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How hard can you stress the Woman's body?

Old 03-05-06, 12:34 PM
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Katrogen
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How hard can you stress the Woman's body?

What are the limits? Genetically why are we inferior to the male's abilities?

I push myself hard all the time because I enjoy it alot. Especially in back to back spin classes, weight lifting, running, time trials, and just any sort of energy burning activity. You see amazing displays of work in such challenges as the Tour de France and the Boston Marathon. I notice that men can put themselves under amazing stress and pain and do some incredible things. Yet you put women under that same sittuation and they don't go as far. They try as hard, they train as hard, they believe as much, they expect the same. All the same activity and challenge. Yet men go farther. Why?

Am I capable of training myself to be as elite as the top men cyclists? What stops us women? Or hinders? It's not the culture perspective anymore! I thought about this today in a 3 hour spin session. What is the obstacle be it mental or genetic?

If this offends anybody I apologize now. I'm just curious because I have this goal in my mind. I love working hard so much that I wonder if its possible if everything is in the right position no matter what body you have.
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Old 03-05-06, 12:48 PM
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I think you're talking about two different things. One is the ultimate genetic potential of the human body, which no one has achieved yet. So it's useless to debate who's got the upper hand at the theoretical genetic limit .

What most often is compared however, is how far one has progressed towards that potential. In which case, male or female doesn't really matter, it's who works harder and smarter at training. There's a couple of women who ride with the local clubs here who have no problems keeping up with the group rides, no matter how fast they go. Women with a larger percentage of lower-body muscle-mass relative to their total weight has done better in long distance endurance events than men. With a higher level of fat-metabolism as percentage of LT, they can also have more endurance as well.

What does hinder women as a group on average is lower percentage of muscle-mass relative to overall weight (higher body-fat %). This lowers power-to-weight ratio for women, putting them at a disadvantage where snappy power is required, like in sprinting and climbing. All that can be overcome easily with a training programme specifically tailored for women. This will differ from the men's training which focuses primarily on aerobic system development, while women can use more muscular and strength training.

As for women pushing themselves, there's psychological differences where women, in general, aren't as physical when it comes to competition (the basis of most sports). Whereas a lot of men will get into physical combative confrontations, women tend to be more verbal and social in their competitiveness; this is apparent in their racing strategies for those who actually get into competitive bike-racing. But there's been a lot of women racing in the men's races without any difficulty:



So to answer your question, the differences in women's achievements has little to do with genetic potentials, and more to do with training, psychology, social and organizational structures.

As for how hard you can stress a women's body...


Last edited by DannoXYZ; 03-05-06 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 03-05-06, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Katrogen
What are the limits? Genetically why are we inferior to the male's abilities?

I push myself hard all the time because I enjoy it alot. Especially in back to back spin classes, weight lifting, running, time trials, and just any sort of energy burning activity. You see amazing displays of work in such challenges as the Tour de France and the Boston Marathon. I notice that men can put themselves under amazing stress and pain and do some incredible things. Yet you put women under that same sittuation and they don't go as far. They try as hard, they train as hard, they believe as much, they expect the same. All the same activity and challenge. Yet men go farther. Why?

Am I capable of training myself to be as elite as the top men cyclists? What stops us women? Or hinders? It's not the culture perspective anymore! I thought about this today in a 3 hour spin session. What is the obstacle be it mental or genetic?

If this offends anybody I apologize now. I'm just curious because I have this goal in my mind. I love working hard so much that I wonder if its possible if everything is in the right position no matter what body you have.

lung capacity, cardiac output, hormones...main reasons females cannot compete with males

this is a silly question. it should have been fairly intuitive. you had no idea?
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Old 03-05-06, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
What most often is compared however, is how far one has progressed towards that potential. In which case, male or female doesn't really matter, it's who works harder and smarter at training.
Male/female does matter. Just look at any event (cycling, track and field, swimming, speedskating, etc.) where there are times over a fixed distance and you will see that men tend to be about 10% faster than women. Of course there are exceptions at the sub-elite level where individual genetic potential and motivation can allow an individual female to be faster than an individual male, but not among elite athletes where all the athletes are at, or very near their potential.

