One important thing that you forget to acknowledge when you say that our ancestors died at 45 is that this is the average age that they died at. This includes all of the infants that never made it to their first birthday and all of those that died of diseases that took fifty years off their lives that we now avoid entirely due to modern immunizations and antibiotics. If our ancestors made it thru or around these diseases, and died of "natural causes" then they lived as long as the average person does today (three score and ten).

I'd like to hear about your experience participating in bicycling on a teaspoon of sugar a day.

Tell us all Mr. Freddy, how many hours do you ride your bike each week? How often do you ride more than 5 hours in a week? How often do you ride for more than 2 hours at a time at an average pace above 16mph? How often do you ride 2-3 days in a row for a total of 5+ hours? How long were your 5 longest rides in 2005? Do you ever do what most people would call "training"?

Are you aware that fast twitch muscle strongly prefers sugars for fuel and that slow twitch muscle is better (than fast twitch) at using fat for fuel?

Do you know how many carb calories it takes to fully replenish glycogen stores and how long that takes?

I knew it... this guy is not this stupid... he is just trying to be a troll.

Well it seems as if the low carb crowd and the balanced diet people are not going to agree. In my opinion both sides have a valid argument. Personally I think we can all agree that it is better to have less fat around the belly, or where ever you store it, than to be overweight. Also I think we can all agree that riding a bike is better than not riding a bike for your health.

I can surmise that the people here are concerned for their health and willing to do something about it and that is why they are voicing their concerns. Someone pointed out that we are all different so I think that works for some may not work for others.

Although I do not wholly agree with some of your views I was glad to hear them because I have learned allot from other peoples perspectives, and I thank you all for that. Even if you guys and gals would not eat my home-made organic bread I would still love to see ya on the road and ride with you, I think I share the love of cycling with the rest of you, that’s why I am here.

If you tried my bread you would really like it even if you disliked the carbs, it is amazing.

Thank you

ok, now you are starting to torture me!!!! that sounds sooooo good!!!

C'mon just one slice it wont hurt :)

Just joking, if your way is working for you and you're feeling good about it stick with it you'll end up healthier in the end no matter how you lose the fat, well exept for taking those wierd diet pills that make your metabolism run like a car in neutral with the pedal to the floor.

yeah... :eek: just one slice.... :p one slice... :rolleyes:

I've done a raw foods diet, it's kind of been on hiatus for the winter season, but I've found it to be the most energizing. I don't really think a low carb diet is a good idea in the long run. Your body needs carbohydrates for energy, and I don't like the idea of starving myself of something that my body needs to keep me going.

No Mike, I'm not trolling. This IS a bicyclists forum, not a forum for preaching about diets that are impractical for active cyclists. If you think your diet will work for an active cyclist then let's hear your answers for the questions I posed for Mr. Freddy.

I'm a bit disappointed the word "glucuneogensis" hasn't been mentioned.

So does that word basically mean that you get your energy through metabolized protein rather from carbohydrates?

Yes I'm in training and on a high fat, moderate protein and low carb diet. Last week I rode 165 km in about 7 hours total. It's not a lot realy, I intend to do more and I did it on beater of a bike. The racer is being built now.

To start with I DON'T count carbs or anything else so no answer there. So far I've rider for about 2 hours with NO food with me and I haven't bonked or come close to it. I recover with sour, raw milk and cream and other high fat delicacy's such as chicken liver pate and I feel great. I'm developing muscles quite quickly at the moment and packing OFF the weight so so far so good. I might try adding a little more carbs as my work rate goes up but it won't need to be much.

You know I had been convinced that I needed carbs to keep cycling hard but on a few occasions that I've tried the sugary drinks it just didn't work for me. I was more likely to bonk WITH the carbs than without them.

Regards, Anthony

Sure it has, A page or 2 ago

yes mr g.... i know what the forum is about... i know you have it all figured out being that you have now been a member for a few days.... I have taken part in this forum for about a year and a half.

i will not entertain your detailed questions... my answer to them all is yes i have, and yes i do, and probably more than you. I have never experienced a "bonk" because I am past the first 2 weeks of my diet where something like that could occur. My body has adjusted to the change and my energy level is through the ruff. Oh... one more thing i should ad to your questions is I never average below 18mph.. you asked about 16. Even when i did the ms150 last year 100 miles on the first day and 75 on the second, I still averaged just under 19mph. At that time I was on a less strict low carb diet.

When did I ever say that low carbing was the most efficient form of fuel?? I am not trying to be the most efficient bicyclist at this moment! I am trying to drop 83 pounds!!!!! I feel that low carbing is the way to go to loose weight!

Look at it this way.... I have managed to store up 83 gallons of old gas in my gas tank. all that extra weight is really slowing me down. I used up the fresh gas on purpose so I would specificly begin to burn all that old gas. Sure, I won't be able to win the race of my life while trying to burn it off, but once it is gone I can use whatever fresh gas I want!!! (keep in mind, while buring off this old gas, I am still adding some fresh gas every day along the way... just not huge amounts of it)

My 7 year old son understands this story I just made up... unfortunately that does not mean that you will...

