little sprinting allot better than allot of slow
11-04-06, 06:46 PM
#1
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little sprinting allot better than allot of slow
"These data suggest that high-intensity training is more effective in improving cardiorespiratory fitness than moderate-intensity training of equal energy cost. These data also suggest that changes in coronary heart disease risk factors are influenced by exercise intensity"
"In conclusion, this study showed that moderate-intensity aerobic training that improves the maximal aerobic power does not change anaerobic capacity and that adequate high-intensity intermittent training may improve both anaerobic and aerobic energy supplying systems significantly, probably through imposing intensive stimuli on both systems"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum
https://jap.physiology.org/cgi/conten...resourcetype=1
"In conclusion, this study showed that moderate-intensity aerobic training that improves the maximal aerobic power does not change anaerobic capacity and that adequate high-intensity intermittent training may improve both anaerobic and aerobic energy supplying systems significantly, probably through imposing intensive stimuli on both systems"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum
https://jap.physiology.org/cgi/conten...resourcetype=1
11-04-06, 07:01 PM
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I think the key words here are:
But, if you were to do long rides at your best pace for the distance, your energy cost would be higher, your ride would be "high aerobic", and you would not be able to do the same amount of work if it were all high-intensity.
Of course, this all depends on whether you are a road racer, crit racer, mountain biker, or track specialist. Whatever the case, you need to provide training that is specific to the discipline.
These data suggest that high-intensity training is more effective in improving cardiorespiratory fitness than moderate-intensity training of equal energy cost.
Of course, this all depends on whether you are a road racer, crit racer, mountain biker, or track specialist. Whatever the case, you need to provide training that is specific to the discipline.
11-04-06, 09:05 PM
#3
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"of equal energy cost"
good luck burning as many calories doing vo2 max intervals as you could on a moderate 3 hour ride and not devouring an entire mcdonald's afterwards.
THat being said, I'm a huge fan of using more intense excercise both during the off season for competitive cyclists and for general health reasons in the general population
good luck burning as many calories doing vo2 max intervals as you could on a moderate 3 hour ride and not devouring an entire mcdonald's afterwards.
THat being said, I'm a huge fan of using more intense excercise both during the off season for competitive cyclists and for general health reasons in the general population
11-04-06, 10:16 PM
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"good luck burning as many calories doing vo2 max intervals as you could on a moderate 3 hour ride"
what about the calories burned over the next 24 hr period? gotta factor that in.
what about the calories burned over the next 24 hr period? gotta factor that in.
11-05-06, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by kmckay
"good luck burning as many calories doing vo2 max intervals as you could on a moderate 3 hour ride"
what about the calories burned over the next 24 hr period? gotta factor that in.
what about the calories burned over the next 24 hr period? gotta factor that in.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_...en_consumption
Size of the EPOC effect
Studies show that the EPOC effect exists after both anaerobic exercise and aerobic exercise, but all studies comparing the two show that anaerobic exercise increases EPOC more than aerobic exercise does. For exercise regimens of comparable duration and intensity, aerobic exercise burns more calories during the exercise itself [1], but the difference is partly offset by the higher increase in caloric expenditure that occurs during the EPOC phase after anaerobic exercise. Anaerobic exercise in the form of high intensity interval training was also found in one study to result in greater loss of subcutaneous fat, even though the subjects expended fewer than half as many calories during exercise.[2] Whether this result was caused by the EPOC effect has not been established, and the caloric content of the participants' diet was not controlled during this particular study period.
In their 2004 survey of the relevant literature, Meirelles and Gomes found: "In summary, EPOC resulting from a single resistance exercise session does not represent a great impact on energy balance; however, its cumulative effect may be relevant.". This is echoed by Reynolds and Kravitz in their survey of the literature where they remarked: "However, it should be emphasized that the overall weight-control benefits of EPOC, for men and women, from participation in resistance exercise occur over a significant time period, since kilocalories are expended at a low rate in the individual postexercise sessions."
What is clear is that the EPOC effect is greater the greater the intensity of the exercise and the greater the time spent during the exercise phase. Most studies found a linear relationship with time of exercise and the effect. One found a curvilinear relationship between the intensity and the EPOC effect, though others found a linear relationship.
