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How hard can you stress the Woman's body?

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How hard can you stress the Woman's body?

Old 03-05-06, 03:50 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by mx_599
i still disagree about endurance events and this ultramarathon across the board. you isolated a single event and organization...what about internationally????

don't think you'll see that intersection in this lifetime
http://www.ultrarunning.com/ultra/reference/index.shtml - 2004 100 mile results. As you can see, men - on the upper end of the spectrum are beating the women, but on the whole the differences are fairly small, and are smaller than they were in years past.

Now, I'm not arguing that women generally faster, or even on par with men in most athletic activities. I selected ultra-running because it is one 'true' endurance sport where the difference between the sexes is pretty small.
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Old 03-05-06, 03:51 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by WarrenG
Curling is a recreational activity that does not utilize any strength nor endurance nor aerobic ability, etc..
The stones are awfully heavy...
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Old 03-05-06, 04:04 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus
The stones are awfully heavy...
They mostly just slide them...

Golf, curling, darts, bowling, billiards, shooting… Men still seem to always come out on top. Harder to explain away some of those.
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Old 03-05-06, 04:56 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus
Pam Reed won the Badwater Ultramarathon in 2002 and 2003. She set the course record in 2002.

Since then, her time has been beaten by a few men - but she is still one of the best ultra-runners, man or woman in the world.
Pam Reed won the Badwater with technology, she had a crew diligently spraying her with water to keep her core temperature down. Once the rest of the field figured out her technique, she found winning no longer possible. In 2005, she was almost 2 hours off the winning time.

Reporting about the 2003 race:

During the first 17 miles, runners are not allowed "close support," meaning no pacers are allowed to run or ride alongside their racer. While some support crews would hand their runner a water bottle every mile or two, Reed’s crew did more. "We would drive a mile up the road, then all four of us would bail out of the van," Giles explained. "One would run back a half-mile, then another would run back a quarter mile, then the other two would do the same in the other direction. Reed had a crew member handing her drinks and spraying her down with water every quarter mile. Basically, we outworked all the other support crews out there."
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Old 03-05-06, 05:25 PM
  #30  
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Women are smaller and have less muscle mass, It's okay, though, 'cuz they do tend to live longer. I've never been sure whether the whole longevity thing was because women's bodies are built for the long haul, or men are just naturally stupider...
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Old 03-05-06, 11:19 PM
  #31  
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The best women should beat 99% of all men. That's why you don't see women in the Tour de France, far less than 1% of male cylists make it in the tour.

There are physiological explanations why they can't beat ALL men, mostly oxygen consumption.

Here is a very good article explaining these things:
http://home.hia.no/~stephens/gender.htm
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Old 03-05-06, 11:57 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Katrogen
Thats fine! I am not trying to compare myself to a man as that is very bad comparison. Its not workable. I'm just curious about the limitations of the human body and being one gender or another is part of that limitation. I was wondering why and if it was possible to actually bend some 'facts' through gifted athletes.

I'm very happy with my own progress too. Sorry if this post is dumb, I'm just askin'.
Don't worry about hitting some genetic of physiological limit because of your sex. The biological and physiological differences are minor. As you can already see from some of the results posted, the top women and top men are very, very close. That's because those top women pursued strenuous and specialized training programmes just like the top men.

The main difference you see is a matter of quantity. Very, very few women even get started in individual competitive sports, compared to men. Even fewer in combative sports like boxing, karate, wrestling or fencing. That skews the numbers in the results table with A LOT more men in the top results. But that's just because there's a lot more men in that sport to begin with.

It's like when I was applying to med-school and people were wondering why there were so few women doctors. I tell them to look at the numbers of women applying to med-school to begin with, it's less than 10%. None of the girls I knew wanted to be doctors. When I said, "I'm gonna be a doctor!", the girls I knew said stuff like, "I'm gonna be a nurse!", or "I'm gonna be a dental-hygienist!". If more girls applied to med-school in the beginning, we'd have more women doctors. As it is, the ones who do apply end up doing better than the men because their graduation-rate is higher.

The differences you see in the results table isn't due to some genetic barrier, it's a statistical result that doesn't predict any individual. If you want to get strong at biking, you can be up there with the top men. You might only have to worry about that top 1% that's gonna beat you no matter what, but in a 1/2/Pro crit, that still places you in the top 3.

