Low Carb Diet - Biking?
 

Hey folks! Haven't been here in a while but with summer just 'round the corner--biking is on my mind. I've been on the Atkins diet for a few weeks now and wondering how can I train and ride for endurance without carb loading. (I have some pounds to lose). I fear I'll bonk...


Any suggestions?

Sarah:rolleyes:

Welcome back.
Hope it wasn't something we said.

I'm no expert on this one, but if you
are doing light training you should be ok.
I believe there was some discussion (search for Atkins?)
about increasing carbs before long/strenuous rides.

there, wasn't that noncommital?

Marty

Hi Marty...nope, nothin' you said...I just got side tracked with 'stuff' ... work, husband, house, the usual life stuff. Now I'm looking forward to some biking --my time.
I've been spinning all winter but look forward to the warmer days when I can get out a bit on the real thing.

My own opinion is the more you ride, the more carbs you need for the energy. I'm also not convinced that taking carbs out of one's diet is a particularly healthy way to go about losing weight, especially not in the long term.

i really agree with what chris said. i know people are seeing positive results from this diet, but what is happening is your body is going into citosis, which completely changes the way it burns food, turns it to energy, etc. the long term effect may not be as pleasant as the short term weight loss you might find. we do eat way too many refined carbs and starches in the western world, but the more you exercise, the more carbs you need. i would suggest changing which types of carbs you consume to include mostly whole grains, and high energy carbs... and riding as much as you can!!
by the way, i guess dr. atkins himself recently had a strange sort of heart attack, but won't admit that it had anything to do with his diet.

Great post!

Chris is right. I actually attended a conference on diabetes (I was covering it for a newsletter). ONe of the speakers was a doctor who spoke about diabetics and carbohydrates. He was asked about these low-carb diets by one of the audience. Now, of course, he was talking about diabetics specifically, but he said that these low carb diets work for anyone because when you eliminate carbs you have fewer foods to choose from. So of course you lose weight, because you restrict your food choices. However, he said that it doesn't work in the long term, and he meant for anyone, not just diabetics. Most of the weight you lose initially is water, anyways. And of course for diabetics it's no good because it doesn't teach healthy eating. I'm suspicious of those diets as well. You may lose weight right off the bat but most of it is water anyways.

I suggest you modify the diet to load but not overload carbs when your activity level is high and cut back when it is low.The idea is to eat only enough to keep your muscle storage carb levels topped to avoid complete depletion of the stores during training .This way you will still be able to burn fat during endurance training without bonking.See the discussion in the thread on Power gel vs. powerbars started by Justen below for some discussion on how to train this way.

Bbmoozer, The Adkins diet works fine if you are very over weight. I know I lost 50 lbs on it last year! I take it you have read the book? Go to a drug store and ask for "Ketostix" so you can monitor your ketones you don't want to be pushing your levels into the 3+ levels. Drink lots of water and then learn how to use carbs for you and not be a slave to the carbs. You WILL bonk if you try long rides without eating carbs:rolleyes: I know! You will have to add carbs back into your diet at some time, it is not ment to be a long term life style. Use foods with low glycemic indexes.
The more you exersize, the less effect insulen resistance has on your body. Your cells need them to make energy. You can burn fat but remember to go for longer, less intense rides.

Adkins works, just don't push it too far.

Great posts! Thanks. Yeah, I won't do this forever. I love my bagels and pasta too much..not to mention taters! :p Pancakes, ice cream.... mmmm... guess I'll find a happy medium once I get the initial weight off.

Just remember, carbs aren't bad for you (as i'm sure you know) and as long as you have the activity level to burn them off you'll be fine. Pancakes, ice cream, potatoes... i dunno about that stuff, that's the wrong type of carbs ;) My opinion is and probably always will be there is no quick fix, diets aren't the way to go. Lifestyle changes are. The way i see it diets force you into a lifestyle that does not work for most people, which is why they drop it. Find what works for you, for me it's excercising almost everyday and keeping within moderate diet, i don't count calories, i eat some junk food, and i seem to be doing pretty good considering i've never had a high metabolism or a low one either. If i didn't work out guarenteed i'd be bigger ;) Also how can you train for endurance if the energy isn't there for your muscles? Anyways, find what works for you.

