jorpe

My riding time is seriously compromised by doing squats and deadlifts 3x a week while strength training. I'm wondering if anyone else does any olympic lifting while cross training?

in sport,

jorpe

aikigreg

I squat and DL religiously, but I don't do them 3 x per week - that's insane to do during riding season. Depending on my in-season training split, I either do quad-based on mondays and hamstring based on tuesdays, or I squat and dead mon. and wed. and leave thurs-fri to recover fully. In-season I just try to maintain strength, not increase it, because to do otherwise is counterproductive to BOTH lifting nd biking. One session per muscle group per week, if done correctly, is enough to maintain strength.

Currently I'm doing a heavy squat and dl session on Mondays and a light speed session for both on Wed. I'm fully recovered by Sat.

jorpe

right on, I'm just trying to get back in shape. I've lost almost 35 lbs since moving to Colorado. I'm doing a 5x5 routine. I'm not seriously into cycling yet since I dont have a road bike, I just ride through Denver on my cannondaleF400. I'm looking for a road bike though!

veloGeezer

I used to do dead lifts and squats when I was younger. My dad did amature power lifting competitions when I was growing up and he got me into it. I threw around big iron for 20 years. What do you want to know?

if you are wondering if I thought it was hard to ride the day after heavy squats the answer is "yes"

terrymorse 

A buddy of mine does squat lifts regularly. He has pretty massive quads and weighs 40 lbs more than I do.

While I always outclimb him on longer duration efforts, he can wipe me out on short blasts of a minute or two, and I rarely hear him say that his legs are tired.

ranger5oh

I squat and deadlift 2x per week. Doesnt seem to really affect my riding at all. It did at first, but now I just think my body adapted to it.

veloGeezer

just out of curiosity, any of you guys doing squats working with more than twice your body weight?

aikigreg

5x5 and 10x3 are the two parameters I prescibe my clients who want to get S-T-R-O-N-G. They are the mecca of strength, IMO.

aikigreg

Deadlift is 2.5 times BW. However, I don't back squat anymore. Deadlifts give me all the hamstring strength I need, and back squats work the same muscles, so I don't like to overlap.

Instead I front squat, which you can't use nearly the same weight. My back squat would be close to 2x BW but my front squat is about 10% shy of BW right now. This is for my 5 rep max of course, I don't load for anything heavier than a 5RM.

sonyaj87@hotmai

Has anyone tried to lighting the load? I've been doing sqauts and "good morning" with light weights with 12-15 reps. 2-3 sets. So far I found that it has increase my strenth with out building muscle and it doesn't take as long to recover. This was a tip I got from a friend and so far it's working out for me. And I was a person that didn't want to do legs at all because they never seemed to recover fullly. I did lungs once without wieght and it jacked me up. It almost felt like I was starting over

veloGeezer

just curious. I saw where guys were saying that thier legs didn't bother them the next day after squatting.



A free weight competition squat in correct form at 2xBW+ and your legs don't beg for mercy the next day?

All I can say is , Salut! You're a lucky guy. One in a million.

veloGeezer

I couldn't agree more. Especially if you are going to be on the bike, too. Its like you have a $10 bill you can spend on recovery and heavy squats cost 8 bucks and leave you with two bucks left to ride with.

my caveat is that while I spent 20 years in gyms, it was something me and my dad did together. I don't lift much anymore. This spring I'm just cycling and doing some pushups and situps

aikigreg

12-15 is at the extreme range of hypertrophy. Which means that unless you're a newbie, you're not gaining much in the way of strength, although you can gain some mass provided you're in a hypercaloric state and not doing much on the bike. You want to work the muscles hard and quickly - that fast recovery rate is counterproductive to true strength gains.

That said, you've got to be realistic with the weight when you work heavy. That dude benching 215 and bouncing it off his chest is really only capable of benching 175. Much better to get the ego out of the way and LIFT CORRECTLY.

aikigreg

Their legs don't bother them because they're using light weight and probably only squatting 1/4 of the way down. At the gym I see 1 out of 10 squatting with correct form and depth. MAYBE.

The nice thing about doing front squats is that I can touch my hamstrings to my calves and still have 100% correct posture, which decreases risk to the spine. When I back squat, I break parallel and that's it, because intraspinal pressure is to high to go further, IMO. Your center of gravity goes too far forward and you risk the knees and the back.

I'm not one in a million - I bust my arse and can hardly walk the next day. I also don't use that weight all year long - I work up to it in the winter and taper down in-season. This way I retain my muscle mass and strength, reduce my injury risk, and still stay fit. I have arthritis as well, so I can't lift heavy 365 days a year.

veloGeezer

that's what I was suspecting. Nothing wrong with that. For different goals, you have to lift different ways






ain't it the truth. And don't even look over at the bench pressing. It's enough to make you weep.