Studies show that the EPOC effect exists after both anaerobic exercise and aerobic exercise, but all studies comparing the two show that anaerobic exercise increases EPOC more than aerobic exercise does. For exercise regimens of comparable duration and intensity, aerobic exercise burns more calories during the exercise itself [1], but the difference is partly offset by the higher increase in caloric expenditure that occurs during the EPOC phase after anaerobic exercise. Anaerobic exercise in the form of high intensity interval training was also found in one study to result in greater loss of subcutaneous fat, even though the subjects expended fewer than half as many calories during exercise.[2] Whether this result was caused by the EPOC effect has not been established, and the caloric content of the participants' diet was not controlled during this particular study period.
In their 2004 survey of the relevant literature, Meirelles and Gomes found: "In summary, EPOC resulting from a single resistance exercise session does not represent a great impact on energy balance; however, its cumulative effect may be relevant.". This is echoed by Reynolds and Kravitz in their survey of the literature where they remarked: "However, it should be emphasized that the overall weight-control benefits of EPOC, for men and women, from participation in resistance exercise occur over a significant time period, since kilocalories are expended at a low rate in the individual postexercise sessions."
What is clear is that the EPOC effect is greater the greater the intensity of the exercise and the greater the time spent during the exercise phase. Most studies found a linear relationship with time of exercise and the effect. One found a curvilinear relationship between the intensity and the EPOC effect, though others found a linear relationship.
11-05-06, 09:20 AM
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11-05-06, 10:09 PM
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Nothing new, HIT has been de-rigeur in bike-racing for as long as it's been around, over 100-years. The thing you have to consider is the goal & purpose of training. Not every athlete has the same goal. Some people want to win ultra-endurance events, others need to work on mental strategies and tactics, some need outright raw power-output, others need to lose weight.
As NoRacer's post indicated, "it depends" is typically the real answer. While doing a quick hour of HIT may lead to an extra 15% more calories being burned off over the course of 24-hours (compared to a sedentary no-exercise subject). But doing 1-hour of endurance-pace riding is for recovery isn't an accurate comparison like they did in that study. A real 3-4 hours of LSD endurance ride at 10% below LT will have burned off 150-200% more calories than the sedentary subject AND the sprint/interval workout.
Doing sprints and intervals all the time isn't the "ultimate workout" and neither is doing pure LSD either. No one can do these rides exclusively day-after-day and not burn out physically and mentally. You have to do ALL the various types of workouts possible, sprints, intervals, tempo, LSD, hillclimbs, recovery, etc in order to improve fitness as quickly as possible. The science in training is developing just the right mix of these workouts on an optimized schedule.
However, it is true that a lot of beginning riders get trapped into "no mans land" of training where they're not riding hard enough and not riding far enough. Doing 1.0-1.5 hours of steady-state riding right at your LT isn't the most effective training possible You sacrifice quick improvement in max- and anaerobic-power as well as recovery from those efforts and you won't have any endurance either. The magic formulae for a lot of people is to do more intensity and more distance, just not at the same time on the same day....
As NoRacer's post indicated, "it depends" is typically the real answer. While doing a quick hour of HIT may lead to an extra 15% more calories being burned off over the course of 24-hours (compared to a sedentary no-exercise subject). But doing 1-hour of endurance-pace riding is for recovery isn't an accurate comparison like they did in that study. A real 3-4 hours of LSD endurance ride at 10% below LT will have burned off 150-200% more calories than the sedentary subject AND the sprint/interval workout.
Doing sprints and intervals all the time isn't the "ultimate workout" and neither is doing pure LSD either. No one can do these rides exclusively day-after-day and not burn out physically and mentally. You have to do ALL the various types of workouts possible, sprints, intervals, tempo, LSD, hillclimbs, recovery, etc in order to improve fitness as quickly as possible. The science in training is developing just the right mix of these workouts on an optimized schedule.
However, it is true that a lot of beginning riders get trapped into "no mans land" of training where they're not riding hard enough and not riding far enough. Doing 1.0-1.5 hours of steady-state riding right at your LT isn't the most effective training possible You sacrifice quick improvement in max- and anaerobic-power as well as recovery from those efforts and you won't have any endurance either. The magic formulae for a lot of people is to do more intensity and more distance, just not at the same time on the same day....