Last edited by DannoXYZ; 03-06-06 at 12:03 AM.
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Old 03-05-06, 11:59 PM
  #33  
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Doesn't testosterone have something to do with it? When I was into bodybuilding, it was pretty common knowledge that there was no way a woman (without steroids) was going to pack on the muscle like the men because a woman doesn't have as high a testosterone level as a man does.

Even now I have a bit of a laugh when females comment that they don't want to go to the gym to workout, or do other sorts of workouts, because they are afraid it will make them look all muscle-y like the bodybuilding males they've seen in magazines. Sorry ladies ... that just won't happen! It's unfortunate, because I'd give a lot to be able to pack on the muscle like a man can.

As for how much a woman can push herself ... that comes down to mental strength as much as anything. She can push herself as far as she wants. A woman shouldn't ease off exercise because of some misconception that she is just a female!! A female cyclist may never compete in the male Tour de France, but she can compete in the female Tour de France (I met one that did), she can compete in cycling in the Olympics, and she can get into a lot of other difficult types of cycling. Take a look at my webpage in my signature line for some examples.
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Old 03-06-06, 12:16 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
The differences you see in the results table isn't due to some genetic barrier, it's a statistical result that doesn't predict any individual. If you want to get strong at biking, you can be up there with the top men. You might only have to worry about that top 1% that's gonna beat you no matter what, but in a 1/2/Pro crit, that still places you in the top 3.
If women are placing top 3 in 1,2,pro criteriums I sure haven't seen it. I've seen some elite women racing with the guys and they're pretty much pack filler in a pro 1,2 race-maybe a top 20 placing sometimes. A few years ago we saw one of the best women racers in the US at the time do a few masters races and I think her best result was about 8th place in a road race with the 35+ guys. I now see some Cat 1/2 women in some of our 35+ criteriums and I've never seen them get near the top 10.
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Old 03-06-06, 12:41 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
Don't worry about hitting some genetic of physiological limit because of your sex. The biological and physiological differences are minor. As you can already see from some of the results posted, the top women and top men are very, very close. That's because those top women pursued strenuous and specialized training programmes just like the top men.

The main difference you see is a matter of quantity. Very, very few women even get started in individual competitive sports, compared to men. Even fewer in combative sports like boxing, karate, wrestling or fencing. That skews the numbers in the results table with A LOT more men in the top results. But that's just because there's a lot more men in that sport to begin with.

It's like when I was applying to med-school and people were wondering why there were so few women doctors. I tell them to look at the numbers of women applying to med-school to begin with, it's less than 10%. None of the girls I knew wanted to be doctors. When I said, "I'm gonna be a doctor!", the girls I knew said stuff like, "I'm gonna be a nurse!", or "I'm gonna be a dental-hygienist!". If more girls applied to med-school in the beginning, we'd have more women doctors. As it is, the ones who do apply end up doing better than the men because their graduation-rate is higher.

The differences you see in the results table isn't due to some genetic barrier, it's a statistical result that doesn't predict any individual. If you want to get strong at biking, you can be up there with the top men. You might only have to worry about that top 1% that's gonna beat you no matter what, but in a 1/2/Pro crit, that still places you in the top 3.

dude...you're still way off. yeah...pick contact sports, that's a good example

what year did you apply to med school?? it is like 50:50 now. and what are you talking about the accepted females do better??? you don't know what you're talking about!
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Old 03-06-06, 12:47 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
Don't worry about hitting some genetic of physiological limit because of your sex. The biological and physiological differences are minor. As you can already see from some of the results posted, the top women and top men are very, very close. That's because those top women pursued strenuous and specialized training programmes just like the top men.

The main difference you see is a matter of quantity. Very, very few women even get started in individual competitive sports, compared to men. Even fewer in combative sports like boxing, karate, wrestling or fencing. That skews the numbers in the results table with A LOT more men in the top results. But that's just because there's a lot more men in that sport to begin with.

