jbhowat

How? Non-Vegetarians don't have some kind of "meat quota". Just because I rarely have some lean chicken or something does not degrade performance in any way. You act like because someone is not labeling themselves as a vegetarian they can't eat the exact same diet as a vegetarian, with or without the addition of small amounts of meats occasionally. What is the performance detriment to eating a small amount of meat every once in a while?
I get to enjoy meat if I want, on occasion.

But still the vast majority of elite level athletes are not labelling themselves as a vegetarian. I'm not saying elite level athletes are pigging out on stakes every night, but most eat *some* meat as part of a balanced diet.


Correlation and Causation. Meat-eaters are the *norm*. That data set includes all of the grossly obese people in this country who don't eat healthy at all. Vegetarians, by taking a huge step to limit their diet are committing to their health. I'm guessing way, way less vegetarians sit around eating chips and mountain dew in front of the TV. Compare meat-eaters who follow healthy eating, active lifestyle, and show concern about their health and wellness to vegetarians, because those who can't or won't do those things aren't going to become a vegetarian in the first place.


You're comparing the rest of the population to vegetarians. I doubt the statistics are valid for those who are not vegetarians but also follow a regimented, balanced diet (since that is what vegetarians are doing and because by definition vegetarians are on a specified diet all the time they obivously take car of themselves better than Joe Schmoe at McDonalds). Like I said, show me scientific proof that vegetarians live longer than non-vegetarians who eat a well-balanced diet. Again, you can't.

Durward_Kirby

So, if for whatever reason a person decides to eat a certain way, and it is at least as healthy as a careful eating omnivore, what is it to you? Vegetarians impacts the planet less, don't promote animal cruelty, and think they are doing a good thing for themselves. What threat is that to you? I say live and let live and if you don't want to be a vegan or a vegetarian and you want to eat meat I don't feel threatened.

DataJunkie

I am currently whatever they call meat lite.
It simply boils down to this for me, veggies taste better.
It is my uninformed opinion that when you exercise your body tends to crave what fuels you the best and I crave veggies or rice after a long ride.
I am sure this is different for everyone.

Like I said I am not a vegetarian but my diet is slowly turning into one.
My meals tend to be 0-20% meat and the rest veggies.
Oh and a good vegetarian recipe tastes 3 times better than the best steak I have ever eaten.

Jynx

Like stated below read The China Study.

Also there have been tests done. One was done in 1984 on Seventh-Day Adventists who discourage meat, fowl, and eggs and prohibit pork. The study showed those who at closest to a vegetarian diet lived longest. They found that people who ate vegetarian for more then half of their life lived 13 years longer then the average non smoking california resident.

The thing is people do not get these benefits because there is NO meat it is because a majority of their calories are from unrefined plant food. A little but of meat every now in then wont kill you. Its the fact that vegetarians ( a strict diet of foods) is being compared with everything else, ranging from people who eat a little meat and all vegetables to people who eat McDonalds, and all sorts of other processed highly fat foods.

Ropopompom

Although you said you don't want specifically vegan info, I have a couple of links that might interest you.

https://veganhealth.org/ - vegan nutrition info site. what foods you should be eating if you do decide to go vegan one day (and to be honest you should probably eat those foods even if you're not vegan)

https://www.veganfitness.net/ - the name says it all. has a cycling forum and a recipe forum

https://cycling.thenoisies.com/ - dave noisy - vegan track racer's blog and https://christinevardaros.blogspot.com/ - vegan cyclocross racer's blog. not really 'useful info'-type pages, as you'd expect.

When it comes to vegetarian food and vegan food for cycling, I stick to one rule, and that is, it should be simple, quick to prepare, natural and nutritious. And absolutely fu*king stacked full of carbs.

So, for breakfast I might have porridge made with jumbo oats and various dried fruits and/or chopped banana, plus golden syrup. Make it with milk, or 50:50 milk:water, or just water.

Other times I have scotch pancakes (I think you americans just call them pancakes... I mean the thick ones that are about 4 inch in diameter), you could either make them with a good vegan recipe or the traditional way. I think they're both as tasty as eachother. I have them with golden syrup or blackcurrant jam (blueberry would be nicer).

Mushrooms on toast is another favourite. Baked beans on toast is another.

Or you could have scrambled egg on brown bread toast, maybe with baked beans. I'm not into fake meats but you could turn it into a full English breakfast by adding veggie sausages and fake bacon, plus a big portobello mushroom, a grilled tomato, and hash browns if you were feeling particularly peckish.

