ho hum

I am considering ditching the HRM and to go on how intense the activity feels to me. Anybody else decided to do this? Why not just listen to how your body feels and push it when it feels right and rest it when it feels like it needs it.

ken cummings

I have found having a widget to nag me when I feel a little lazy keep me on track.

kuan

Because sometimes you can be tired and you want to go hard, but you will never go hard enough. When you feel too good and want to go slow you won't go slow enough.

Taking your resting HR in the morning will tell you whether you have an infection creeping up on you or if you're a little tired. Without a HRM you will find your easy workouts getting too hard, your hard workouts getting too easy. Sometimes it's a matter of 3-4 BPM. Don't get stuck in no man's land.

NoRacer

Check this article:

https://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadin...orn/power.html

This quote is an example of how RPE can be deceiving.

Pelon

Personally, I use both measures. There are days when I feel like I'm riding hard only to look down and see that my HR is way below target. When I pick up the intensity, my HR generally rises, and my perceived effort usually comes back down close to where it was before. If this doesn't happen, I take it as a sign that I'm pushing too hard. In that case, I'll back off the training a little.

spunky

You're right. You don't necessarily need a hrm to do this. I rarely use one myself. I think lots of people get too hung up on numbers. I think in some ways they can actually hinder your training if you let them. I've ridden with people that start to get worried when we're riding hard and their heart rate starts climbing going anaerobic. So they slow down rather than training their bodies to deal with the increased exertion. I do realize there are different training zones and you don't always want to ride hard. But at the same time, if you're always worried about riding near your max heart rate, you'll probably never learn to ride at that level.

All that said, I do use a hrm periodically just to check my fitness improvements over a given route. But if you train without one, you have to not only learn to ride hard when you feel good, but also push yourself when you're getting tired. Otherwise you can get stuck in no man's land.

Pat

Ho Hum,

Perceived exertion does not work really well for me. I find that sometimes, I fell as if I am working really hard but my heart rate is not that high. Other times, I feel as if I am not working so hard and my heart rate and speed are up there. So I take what I can get. I find the heart rate is a nice corrective or help in interpreting my perceived exertion. Of course, if you don't want to fool with a heart rate monitor, you can do with out it.

ho hum

https://physiotherapy.curtin.edu.au/r...exhr.cfm?print

What do you make of this?

ho hum

Heart rate can be deceiving too. I've been working on intervals and noticing that my heart rate won't get where I want it very easily on the first of my 2 X 20's and then it is easier to get it up on the second one. Now, I've been thinking that I must be exhausting a reserve of buffering, oxygen use (call it whatever you want) and that the second 2 X 20 probablly isn't any better for me than the first because I've now entered a different physiologic state. Today I rode my route doing only RPE and not monitoring my heartrate and I still finished within 50 seconds of my all time best. My best was done doing a LT test as described on the forum. I have no idea what my heart rate was.

I can't afford a power meter right now. I've got to put a new roof on the house and I am finding that I get too caught up with the numbers on the HRM.

With out using a power meter, can you learn to 'husband' your strength for a particular ride if you are familiar with the course?

NoRacer

I agree with that, but if you don't have access to a power meter, an HRM is the next best thing. (in the slowtwitch article, power meter & HRM was used concurrently)

Use RPE if you have neither of the other two.

ericgu

I've trained without a HRM, and trained with one.

For me, there are two big benefits. The first is that I can more easily keep myself from pushing too hard. This is especially true if I'm tapering before a century or something - if I've trained right, I should be feeling very strong then, but I don't want to waste my strength on a short ride.

The second use is to accurately hit a good training range for higher exertion.

I don't find RPE to as accurate, though HR obviously isn't as accurate as power. I did a fitness test last Saturday, and the first interval didn't go very well because I hadn't ridden at really high heart rate for a number of weeks.

Most of my analysis, however, I do after the ride when I download and look at the data. If I spent a little bit too much time a too high a heart rate, I'll think about how that effects the rest of my training (maybe I ride a bit easier on the next workout). It doesn't keep me from launching a flyer on a nice descent, like I did last night.

spunky

Yes. It just takes time to learn how to listen to your body and understand what it's telling you.

But you're not taking into account the mental aspects of training. Maybe physiologically you're not getting as much benefit from the second set, but you're also training your mind to deal with the physical discomfort of repeated intervals at levels of high exertion. If you back off just because your hrm says your body isn't primed for it, than you can set a pattern in your mind, which the body eventually adapts to, of always easing off the second set. The body adapts to the types of stresses put upon it and also responds to your state of mind. Don't get me wrong. I'm not opposed to hrm's; I just think that some people let them control too much of their training.

ho hum

I agree with you. I had asked earlier (in a previous post) why my body took so long to warm up. When I did my 2 X 20 test I found that my heart rate to train just below LT was 142. Yet, I find it difficult to get it there on the first 20 minute pace ride. I can get it to around 130 and then on the second one, I am able to sustain a higher heart rate. I think that can be attributed to 1) I am too lazy and not pushing hard enough on the first; or, 2) I have about a 30 minute buffering capacity to deal with increased oxygen use and after that my heart rate goes up to compensate for the buildup of lactic acid; or 3) I just need to take longer to warm up. I prefer to attribute it to the first or third.

I feel like that when I use my HRM I cannot meet what I need to on my first 2 X 20. Some would just say to take longer to warm up and then to do both 2 X 20's after the warm up of say, 30-40 minutes. I don't always have that much time in my day to spend warming up and only have around an hour and a half to ride.

I started doing 2 X 20's with a 10 minute warm up 20 minute pace, 10 minute rest, 20 minute pace and 10 minute warm down. I figured I would be able to make my rides more efficient and focus on increasing speed and power. I have found that they are working for these purposes and my times are getting better on my course. However, as I stated before, my heart rate is not getting to the zone I want it to in the first.

So, I have to decide to either 1) warm up longer, 2) ignore the fact that my heart rate is not where I think it should be in the first 2 X 20 and see the obvious fact that I am getting faster; or, 3) push harder sooner and quit going on how I feel when I do that.

spunky

I think all three of these are good points and you know your body better than anyone else.
I would argue that it's a good thing that on the first set you're able to perform at the same level (speed) as the second set but with a lower heart rate. I interpret that to mean that your cardio system is getting stronger. Your body is getting more efficient and can now deliver a given amount of power with less demand on the heart and lungs.....most likely. It's not totally proven without a power meter. I've noticed the same results with my own training. On a certain hill climb, several months ago, I used to peak at 198 bpm. Now I'm a mph or two faster, on the same bike and my hr tops at 192. So now the question becomes, do you continue to ride at this new level, or do you push yourself a bit harder to get beyond the plateu you may be coming to? It never gets easier...you just keep increasing your capacity for suffering.