It's like when I was applying to med-school and people were wondering why there were so few women doctors. I tell them to look at the numbers of women applying to med-school to begin with, it's less than 10%. None of the girls I knew wanted to be doctors. When I said, "I'm gonna be a doctor!", the girls I knew said stuff like, "I'm gonna be a nurse!", or "I'm gonna be a dental-hygienist!". If more girls applied to med-school in the beginning, we'd have more women doctors. As it is, the ones who do apply end up doing better than the men because their graduation-rate is higher.

The differences you see in the results table isn't due to some genetic barrier, it's a statistical result that doesn't predict any individual. If you want to get strong at biking, you can be up there with the top men. You might only have to worry about that top 1% that's gonna beat you no matter what, but in a 1/2/Pro crit, that still places you in the top 3.
You do realize that athletic endeavors and academic ones are not completely analogous, don't you? Women do not compete in the same class as men athletes for the same reason that short guys don't excel in the NBA, because they are physically limited. This is not sexism, just the facts. It sounds to me like you are regurgitating a lot of BS that at one time got you laid in college.

If it were really just a matter of fewer numbers of females going out for sports, you would still see a few women who rise to the top of their sport and completely dominate the men, but as of now there are none. You have used a lot of pretty words to baffle us all with bull****, but you have absolutley no proof, either from real, live athletes OR statisticians. I would not have posted on this, but it's rare that I see such PC-idiocy, couched in the language of science, on these forums, and I find it quite annoying.

To be clear, there are plenty of professional sports that have a comparable number of male and female participants, yet statistically their median times posted, scores, etcetera are not comparable. This has to do with an advantage in size, muscle mass, and the ability to gain muscle mass(testosterone,), that one sex has over the other. There aren't even any anamolous freaks-of-nature, like a female Michael Jordan or Lawrence Taylor, to cast a shadow of a doubt on this.
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Old 03-06-06, 01:17 AM
  #37  
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You could beat me, I am certain of it. Just look at the topic in my sig to understand what I mean.

I am also just tagging this topic now with this post; I will come back tomorrow and add something better. This really is a great discussion idea.
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Old 03-06-06, 03:10 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by mx_599
what year did you apply to med school?? it is like 50:50 now. and what are you talking about the accepted females do better??? you don't know what you're talking about!
I'm talking about applicants to med-school, NOT accepted ratios after the cut. If you take a look at the student-body of accepted applicants at Harvard: http://www.medicalschooladmission.com/harvard , it's 45/55% female/male. I'm going to assume that the ratios are similar at other schools. Then look at this report from another school which shows that female applicants are accepted at a rate of 2.5x higher than males: http://www.le.state.ut.us/audit/03_07rpt.pdf . Working backwards from that and you get a figure closer to 18% of all applications are female and 82% are male. The Parado Principle yet again.

It's like affirmative-action playing games with the numbers to make it look like they've got even diversity. If you've got 10,000 white applicants and 100 native-americans vying for 200 spots. And you take 100 of each to show a 50:50 ratio of accepted students, that doesn't change the fact that there's a 100:1 ratio of applicants to begin with.


Originally Posted by krispistoferson
You do realize that athletic endeavors and academic ones are not completely analogous, don't you?
I'm not comparing performance between academics and sports. I'm just illustrating how the lobsided numbers of participants involved skews the results table. Just because you've got 1 women in the top-10 doesn't mean that there's some performance barrier to women. The USCF membership shows 10% of all registered bike-racers are women. If you lump the top women in with the top men into the same race, having just 1 women in the top-10 would indicate that women are performing at the same level as men.
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Old 03-06-06, 05:45 AM
  #39  
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Katrogen: Don't listen to most of the ******bags who responded to you. It's their kind of responses that have perpetuated women's inability to catch up to and match men in physical activities. The only reason that women are not beating men is because of the role they've been placed in by society. They best they have been able to do is meet the lower expectation that society requires of them. Think about all your gym classes. Girls don't have to do as many sit-ups, don't have to run as fast, are not allowed to play on boys' teams. What, exactly, would be their motivation to meet the boys' standards if it's not required? Unfortunately, over hundreds of years, women have given in to the fact that society wants them to be small and not doing "manly" things like sports (or science). That role is starting to go away, but has a long way to go. But, to look at the bright side, tremendous successes have already been made. Already mentioned are the ultramarathoners, but look at any halfway decent female runner. She would easily beat the best male runner of 100 years ago. It's not a question of if women are going to catch men, its a question of when are the right women going to break society's standards of what women are supposed to be doing and go out and beat them. Besides this, women consistently beat men at the ultimate endurance event, life.