Hi ya Gonzo...yeah, if I could I would be out there everyday working out...and I try to vary it all adding yoga/ weights...but I do travel occassionally for work and that throws major kaos into a workout schedule.
As for training and getting energy, I was hoping that the body would go for the stored fat to burn if there were no carbs readily available. However, I think that process takes longer than just getting it from food (carbs) ingested. And yeah, complex carbs like whole grains are better than overprocessed things like bagels for weight conscious folks.
:)

carbs arn't bad... you really need carbs

from everything I've read it says just to exercise and limit the amount of fat you ingest...

it takes a 3500 calorie deficit to lose 1 lb

so, 500 calorie deficit a day and you've lost a 1lb that week (meaning you burn 500 more calories a day than you consume)

you can do that with eating less but th ebest way is to eat slightly less and exercise (cardiovascular exercise)

this will get your metabolism up and make you healthier

carbs give you the energy that you need to exercise

if you didn't eat anything and tried to exercise you'll bonk and it'd be a waste... but if you ate your carbs and had energy you could exercise all day, and that's better for you (well not all day literally but exercise is better for you)

you don't want to lose more than 2lbs a week, so you'd never want more than a 1000 calorie deficit a week

I've lost 35 lbs and I've kept it off for a few years, so this strategy has worked for me. I just cut out things like whole milk (drink skim now), butter, sugar on my cereal, mayonaise, soda

just remember, "carbs are the fuel for the flame on which fat burns"

My personal experience - I lost 80 lbs with a low carb diet and and a bicycle. It is possible to keep yourself out of ketosis and still lose weight. In fact many of the low-carb plans don't recommend ketosis at all.

It's important to drink plenty of water since a low-carb diet in naturally dieuretic. Also, try to eat your carbs immediately after exercise. If you'regoing to do endurance rides lasting longer than an hour, your going to have to keep some muscle glycogen or you'll end up going everywhere at about 12 mph. Trust me on this one.

After a few weeks of riding on the Atkins diet, I felt that my body naturally turned to fat for power rather than draining all my muscle glycogen. As long as I stayed below my anerobic threshold (heart rate) I was fine, even without eating pasta every day. I easily managed to ride 140 plus miles a week while eating low carb.

Of course, YMMV

Peace,
Lou

first of all, the reason you lose so much weight in the first stages of the adkins diet is because each gram of carb is stored in your
muscle with 3 grams of water. i suppose you could call the diet a natural diuretic, but there is nothing natural about cutting out a food group or severly limiting a food group, especially when you ride. so it is definitely true that you lose water, and lots of it.

secondly, ANYTHING you eat in excess is going to be stored as fat. your body processes protein slowly, in turn, your kidneys have to work 3 times as hard to excrete waste product in your urine. i don't know about you guys, but the last thing i want to do is tax my kidneys into doing more work than they have to.

true still, white flour, refined carbs are sort of the norm for the american diet.

whole wheat, whole grain, brown rice have been proven to digest slowly and do not raise blood glucose levels, and insulin levels at such a rapid pace.

as Chris Charmichael says: "take a hint from the europeans, don't cook your pasta until it is mushy. Al Dente is the way to go, so the pasta is chewy.

You will start burning more fat if readily available carbs(blood sugar)are not available but you risk shutting off fat burning and bonking if backup/storage carbs get totally depleted.A lot of the value IMO of keto diets is getting people off of overeating and constantly craving carbs cold turkey and learning dicipline in their diet.I'm a little concerned you may not quite be there yet and may risk going back to where you were if you start adding too many carbs back in.IMO it is better too err on the side of too few carbs rather than too many(assuming you do not have the time to burn them off).As uciflylow alluded to those with alot of weight to lose do better with lower carb levels and larger calorie deficits as it is when your fat levels get lower that the body starts trying harder to hold on to it for survival purposes.I suggest you start out continuing to err on the lower(carb) side and then if needed gradually start adding in some low glycemic sources(such as oatmeal) in a diciplined controlled fashion.Good Luck

RWTD you said alot!:p I lost the first 50 lbs over the last year and when I started to bike over long distances I had to add carbs back. I still rarly eat white bread, potatos, white rice, sugar on anything, or eat candy. Notice I said I rarly eat these things, not never! The advice about breaking the hold carbs have on your eating habbits is o so true! I think it takes about 4-6 months to make the break.
Just use your head! If you are a dedicated racer you will naturally eat differently than most every day bike riders. Adjust your intake to match your out put and you'll be fine.

I would like to suggest that you find a vitamin plan that works for you also. I had some muscle cramps before I started to take supplements.

Thanks everyone for the replies.
I won't get too crazy with the carb cutting, it is certainly helpful in jump starting the weight loss! wow! But, long term I'll even it out and add some complex carbs/fruit etc...

But for long rides, any suggestions on a quick snack that is low in carbs --- or is that a myth for endurance riding?? Am I still to eat pretzels, energy bars, fig newtons etc...

