is 1 cup nonfat milk, 1 scoop of Optimum Nutrition Vanilla Whey, 1/4 Cup Oats, and a dab of peanut butter. Tastes great, and is filling as well. Anyone else with me on this one?
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Old 11-09-05, 05:31 PM
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those kind of shakes always give me a little bit of a digestive problem. so, i don't have them anymore. i just try to eat a good meal like chicken with pasta.
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Old 11-09-05, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by skandal20
I always have a nice protein shake after a long ride to start rebuilding all those torn muscle cells. My formula is 1 cup nonfat milk, 1 scoop of Optimum Nutrition Vanilla Whey, 1/4 Cup Oats, and a dab of peanut butter. Tastes great, and is filling as well. Anyone else with me on this one?
Absolutely! I am a firm believer in Protein Shakes.
I use 2 large scoops of Vanilla or Chocolate Protein Isolate
and a Tablespoon of Psyillium Husks and 3 cups of skim milk.

Fills me up for hours and yes, I believe it is the perfect drink
for after a big ride.

Ned Goudy
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Old 11-09-05, 06:11 PM
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Ned-I am just curious but that seems to me to be serious overkill in one dose. It is my understanding that the human body can only metablize about 30g of protein at a time-That lot has to be close to 70-80g!
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Old 11-09-05, 06:21 PM
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It certainly doesn't hurt though. Your body will absorb only as much protein as needed to repair damaged muscle-tissue, the rest will just get flushed down the toilet. There's no way that you can force more in than the 60-100g day that's typically absorbed.

Carbs are another matter and it needs to be taken in sufficiently for full recovery of the glycogen-stores. If you've ridden of enough to have depleted the 2000calories that's stored in the muscles, and you don't each enough carbs to replenish it, your body will take apart perfeclty good muscle that's already on your body to convert into glycogen and restock your energy stores.

So it can't hurt to take in too much protein, but it certainly will hurt you to not have enough carbs.
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Old 11-09-05, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
It certainly doesn't hurt though. Your body will absorb only as much protein as needed to repair damaged muscle-tissue, the rest will just get flushed down the toilet. There's no way that you can force more in than the 60-100g day that's typically absorbed.

I am sure it doesn't hurt, except I am not sure excess protein is simply flushed out. I have heard it argued several different ways. It just makes more sense to me to disperse your protein consumption out throughout the day.
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Old 11-09-05, 06:57 PM
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Yeah, I think it depends upon your source of proteins. Complete proteins from meats are fair-game I think, but you do have to take in the fats along with it. Supplement and protein powders with basic aminos may have disproportionate ratios that may cause problems leading to things like L-tryptophan being yanked from the market. Overall, you have to understand the underlying physiological and metabolic processes involved and optimize and balance interdepent rates of everything. You can't just tweak and force one part without it having adverse effects elsewhere.

On common problems of insufficient carb-intake shows up with fast initial weight-loss, but maintaining same body-fat% due to muscle being disassembled as well: Losing weight but stopped losing fat... what now?. And more detailed mechanism and calculations shown here: Burning Fat/Burning Glycogen.

Part of the issue is that low blood-sugar from insufficient carbs will not raise insulin/leptin levels after a meal. This causes the glucose-absorption rate into the muscles to be slow and muscles wiill be torn apart at a faster rate. Low blood-sugar & leptin levels also cause you to feel hungry, and feeling like that chronically sucks. You get tempted to binge and do more harm to your exercise programme.

Last edited by DannoXYZ; 11-15-05 at 03:28 AM.
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Old 11-11-05, 05:59 AM
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protein will improve glycogen formation after a ride. Try to get about 100g carbs plus at least 30g protein. easily digested protein, such as whey protein, plus high glycaemic carbs are the way to go. This will maximise glycogen formation. The excess protein can be converted into glycogen or fat. The body is not too wasteful, it wil not all go down the loo. BTW the body can absorb much more than 1g protein per pound of bodyweight. Studies consistently show that endurance athletes, not just strength athletes, need lots more protein than a sedentary person.
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Old 11-11-05, 08:04 AM
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I'd just like to jump in and second MattyLimbo's point that the body can absorb well over 1g/lb of bodyweight. It's a common fallacy (especially among endurance athletes) that anything over 30g in one sittting will not be absorbed. Absolutely false. Given then amount of muscle damage from a long ride, assuming you're working hard and there is moderate elevation change somewhere, the average person should go for more than 30g. And that big plate/bowl of chicken and pasta probably has more than 30g, but for some reason people get scared when it's protein powder.
It probably wouldn't hurt to add a little extra glutamine and creatine either, or to take in some branched chain amino acids (BCAA) during that ride along with your water/gatorade/power gel.
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Old 11-11-05, 08:09 AM
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The fellas at RoadBikeRider.com claim chocolate milk is a sufficient post ride beverage.
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Old 11-11-05, 08:09 AM
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Nah, I get my 4-to-1 carbo-to-protein ratio with a big glass of cold chocolate soy milk. That tides me over till I can have a meal, usually within the hour.
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Old 11-11-05, 09:21 AM
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As a f/t commuter, I have the makings for shakes at work and and home, and combine a shake with a good carb source after every ride. It works very well for me.
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Old 11-14-05, 10:49 PM
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Another protien loader, as if cycling is a strenth sport. the sorness you feel after a hard ride is depleted glycogen. im a cat 1, race season i consume 90 grms of protien a day. off season 70 grms. but carbs 600 grms. to much protien = to many calories= fat, kidney problems etc.
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Old 11-15-05, 02:06 AM
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Last time I checked (1 min. ago) carbs and protein both contain the same amount of calories gram for gram. (4 calories in each gram as opposed to 9 calories per gram of fat) So you may want to reconsider your "protein makes you fat" assumption and change your diet accordingly.
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Old 11-15-05, 03:53 AM
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Originally Posted by pacesetter
Another protien loader, as if cycling is a strenth sport. the sorness you feel after a hard ride is depleted glycogen. im a cat 1, race season i consume 90 grms of protien a day. off season 70 grms. but carbs 600 grms. to much protien = to many calories= fat, kidney problems etc.
Uh no... the soreness is due to bound Z-bands and the excessive breakdown of muscle fibers, which causes the release of muscle cell content. The cell content attracts inflammatory cells, which release chemicals that irritate nerve fibers, causing pain. These same chemicals also attract repair cells that contribute to healing and development of the muscle (fibroblasts).