For lunch I generally have chips (as in English chips, not american 'potato chips') with baked beans and a vegetable pastie. The less greasy option is a jacket potato with baked beans (non-vegan: add cheese to this for extra calories, protein and fat). That's the only vegan thing I care to purchase when I'm out in town, everything else is too expensive (such as the local veggie restaurant) or just crap (such as hummous & salad wraps from Pret).

If you prepare your own lunch you could have pasta and vegetables in tomato sauce, brown rice/cous cous/quinoa salad with chick peas, lentils and mixed beans, erm, loads of other stuff! For the non vegan option I suppose you could go for cheese salad sandwhiches, cheese pasties, pasta and egg salad etc

Dinner, curried vegetables and curried lentils with rice, naan bread and popodoms... hand made pizza topped with olives, jalapenos, tomato, peppers, mushrooms, capers etc. (with or without cheese) and drizzled with olive oil... pumpkin risotto, roasted pumpkin with pasta...

There is just so much you can easily cook with just vegetables and rice or pasta, add egg or cheese to that and you increase the number of dishes yuo can easily come up with... in fact after writing all this about food my mouth is watering and I gotta go and cook something... damn!

Speedee

Here’s a great site for athletes. They even have a cycling team... https://www.organicathlete.org/

Biopsy

Yes, don't let anyone give you crap about your diet. If you want higher risk of heart disease and all that lovely stuff than more power to you. If you like promoting the commercialization of suffering that's your thing (which you do by continuing to supply these people with money), I won't have to answer for that later in life (or death). I'm not going to force someone to change their diet and view, I just hope they have enough of a brain and compassion for living things to do it themselves. The thing that gets me is, everyone here on these forums lives in a society / community where it's not necessary to hunt to survive, I doubt you'd have the internet if that weren't true. I hate to sound repetitive but there is enough rampant murder going on in the world, animal or otherwise. Why do you NEED to contribute to it to sustain yourself? You don't NEED to.

discosaurus

As for cookbooks, Deborah Madison is ace. Check out Vegetarian Cooking for Everyone, Vegetarian Suppers, The Vegetarian Table, etc. It's all simple, good, fresh, meatless food.

As always, the best vegetarian food is food that is naturally meatless, not vegetarian dishes trying to be a "meat replacement."

DM4

From the above post it sounds as though you are giving meat eaters crap about their diets. You also sound a bit militant and make a broad generalization that everyone who eats meat is lacking intelligence and compassion. I would suggest that you add a sedative to your tofu and try to relax a bit. You will need to accept that people will be eating animals for many, many years to come, quite possibly forever.

I am on my way to dinner now to get a nice milk-fed piece of veal. I will include some veggies though and a nice bottle of fermented grape juice.

DataJunkie

..and your last line sounds like a silly attempt at provocation. Not that biopsy's was not along the same line.

Anyhow, veal tastes like crap IMHO. I never could develope a taste in wine. Give me a decent beer any day of the week.

DanielS

I've been vegetarian for 3 years now and will never go back to eating meat. I've gradually been phasing out dairy/eggs, and while I will probably never be 100% vegan I'm certainly leaning that way. My shift towards a vegan diet was after reading The China Study and realizing that all the reasons for not eating meat (ethics, health, environment) also apply to other animal products as well.

As for meal suggestions - I just try and keep things simple and as natural and 'whole' as possible. Lots of carbs (complex, low gi stuff) and protein from natural sources. Breakfast is normally muesli/soy-milk, lunch some sort of sandwich, dinner something like wholegrain pasta/rice with veggies. Nuts/seeds are good. Tofu is good. I still eat junk food from time to time but am really trying to phase this out. I steer clear of simple sugars as much as possible - e.g. soft drink, candy, etc.

As for anyone wanting to start a debate on this thread - we vegetarians get this crap all the bloody time and we really don't care. We have heard it all before. Many times. Its boring.

sfrider 

I dunno, I like the Smart Ground. It's intended as a meat substitute which I don't think it really is, but I do like it a lot on its own merits. Adds flavor and texture to almost anything. I bet that stuff is pretty damn processed though.

Speedee

Yup... those issues apply just as equally to dairy products and production. "Ethical" vegetarians are just kidding themselves.

rog

I've enjoyed a lot of these recipies. Without getting into the debate, I hope this link helps.

https://www.gnhealth.com/scripts/prodList.asp?Recipes=Y

indexdothtml

I'm sorry if this has been brought up already, but especially for a vegan diet, B12 is important, it's found mainly in meat and dairy... Many fortified cereals have it, and most good multi-vits have them, but it's big for energy and stuffz, so for sure check it out.