Yes it has, entry #70

Mike - The one important point that you leave out of your wonderful story is that when you were stockpiling the 83 gallons of gas, you were adding Sta-bil gas stabilizer so that it would work nearly as well when you finally decided to use it as if you had just bought it "fresh".

ah well, it didn't come up on the search function, maybe because it's underlined

I'll take a slice of that bread, with a lotta butter! just one slice tho...

as to my cycling regimen, I live in NYC, and it's kinda chilly right now for outdoor riding - I know some people like it, but not me... anway, I exercise at least one hour per day, often 90 minutes, doing a mix of indoor cycling, stairmastering, elliptical whatchmalcaiting, swimming, six days a week.. I also do a little bit of weight lifting too.... I'm just getting started so dont ask me about my performance times.... I dont know and I dont care.

anyway, my particular experience is irrelevant to the topic at hand. someone demanded some studies, so, you asked for it, you got it. this is just a small sprinkling of what I found:


http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0999.htm

http://www.springerlink.com/(5qh5yk55mzjfzcjwl2u1h1ji)/app/home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent&backto=issue,3,17;journal,28,253;linkingpublicationresults,1:400513 ,1

http://www.ms-se.com/pt/re/msse/abstract.00005768-199803000-00018.htm;jsessionid=DPzvusUzXtvrU1g75AVMy11eAn2n239u1A5hhMvoW1YcRQTHnctu!-786779307!-949856145!9001!-1

http://www.ms-se.com/pt/re/msse/abstract.00005768-200201000-00014.htm;jsessionid=DP0nF2ymsnymeu25z6wBvwUX2vcAwqsXxSUs2YySCRbE1DO4VNvw!-786779307!-949856145!9001!-1


http://www.thieme-connect.com/ejourn...9A57BB8F2.jvm2


http://www.ms-se.com/pt/re/msse/abstract.00005768-199701000-00004.htm;jsessionid=DP01QUZ12SGjiIdkEwolgvf3VpUCXR2jh37gJoBxNxZdmmXWOWz1!-786779307!-949856145!9001!-1

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Citation

Low carbohydrate eating is revolutionary. It actually was found in the 1800s by a william banting; he also under went much criticism even after much success and that is why only 150 years later was it reintroduced. Now there are disease caused by protein and fat deficiencies, but I challenge you to bring on one disease that is caused soley by a carbohydrate deficiency...can't name one? thats because there aren't any! I have never felt better and have had more energy than now. By doing a controlled carb program I have reduced my body fat from 35% to 18% and I have lost a lot of weight. Not only that but my quality of life has drastically improved. After years of falling into the low fat way of eating I have reversed the brain washing I under went as a youth and I have come out an educated, well fit young woman. Thank you for your time, and I only registered so I could make this point, as you will not see me around here.

Years ago, the Ward Nicholson articles on Beyond Veg were the first I ever read about paleo eating, and really made an impression on me. If only I had any discipline. :p

http://www.beyondveg.com/cat/paleodiet/index.shtml
http://www.beyondveg.com/

I read about paleo and I try to incorporate whole natural foods whenever possible. I just love cheese way to much to give it up

actually, no, we haven't... not in the past 10k years since organized agriculture has existed.

probably why your body had a lot of ways to keep your blood sugar up, but only one hormone, insulin, to keep it down. excess sugar intake wasn't an issue, not until 10k years ago. and it has gotten much worse in the past 100 years since we found so many ways to eat refined carbs.

you are missing the point. that body of yours is the product of thousands of years of evolution, evolution that designed your body in response to certain types of food, i.e. lots of fat and protein, very little carbs. in fact, that big brain of yours only came along after pre-humans started eating energy dense meat.

regarding bananas, I'm sure they ate the prehistoric version of bananas, when and if they could find them. but they were far less sugary than our modern bananas.

and your stance on the early death issue is just too silly to even respond to further...

I hate to use it but, according to my reading, LA uses i believe between 60-65 percent carbs in his diet, depending on what part of his four diet seasons he is in.

point being, while i'm sure some study shows that low carb/high fat can work, the mastah doesn't necessarilly use that diet and he seems to be doing just fine. I can't seem to cite any high fat low carb cyclist dropping him anytime recently but, hey, i'm new here.

well, that is a study of one subject, so the conclusions we can draw are exactly none. although I suspect Lance could have done even better if he had altered his nutritional strategy to a low carb diet while training and his usual high carb diet while racing. that is what the studies tell us.

also, the high carb diet idea is so deeply entrenched in the athletic community (just look at the vitriol in this thread alone), I'd be amazed to find a top level cyclist willing to try anything else.