Last edited by DannoXYZ; 11-09-06 at 12:09 AM.
11-06-06, 09:13 AM
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How about doing a 30-40 mile ride followed by 1/4 mile sprints? 
Me and my friends do that occasionally. We'll do a nice long route (not easy, but long usually with hills) then we'll race down the street in front of his house (slightly uphill).
Usually my legs are hurting so badly after the 2nd or 3rd race that all i wanna do is lay on the driveway in the fetal position and groan...
Me and my friends do that occasionally. We'll do a nice long route (not easy, but long usually with hills) then we'll race down the street in front of his house (slightly uphill).Usually my legs are hurting so badly after the 2nd or 3rd race that all i wanna do is lay on the driveway in the fetal position and groan...
11-06-06, 11:09 AM
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You can't spell a lot. Yet, you are critically evaluating scientific literature.
11-07-06, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by slowandsteady
You can't spell a lot. Yet, you are critically evaluating scientific literature.
11-07-06, 11:10 AM
#11
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Back in the 70's I bought into the LSD training scenario big time. I recall an article in Bike World with a graph that showed how a greater and more consistent improvement over time could be had by LSD training over intervals. Upon reflection, I am pretty sure the author made up the graph with "typical" data points. What a load of crap. The only times I did well in races (junior and Senior 3) was when I did some intervals and hill intervals during the previous weeks.
EDIT I think it was Winning, not Bike World
EDIT I think it was Winning, not Bike World
Last edited by howsteepisit; 11-07-06 at 11:48 AM.
11-07-06, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by kmckay
You should turn your avatar around
Anyway, with regards to the thread. I think studies like this are meaningless. Training only at high intensity, or low intensity never yeilds the best results. A mixture of both has always been proven to give the best. This is a good reason why Soccer players have great bodies, can run miles, and sprint fast as hell.
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11-08-06, 12:25 AM
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'Science' may say that best is high intentisty, but if your goal is BPB brevet, time in saddle long rides will be better. As Danno stated, depends on the goal.
11-08-06, 03:00 PM
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I agree that for increasing your performance, high intensity training is very effective. But as the years go by, do you really feel like going out and doing painful interval after interval after interval? Don't we do this, at least in part, to enjoy it? I have seen quite a few "no pain, no gain" types drop out after a few years. It is best to do a judicious mix.
Also quantity has a certain quality all its own. I knew a postal worker who walked his route. Delivering letters by walking is not exactly high intensity but you figure he was getting almost 30 hours per week of aerbobic exercise before he started training. That was quite a jump on us desk bound types. Lord, he was something on the bike.
Also quantity has a certain quality all its own. I knew a postal worker who walked his route. Delivering letters by walking is not exactly high intensity but you figure he was getting almost 30 hours per week of aerbobic exercise before he started training. That was quite a jump on us desk bound types. Lord, he was something on the bike.
11-09-06, 08:17 AM
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It's the age-old training question: How to get maximum benefit for a given quantity of training.
First of all, understand these studies want to reflect and amplify the idea that various short term bursts of exercise at higher intensity produce greater health benefits, not necessarily increased fitness for a particular task. (for any given time spent on exercise) Health and fitness are separate characteristics.
Essentially, increased exercise capacity tracks more closely to health at the "bottom" of any measurable health spectrum, but eventually additional low-intensity training load plays an increasing role in producing even greater, healthier aspects in the other end of the "health spectrum."
The best examples of this concept are many of the primitive cultures throughout the world that have populations living to 100+ years of age without ever using HR monitors or interval training. However, these people often endure very strenuous, nearly continuous daily activities.
First of all, understand these studies want to reflect and amplify the idea that various short term bursts of exercise at higher intensity produce greater health benefits, not necessarily increased fitness for a particular task. (for any given time spent on exercise) Health and fitness are separate characteristics.
Essentially, increased exercise capacity tracks more closely to health at the "bottom" of any measurable health spectrum, but eventually additional low-intensity training load plays an increasing role in producing even greater, healthier aspects in the other end of the "health spectrum."
The best examples of this concept are many of the primitive cultures throughout the world that have populations living to 100+ years of age without ever using HR monitors or interval training. However, these people often endure very strenuous, nearly continuous daily activities.
11-11-06, 09:30 AM
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