The body will then rebuild these damaged muscle-fibre using free amino-acids from the bloodstream. The 70-90gm protein a day is about right for maximum tissue-rebuilding. However, only an amount sufficient to rebuild muscle-cells (and a little bit more) will be absorbed. Eating 10-lbs of steaks will not automatically result in 10-lb of muscle gain on your body. It's like putting water into a sponge, you can't force 10-gallons into a kitchen sponge no matter how hard you try.

------------------------------------------------------

It's not just what you eat, it's what happens to it once it gets into your bloodstream. You need to be able to follow each and every single piece of glucose or protein through the body and see how it interacts with the various systems.

First, as an energy source for generating, protein is the most inefficient. The rates of conversion to ATP for carb, protein, fats is 0.842, 0.520 and 0.883. Protein as an energy source is most inefficient due to the conversion overhead: http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/131/4/1309 . And muscle-protein within the muscle-fibres is the most readily metabolised source in the absense of glycogen. Free-floating amino-acids in the bloodstream is not as easily used due to the transport time. So if you bonk and run out of carbs to burn, the body will disasssemble muscle to use for energy faster than using ingested protein.

Second, as a method for replenishing muscle-glycogen stores during recovery, above a baseline carb-level, a carb+protein mixture does not result in glycogen synthesis as fast as a high-carb mixture: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/72/1/106



A 1.2g/kg/hr carb-intake rebuilds muscle-glycogen faster than a 0.8g/kg/hr carb+0.4/kg/hr protein mix, which is faster than a low 0.8g/kg/hr carb-intake. Again, if your blood-glucose levels are insufficient to keep up with glycogen-rebuilding rate, muscular protein will be converted instead. The fastest recovery rate is with a high-carb mixture.


Originally Posted by skandal20
Last time I checked (1 min. ago) carbs and protein both contain the same amount of calories gram for gram. (4 calories in each gram as opposed to 9 calories per gram of fat) So you may want to reconsider your "protein makes you fat" assumption and change your diet accordingly.
It depends upon how you get your protein. Getting it from meats will force you to take fat along with it; which is higher calorie-density than both protein & carbs. While extra protein above amount needed to rebuild muscle doesn't hurt above the 60-90g/day maximum intake for rebuilding muscles. However, if you're low on carbs to replenish muscle-glycogen stores, you will actually end up hurting muscle-rebuilding because your muscles will be taken apart to restore glycogen levels. That's why athletes on fast weight-loss and low-carb diets ends up losing weight while maintaining the same body-fat %, because they're losing as much muscle as fat... Not good for fast fitness-improvement rates or maximum-performance. You will end up as a thin 150lb twig with a double-chin, high body-fat%, high resting-heartrate, low VO2-max, low LT, low max-HR recovery rates, low recovery between workouts and generally slower fitness improvement rates.

In summary, excess carbs hurt performance a lot less than excess protein with insufficient carbs.

Last edited by DannoXYZ; 11-15-05 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 11-15-05, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
In summary, excess carbs hurt performance a lot less than excess protein with insufficient carbs.
I am not a nutrionist, but the way I figure it there
are enough carbs in the milk to give me what I need
and I can pass the extra protein if it is not used.

But I AM on a weight loss regime and my intent
is to lose. I don't feel I am losing muscle tho,
because sometimes I gain a little weight or
stall out for a few weeks if I am getting more
exercise on the bike.

Gotta run, I am gonna get me some free wheel'n
sunshine and fresh air on this great So. California
day.

Ned
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Old 11-15-05, 03:08 PM
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I have a shake after a hard ride. 1 scoop of whey protien Chocolate, 8 ounce skim milk,ice cubes,banana touch of Peanut Butter....blend till smooth.
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Old 11-15-05, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by nedgoudy
I am not a nutrionist, but the way I figure it there are enough carbs in the milk to give me what I need and I can pass the extra protein if it is not used.