Take a look around the animal kingdom. Females are often larger, faster, and stronger than the males. The advantage they have, is that they don't have men touting a book written by men that says the females have to submit to their husbands.

I'll be gone for about a week and unable to respond to any "it's genetics!", "it's a FACT", "I can't believe you just blamed the Bible", or any other BS like that. I'm sure there will be plenty coming my way.

Last edited by sestivers; 03-06-06 at 05:51 AM.
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Old 03-06-06, 07:39 AM
  #40  
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I am surprised no one has mentioned the 14/ 15 year old girls who are better than most men at golf. I think girls get the raw deal with sports. Not enough love or support. But the boys, we push them through sports even when they suck. Maybe Lance's girl will go on to beat up the men?
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Old 03-06-06, 08:00 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by cod3man
I am surprised no one has mentioned the 14/ 15 year old girls who are better than most men at golf.
I thought we were talking about sports?
Anyway, y'all can lie with statistics as much as you want to, but athletics is as close to a meritocracy as there ever was or will be, so skill and talent talk, BS walks. Perhaps a female runner now could beat a male one hundered years ago, but it's still really is a non-issue if there is not even one single female who is able to compete with a male at the top of his game in any physically demanding sport.

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that after a certain level of muscular development, a woman can throw off her monthly cycle to the detriment of her health, which is relatively common in athletic endeavors where a substantial gain in muscle mass is required. Maybe it's because the PC police are all over this thread, such things are verboten. Sure in the animal kingdom, a lot of species has a larger stronger female, when I wake up as a hyena or a black widow spider, maybe I'll be watching a different NBA on the television, but until then, only tall guys need apply.

Can some of you explain to me why I can't breastfeed and bear a child? These sexists on Bikeforums keep telling me I can't. Thanks.
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Old 03-06-06, 10:35 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
Very, very few women even get started in individual competitive sports, compared to men. Even fewer in combative sports like boxing, karate, wrestling or fencing.
And that's a shame, fit women are HOT. I don't care what the basic body type is like, and some muscle and they are a 10.
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Old 03-06-06, 11:08 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by krispistoferson
Can some of you explain to me why I can't breastfeed and bear a child? These sexists on Bikeforums keep telling me I can't. Thanks.
I know of one culture where the men can breast feed thier young. You do not have to be a woman to lactate. I forget the name of the culture but I studied it in cultural anthropology. The men stay at home and raise the children while the women go out and do all the work outside of the house. It is kinda funny because the men are the ones that are concerened with thier looks and use cosmetics, and the child forms the bond with the father that one would see in western society that is usually formed with the mother.

I believe that women can compete at the same level as men. We all have simmilar DNA but different genes are expressed. Of course a woman has an X and a Y so that makes them more adaptable. I think if men and women were raised different you would see a big difference.

Of course this is just my opinion and I have not seen it for myself.

I will still have to sound sexist and say that if you are a male I do not think that you could ever bear children, but if you tried really hard you could lactate.
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Old 03-06-06, 11:26 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by akarius
I know of one culture where the men can breast feed thier young. You do not have to be a woman to lactate. I forget the name of the culture but I studied it in cultural anthropology. The men stay at home and raise the children while the women go out and do all the work outside of the house. It is kinda funny because the men are the ones that are concerened with thier looks and use cosmetics, and the child forms the bond with the father that one would see in western society that is usually formed with the mother.

I believe that women can compete at the same level as men. We all have simmilar DNA but different genes are expressed. Of course a woman has an X and a Y so that makes them more adaptable. I think if men and women were raised different you would see a big difference.

Of course this is just my opinion and I have not seen it for myself.

I will still have to sound sexist and say that if you are a male I do not think that you could ever bear children, but if you tried really hard you could lactate.
Are you sure. The more you know....
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Old 03-06-06, 11:33 AM
  #45  
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Here are some statistics for the best female cyclists in the world:

Body fat: < 10%
VO2max absolute: 4.1 L/min
VO2max mass scaled: 75 mL/kg/min
Max power to weight: 6.0 watts/kg

(Source: Baker, High-Intensity Training for Cyclists, 8th ed.)