One major difference is that males have far more testosterone available to help recover from training, so they can, over the long-term, train harder and/or more often. This is why testosterone supplements are extremely effective aid for female athletes in many sports. From many other aspects they're a terrible thing.

Katrogen, don't be discouraged by this. It's not about being as good or better than the males, it's about pursuing your own potential. Can you be faster/stronger, more fit, etc. than you are now, or were last year?
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Old 03-05-06, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
Women with a larger percentage of lower-body muscle-mass relative to their total weight has done better in long distance endurance events than men. With a higher level of fat-metabolism as percentage of LT, they can also have more endurance as well.


All that can be overcome easily with a training programme specifically tailored for women.


But there's been a lot of women racing in the men's races without any difficulty:
what are you talking about? ...yeah, i noticed lots of women in the tour de france last year


So to answer your question, the differences in women's achievements has little to do with genetic potentials,

what???? it has everything to do with gen differences

sorry to disagree with you on most of your post...usually you seem pretty accurate on everything
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Old 03-05-06, 02:09 PM
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to be quite honest, this topic is lame. women WILL NOT EVER naturally beat men in high level athletic competitions in our lifetimes.

gee...lets make the olympics co-ed...cool
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Old 03-05-06, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by mx_599
to be quite honest, this topic is lame. women WILL NOT EVER naturally beat men in high level athletic competitions in our lifetimes.

gee...lets make the olympics co-ed...cool

The gap between women and men is closing in some sports, and there may be some endurance sports where women will eventually outperform men, in part because women arguably have a higher pain threshold than men.
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Old 03-05-06, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by cooker
The gap between women and men is closing in some sports, and there may be some endurance sports where women will eventually outperform men, in part because women arguably have a higher pain threshold than men.
right....well i plan on being on these forums for some time....you just keep me posted

the higher threshold of pain is subjective. it would never overcome the 3 main reasons i posted above
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Old 03-05-06, 02:39 PM
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Pam Reed won the Badwater Ultramarathon in 2002 and 2003. She set the course record in 2002.

Since then, her time has been beaten by a few men - but she is still one of the best ultra-runners, man or woman in the world.
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Old 03-05-06, 02:43 PM
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to the OP...sorry, i didn't know you were only 17. i shouldn't have expected to to know all this stuff. if you find it interesting, go to college and major in kinesiology/exercise science and you will have a better understanding.

i am not sexist...it's just the way it is. as others have said, strive to improve yourself. if you're going to compare yourself to others, certainly stay within your gender. it would be unfair any other way
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Old 03-05-06, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus
Pam Reed won the Badwater Ultramarathon in 2002 and 2003. She set the course record in 2002.

Since then, her time has been beaten by a few men - but she is still one of the best ultra-runners, man or woman in the world.
i am still correct
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Old 03-05-06, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mx_599
i am still correct

Would you like a cookie?

It remains a fact that at least in the sport of ultra-running, women are very nearly, if not on par with the level of male competition.

Old women at that. Just like most ultra-runners, the best are in their 40s.
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Old 03-05-06, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus
Would you like a cookie?
you can be a jerk about it all you want...won't change the biology behind the FACTS
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Old 03-05-06, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by mx_599
to the OP...sorry, i didn't know you were only 17. i shouldn't have expected to to know all this stuff. if you find it interesting, go to college and major in kinesiology/exercise science and you will have a better understanding.

i am not sexist...it's just the way it is. as others have said, strive to improve yourself. if you're going to compare yourself to others, certainly stay within your gender. it would be unfair any other way
Thats fine! I am not trying to compare myself to a man as that is very bad comparison. Its not workable. I'm just curious about the limitations of the human body and being one gender or another is part of that limitation. I was wondering why and if it was possible to actually bend some 'facts' through gifted athletes.

I'm very happy with my own progress too. Sorry if this post is dumb, I'm just askin'.
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Old 03-05-06, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by cooker
... and there may be some endurance sports where women will eventually outperform men....