But I AM on a weight loss regime and my intent is to lose. I don't feel I am losing muscle tho, because sometimes I gain a little weight or stall out for a few weeks if I am getting more exercise on the bike.
As long as you track everything you eat and are getting sufficient carbs, you're fine. Weight-loss will result when fewer calories are ingested than exercised off. But without knowning an exact number of what's eaten to compare to the exercise level, no one can make an assessment of "enough carbs". This site has a good tracking programme: http://www.fitday.com. Also tracking body-fat% along with weight yields useful feedback to correlate with diet and training regimen.

There are also numerous factors involving fat/lipid metabolism: Adiposity 101. A low-carb diet quickly hits a plateau of weight-loss where muscle-disassembly is necessary for further progress. At which point, weight continues to drop, but body-fat% remains constant.
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Old 11-20-05, 12:08 PM
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okay, danno, i'll buy what you say so far. but let's look at another angle. i'm trying to keep my weight under control, lose some body fat, and maximize my riding by watching this stuff based on when i eat. i'm currently experimenting with the idea of eating carbs during breakfast and lunch, and i now eat carbs after a ride, and i try and save eating my protein (from a commercial shake mix) with my dinner. i used to have a protein shake after a long or hard ride, but i've gone to carbs then, and the protein shake in the evening. i don't pay much attention to fats; i don't eat meat and very little junk food, so i just don't concern myself with it. any thoughts?
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Old 11-20-05, 01:24 PM
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Old 11-20-05, 02:12 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by smoke
okay, danno, i'll buy what you say so far. but let's look at another angle. i'm trying to keep my weight under control, lose some body fat, and maximize my riding by watching this stuff based on when i eat. i'm currently experimenting with the idea of eating carbs during breakfast and lunch, and i now eat carbs after a ride, and i try and save eating my protein (from a commercial shake mix) with my dinner. i used to have a protein shake after a long or hard ride, but i've gone to carbs then, and the protein shake in the evening. i don't pay much attention to fats; i don't eat meat and very little junk food, so i just don't concern myself with it. any thoughts?
That sounds great! If you're eating fewer calories than you burn to lose weight, timing the meals does affect the balance of muscle vs. fat loss. Eating the carbs before the ride isn't as important as after since you usually have well-stocked glycogen-stores at the beginning. However, if you're going to be riding a long ride such that you will be depleting your entire 2000-calorie supply (like 2-3+ hour ride), then eating carbs before the ride is very important. In both cases, post-ride carb-intake is the most important part for recovery and staving off muscle-breakdown. Then protein meal later is fine.

I would however, be concerned with fat intake. Fats have the highest calorie-density, 9-Cal/gm so you really should watch it. A big plate of fettucini-carbonara may have 500-calories from the pasta, 250-calories protein from the ham, but 1000-calories in fat from the cheese and oil. It would take about three days in a row of high-mileage endurance-rides (60-75 miles) to burn off the 1000-calories from fat just to break even on this meal. Better off to get that dish with marinara sauce and cut out most of those fat-calories altogether with the same carb & protein intake.

Last edited by DannoXYZ; 11-20-05 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 11-20-05, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
That sounds great! If you're eating fewer calories than you burn to lose weight, timing the meals does affect the balance of muscle vs. fat loss. Eating the carbs before the ride isn't as important as after since you usually have well-stocked glycogen-stores at the beginning. However, if you're going to be riding a long ride such that you will be depleting your entire 2000-calorie supply (like 2-3+ hour ride), then eating carbs before the ride is very important. In both cases, post-ride carb-intake is the most important part for recovery and staving off muscle-breakdown. Then protein meal later is fine.

I would however, be concerned with fat intake. Fats have the highest calorie-density, 9-Cal/gm so you really should watch it. A big plate of fettucini-carbonara may have 500-calories from the pasta, 250-calories protein from the ham, but 1000-calories in fat from the cheese and oil. It would take about three days in a row of high-mileage endurance-rides (60-75 miles) to burn off the 1000-calories from fat just to break even on this meal. Better off to get that dish with marinara sauce and cut out most of those fat-calories altogether with the same carb & protein intake.
sounds like you agree with the idea of eating mostly carbs throughout the day and saving the protein for evening, when your body is gonna get some sleep and use it to repair itself. i'll keep at this for a while and see how it works. i don't concern myself with fats because i don't eat much fat at all. olive oil is about the only fat i regularly consume. i don't even like that plate of fettucini alfredo you talked about; i prefer the marinara sauce. heck, last time i checked my total cholesterol was below 130. now, if i could just lose the love handles.....
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Old 11-20-05, 10:42 PM
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Heh, heh... I wish I had love-handles. A long time ago, they grew into an inner-tube, then a full-fledged monster-truck tyre!!!
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Old 11-22-05, 07:02 PM
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A lot of my protein shakes after a ride, espec. if I have low blood sugar. On the other hand, the fat tends to shake during a ride, espec. on a rough surface.
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Old 11-24-05, 06:07 PM
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Pardon me, what is a marinara sauce?
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