Dropping meat and dairy all at once is a no-no, it should be gradual, as others have mentioned... Many recipes can just use substitutions, many for eggs in baking (half banana=one egg, applesauce, tofu)

So far as the debate? Look up stats on livestock harming the earth, there's an easily accessed plethora (worth the enlightenment). The fact of the matter is that, regardless of what our bodies evolved to eat, our species has taken a few admit-ably unnatural changes to our lifestyle as a whole. For instance? The livestock sector, as is commonly quoted, causes more environmental damage, including polluting (methane! not that rice doesn't produce its own share) the air more than THE TRANSPORTATION sector (the whole world, all of it).

You cannot eat meat and claim to care about the environment... So... yea... So far as veganism vs. veggidom? Most dairy products just continue with the "livestock's" share of pollution (89,000 lbs of ****... per second... in the US...).

So, while I don't advocate eating inorganic anything, or commercially raised.. anything, I ate deer for Christmas dinner because they are overpopulated in my area and hunting them is really just helping more than harming... and I'm "vegan"... it's for the F'n environment, man!

Anyway, there's a lot of information out yonder, so far as nutritional pros (and cons! don't get me wrong) and much has been done to enlighten America's idiotic public as to the dangers of the route we're taking thus far...

jbhowat

Really? Thats an idiotic claim that you can't eat meat and care about the environment. Thats saying that unless someone is 100% green in everything they do in their lives (and I HIGHLY doubt you can say that as I presume you're posting from a computer which has all kinds of nasty materials in it and uses electricity which likely isn't from a renewable source and of course even if your house if you're using an internet system which is most definitely powered by non-renewable energy). So I guess you can't care about the environment either.

You realize populations have a natural cycle that includes overpopulation, right?



I'm still waiting for a scientific study showing health benefits of being vegetarian over non-vegetarians who eat a similiarly controlled and balanced diet that does not have a "no-meat" restriction. "non-smokers" doesn't do it, as I know a ton of 300lb lardasses who don't smoke.

DM4

I am a meat-eating, car-driving, weapon's system engineer (rockets and missles and such) and apparently a premeir member of America's idiotic public. What's a boy to do....

DataJunkie

My reasoning for decreasing my meat intake eventually to almost none involves my taste buds and how my body's performance tends to improve without meat. While at risk of being flamed, I could really care less about the ethics.
As for the environment, I do what I do because it makes sense. I could care less about the current environmental bandwagon everyone is jumping on.

indexdothtml

Awe shucks, guys, just doin' the propaganda thing and losing/cutting down on meat is easy as hell to do, especially when it helps the environment.

I too am an American... will probably be a welder soon enough, so I'll have my own environmental pollutants: it's often said that ~20% of the American people actually know what's what... I'd say if you're an engineer, you might just be included in that ~20%...
(sorry to bump the thread)

DM4

Out of curiosity, where does seafood fit into the vegan/vegetarian diet? Not just fish, but clams, oysters, shrimp, mussels, etc.

Speedee

It doesn't.

jmechy

people that don't eat meat but keep seafood in their diet or sometimes called pescatarians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pescetarianism

qw1a

Judging from your location, all three are gona be ****e...

DM4

****e?

cristina

make sure you get enough protein and calcium. i get my proteins through beans and peanut butter, and i'm a lacto-ovo vegetarian so i still eat milk and cheese.

my fav recipe for black bean burritos that i make all the time:

1 green pepper, chopped into cubes
1/2 white or yellow onion, diced
salt
black pepper
garlic powder
1 can black beans, drained
1 tomato, diced
1/2 jalapeno, minced
ground cumin - KEY INGREDIENT!!!
tortillas
grated cheddar cheese
salsa

warm pan on stove @ medium heat. use a small amount of extra virgin olive oil, just enough to coat the pan. when pan is warm, throw in green peppers and onions. sprinkle w/ salt, black pepper, and garlic powder and stir. cook for a few minutes, but don't let green peppers get too soggy as they will soften up later.

lower heat a little. add black beans. stir toss stir. after a few minutes add tomatoes and jalapenos. stir them in. get out your ground cumin. sprinkle cumin thoroughly, stir in, let cook. mix should be bubbling a little but not boiling. let it continue to cook for about five minutes, adding cumin once in a while. the more cumin the better, i love the stuff so much i often add it three or four times to get the right amount going.

when mix looks good and cooked, remove from heat and get your tortillas ready. sprinkle grated cheese on tortilla, scoop mix onto tortilla and wrap like burrito. zap in microwave for 30 seconds to get the cheese good and melted. add salsa on top or next to burrito for flavor. enjoy!