Like figure skating or curling.
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Old 03-05-06, 03:19 PM
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mx_599 is bang on even if it is not the "nice" answer. Danno is just too sensitive; so he can't bring himself to say something like "men are just plain faster."

However, the training principles should almost apply equally to both sexes; just the results vary. Women do tend to put on muscle slower so a greater % of time should be spent on strength training. Same with masters men.

Here is a good battle of the sexes race:
http://www.ltftriathlon.com/website/...tion=equalizer
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Old 03-05-06, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by mx_599
you can be a jerk about it all you want...won't change the biology behind the FACTS
Refute the statement that women are on par in the sport of ultra-running, and I'll own up to being a jerk...until then, just stating the facts
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Old 03-05-06, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Yo-
Like figure skating or curling.
don't know enough about curling...but even figure skating the men pull off things the women cannot...i think. however, i guess it would depend on how you judge the skating. something like big power moves vs. i don't know...flexibility, grace, choreography
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Old 03-05-06, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus
Refute the statement that women are on par in the sport of ultra-running, and I'll own up to being a jerk...until then, just stating the facts
i don't know enough about ultra running...not afraid to admit that. but who holds the record??
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Old 03-05-06, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Enthalpic
mx_599 is bang on even if it is not the "nice" answer. Danno is just too sensitive; so he can't bring himself to say something like "men are just plain faster."

However, the training principles should almost apply equally to both sexes; just the results vary. Women do tend to put on muscle slower so a greater % of time should be spent on strength training. Same with masters men.

Here is a good battle of the sexes race:
http://www.ltftriathlon.com/website/...tion=equalizer
thanks...i wasn't trying to be nice or mean. and i didn't realize the OP was younger...nothing wrong with that, but can't expect her to know any of this through HS and probably she has not had time to read up herself yet.

agreed about training principles being about the same.
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Old 03-05-06, 03:29 PM
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Very few top athletes do ultras. The longest standard running race is the marathon; and men dominate it. Want something longer? Look at Ironman Kona or something else that actually has a prize purse.
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Old 03-05-06, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by mx_599
i don't know enough about ultra running...not afraid to admit that. but who holds the record??
As I previously posted, using Badwater because it's sort of the Boston Marathon or TdF of ultra-running women have consistently been in contention for the win, and a woman held the record in 2002 and 2003.

Now obviously, in things like power lifting and sprinting, men are far better genetically suited for competition - but in endurance athletics the difference between the sexes begins to shrink - and on the upper end of the spectrum may come close to an intersection.
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Old 03-05-06, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Katrogen
Thats fine! I am not trying to compare myself to a man as that is very bad comparison. Its not workable. I'm just curious about the limitations of the human body and being one gender or another is part of that limitation. I was wondering why and if it was possible to actually bend some 'facts' through gifted athletes.

I'm very happy with my own progress too. Sorry if this post is dumb, I'm just askin'.


i take it back....not a dumb post. what is dumb is me even engaging in a debate about this topic. off the top of my head, the major reasons are:
lung capacity differences
heart/CO differences
hormone differences

not necessarily in that order. like i believe Danno or someone else mentioned, there is a mental side too...but sorry, even that nod goes to the male gender due to hormones.
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Old 03-05-06, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus
Now obviously, in things like power lifting and sprinting, men are far better genetically suited for competition - but in endurance athletics the difference between the sexes begins to shrink - and on the upper end of the spectrum may come close to an intersection.
i still disagree about endurance events and this ultramarathon across the board. you isolated a single event and organization...what about internationally????

don't think you'll see that intersection in this lifetime
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Old 03-05-06, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mx_599
i don't know enough about ultra running...not afraid to admit that. but who holds the record??
Well, this person has picked out one event in the entire arena of ultra running. What happens when the best women in the sport are competing against the best men? How often do the top women beat the top men? How about looking at the Western States running events? No female winners there. Ironman Triathlon events? How about the Race Across America cycling event? That's about as ultra endurance as you can get.

Curling is a recreational activity that does not utilize any strength nor endurance nor aerobic ability, etc..
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