Amerpie and spinner1 is right. drink heavily because there are rampant reports of kidney stone formation (due to increase in oxalate in the diet and forming calcium oxlate stones) on this diet in the medical literature. High protein diets and dehydration are the two most common triggers of calicium oxalate kidney stones so if you are an athlete following the atkins diet you have to be very careful. Probably a better high protien to low carbohydrate ration diet that is a little less extreme and more safe is the Zone diet by Barrry Sears Phd in nutriiton from MIT. Trust me, most MDs do not get alot of nutritional education in the standard medical education so I trust a nutritionist over a physician anytime.

Try nuts for slower paced endurance type rides.Personally I like pitashios (unshelled and lightly salted)on a long ride as they even have more protein and a few more carbs than most nuts.You can combine in a trail mix with dried fruit and dried coconut if you want to add a few more carbs.Apricot is a good fruit to use as its low glycemic and extremely high in potassium an electrolyte important during long rides(a little sodium from the nuts helps to balance the potassium).The unsaturated fats from the nuts and MCT's from the coconut actually help in training you body to use fat as fuel just don't overdo it caloriewise.The unshelled pitashios tend to encourage you to not overeat due to the effort to shell them before eating.

Thanks RWTD...whats that stand for anyhow??:confused:

Love those pistacios! mmm mmmm! Apricots are great too. Trail mix idea - great! thanks!

ucifly is right, for sure, I can see diets like Atkins being good if you're overweight, it gives you a jumpstart and you can lose some weight, and that can really motivate you. But you have to eat healthy once you start losing weight, not just eliminate carbs. It has to be a lifestyle change, not a diet. But we're all cyclists here, not couch potatoes, so we all know the value of exercise. I think the key is instead of thinking of yourself as trying to lose weight or being on a diet, think of yourself as always being in training.

Contrary to popular belief, the Atkins diet does not advocate eliminating carbs. In fact, if you follow the program outlined in the book, you will end up eating more vegetables than the average American. What you give up is sugar, white rice, refined flour and other simple carbohydrates.

Additionally, you can follow this diet without eating lots of high-fat meats. Results are easy to get on poultry and fish.

Another key for me was a smart program of dietary supplements, also a recommendation of Dr. Atkins.

MCT stands for medium chain triglyerides which is a type of saturated fat that is not stored easily but preferentially used for fuel.It can be found in supplement form as MCT oil and was marketed to bodybuilders for awhile as a substitute for carbs but never really caught on widespread probable due to the fear/lack of understanding of fat these days as well as the high price.As the MCT oil is usually just coconut oil anyway that is why I suggested and use myself dried coconut(plus it goes great with the apricots/trail mix).A concern I have with the Atkins diet (and I will say I have not read the book)is the food choices within the protein/fat category I hear promoted are not balanced and healthy longterm but appear designed to appeal to the masses as they can now eat all they want of certain foods.I still think the fats should be mostly unsaturated largely monosaturated with the polyunsaturates unrefined and balanced as to omega 6/3 and saturated fats held to around a quarter of total fats.All the fats I mentioned are good not bad(in unrefined form)but the proper ratio is very important and often out of balance in our food choices today due to modern agricultural techniques making it a real challenge to get the fat ratios correct.amerpie makes some good points so adapt the diet to fit your needs as to healthy food choices long term so that when you gradually add some unrefined grains back in for energy you have a balanced longterm diet. P.S. I just realized you were probably refering to my name .That refers to running with someone or another but I can't tell you who I really am lol.Seriously it came from a trail name I got from two girls "Running with the Backpack" because I liked to run down steep mtns. in full backpack gear(you can probably tell I am not an ultralightweighter).I would keep passing them in the pouring rain and then stop to rest and let them get back ahead and start over again.We had an interesting time at the shelter that evening probably part of the reason I like the Hot Springs N.C. area so much.I originally meant to type in RWTB but keyed it in wrong and couldn't figure out how to change it.

RWTD you are right to be a little skeptical about the atkins. There is no doubt it helps with weight loss in the immediate short term trial.. as I mentioned in a previous post, there has been numerous complications associated with the atkins in the medical literature:

1 High rates of nephrolithiasis (kidney stones) and gall stones.
2 High rates of interstial nephritis associated with the high protein content especially in diabetics or glucose intolerant individual
3 There is an initial drop in calories on the atkins diet then a increase in total calories (the ratios are unfavorable probably due to the disproportion of the right kind of fats as you were alluding to.)

the list goes on. This may be due to the fact that most people do not follow his recommendations of adequate hydration and supplementation, but we don't really know since there are no double blinded placebo controlled trials that would confirm this.