Which of those stats compare with the best men in a category:

Body fat: Cat 3 or Masters 50
VO2max absolute: Cat 5 or Masters 70
VO2max mass scaled: Cat 2 or Masters 40
Max power to weight: Cat 2 or Masters 40

So when it comes to absolute power, women are at the greatest disadvantage to men. Simply, women just don't have the big engines and musculature that some men have.

When scaled for mass, however, women are more competitive. One could expect a woman to place higher in a climbing race with men than in a flat TT.

One disadvantage that nobody has mentioned yet is body fat. While men can perform safely with a 5% body fat, women can't go that low without health consequences. That extra 5% or more of body weight that women have to carry around is a built in disadvantage.

The differences also can't be explained by the amount of training. World class women train about 1250 hours per year, about the same as a male pro.
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Old 03-06-06, 12:50 PM
  #46  
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Uh, I'm pretty sure it's the male that has the X and the Y chromosomes. This combo is what leads to differences in primary and secondary sexual characteristics for males, differences apparently even Bikeforum's resident med-school student is unaware of. (Note to self-Never go see a doctor again.)

For what it's worth, I do consider myself a feminist, and there's not a thing a man can do in the intellectual realm that a woman can't, but I'm not a big fan of fuzzy logic and lies even if they support my own political agenda, you dig? So I'm apparently a "******bag" to some of you, but at least I don't lie. The most upsetting thing is that I am actually having this discussion with other adults. Talk about obtuse.
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Old 03-06-06, 01:51 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by akarius
Of course a woman has an X and a Y so that makes them more adaptable.
You got that half right. The woman has two full-size X chromosomes, and thus has more genes to choose from than the man, who has one X, and one stubby little Y.
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Old 03-06-06, 02:00 PM
  #48  
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On average women are smaller and less muscular than men, and will never compete on the same footing in sports where bulk and muscular strength are key. However, in endurance sports woman are slowly getting closer to men, and hypothetically, there may be some sports where a combination of a larger base population, improved opportunities and early encouragement, and perhaps some so-far underappreciated aspect of female physiology, will eventualy push women ahead of men.
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Old 03-06-06, 02:25 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by sestivers
Katrogen: Don't listen to most of the ******bags who responded to you.
MODERATOR??

who are you calling ******bag?? when you wake up from your dream and put your candyland board away you can apologize for that remark.

It's their kind of responses that have perpetuated women's inability to catch up to and match men in physical activities.
you're obviously clueless...you have no business posting in this discussion. especially no business posting with a comment like that.

The only reason that women are not beating men is because of the role they've been placed in by society.
more of a biological thing

They best they have been able to do is meet the lower expectation that society requires of them.
okay betty


Think about all your gym classes. Girls don't have to do as many sit-ups, don't have to run as fast, are not allowed to play on boys' teams. What, exactly, would be their motivation to meet the boys' standards if it's not required?
wow...smart idea. subject adolescent girls, or even boys, to standards they cannot meet and further damage their fragile self esteems. you are even more clueless than i thought. i didn't even read your whole post yet...just started responding after the ******bag comment.

Unfortunately, over hundreds of years, women have given in to the fact that society wants them to be small and not doing "manly" things like sports (or science).
oh my bad...you're right, societal pressures have changed the evolutionary course of female form over the past "hundreds" of years.

I'll be gone for about a week and unable to respond to any "it's genetics!", "it's a FACT", "I can't believe you just blamed the Bible", or any other BS like that. I'm sure there will be plenty coming my way.
you are an idiot.


why would you bring feminism into this thread?? go be bitter in the corner and read your bible


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Old 03-06-06, 02:33 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by akarius
I believe that women can compete at the same level as men. We all have simmilar DNA but different genes are expressed. Of course a woman has an X and a Y so that makes them more adaptable. I think if men and women were raised different you would see a big difference.
i noticed you are a professional student? where?? an accredited institution? what is your major?

sorry to say, that post made you come off as being very dumb...i hope its your first year in college. furthermore, for some reason, you're making Kris afraid to go see a doctor...nice.

males don't lactate sufficiently to feed a child. (why am i even wasting my time??)

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