That's why I had to quit lifting heavy, too. I don't let myself lift much more than my body weight anymore, and its a winter time thing for me now.

Univega

Squats and deadlifts 3 times a week seems excessive to me. Check out:
https://www.westside-barbell.com/articles.htm

Louie Simmons has written a number of articles on squats and deadlifting. If they work out twice a week, one is a streght and one is a speed.

My experience is very similar to terrymorse. Riding makes me a better rider. Lifting makes me a better lifter. Strength wise, I have the power to make it up steep short hills. The longer stuff, my friend who just rides, always beats me.

veloGeezer: I have come close! But as my body squats and deadlifts go up, so does my bodyweight. In 2006 my best lifts were close; at 170 or less I squated 300 and my best deadlift was 315.

BTW: I am almost 53.

slowandsteady

I do kettlebells twice a week. Lifting 3x a week and cycling is just too much. You need adequate rest to build those muscles. I don't see how you can do that lifting 3x a week AND do much of anything else.

BIGPAKO

I don't do Squat!

aikigreg

Louie S. And Dave Tate are the men! I hang out at WSB every time I'm up that way. Those fellas are just insane.

Lifting WILL make you a better rider, but it takes time for the CNS to adapt new muscle mass to the demands of the sport. The same thing happens in any sport.

shelbybiker

When you lift and/or ride, your muscle fibers tear. Rest rebuilds those fibers making your muscles larger and stronger. If you do not rest the muscles you work for at least 48 hours between lifting days, you will continue to tear the muscle fibers further and further without allowing them to rebuild. Eventually, you will cause yourself injury. 3 days a week while riding really isn't feasible. In season, 1-2 days/week should be sufficient. If you lift heavy weights, and you ride the day after you lift, you shouldn't be doing a lot of climbs.

sonyaj87@hotmai

Couldn't agree more. 3x's aweek is a lot for bodybuilders. It's the rebuilding phase that make you stronger.

skydive69

I do squats once a week. Until I learned about the real world, I used to think I had to exercise each muscle group three times a week. Since switching to once per week, I have made much better progress. Like all other body parts, I do squats once a week. For cycling, I favor 20 rep squats increasing the weight 5 pounds each week until progress can no longer be made for 2 sessions in a row. I then back off the weight 15% and start the climb again with the result of getting to a higher level with each sequence. To me the ideal set is with a weight that you think you can only do 10 reps, but you make a pact with yourself that the barbell is not getting racked up until you do 20. Best technique is to take numerous breaths between reps. It seems to particularly enhance sprinting ability. I have sometimes rotated between squats and dead lifts with a shrug bar with similar results. I think the secret is progression with new cycles when progress ceases to be made. Also, I think intensity is important. Some pooh pooh the concept of "no pain no gain." I live by it in both my cycling and lifting.

Univega

I didn't know they let "outsiders" in the gym. I would love to see the place. BTW: to anyone reading this
who squats, I had to laugh at his comment:

"Their legs don't bother them because they're using light weight and probably only squatting 1/4 of the way down. At the gym I see 1 out of 10 squatting with correct form and depth. MAYBE."

Try BOX SQUATS. I think they are great.

I also have to add one word of caution. Deadlifts, if you use heavy weight can be destructive. If you get hurt doing them, you'll probably be hurt bad. If you're hurt, you can't cycle. So as the cop said on Hill Street Blues...."Let's be careful out there""

aikigreg

They don't let outsiders in - I'm not an outsider. I know Dave well enough, but he won't let me lift while I'm there - I'm still too *****. He always tell me to get back to him when I can squat 500 and dead 600, He's a funny guy. You should SEE how skinny he is these days. No bodyfat whatsoever.

Box squats are great. I also often try the squat beginning from the DOWN position, with the bar resting on the safety bars. That will humble you.

And let me chime in on deadlifts as well - if you don't know how to do them, and been trained to do them, never go over 3/4 bodyweight, or you WILL get hurt.

Univega

I don’t mean to hijack this post on jorpe. But it is about Squats and deadlifts.

If anyone reading this would like to learn a bit more, the guy aikigreg is referring to is a prolific writer. I think Dave Tate is the founder and CEO of Elite Fitness Systems. His articles can also be found at T-NATION. He is a link to box squats.

https://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=298dt2

aikigreg can correct me if I’m wrong, but Dave’s low Body fat % came from working with working with Dr. John Berardi.

https://www.johnberardi.com/index.htm

Louie Simmons also has a site: https://www.westside-barbell.com/Check out his articles.