bruce19

I've decided to get serious this year in the off season. So, I've been spending some time on the weights at the gym. Here's my question: How can I establish some reasonable goals for my age and build? I'm just trying to get an idea of how I'm doing. For example, I'm up to sets of 10 reps with 320 lbs. on one of the leg press machines. Of course I don't know what that really means given the nature of machines, but what would be a reasonable goal for me at age 61 and 5'10" & 190 lbs? Just looking for some way to set goals.

Roody

People never talk about the number of pounds you should lift because this varies enormously from person to person. Instead, they talk about the number of repetitions that you should do.

Generally, you lift the most you possibly can for a given number of reps. Choose 6 to 8 reps for strength, 8 to 10 reps for big muscles (called hypertrophy), and 10 to 12 reps for stamina.

So let's say your goal is strength. As soon as you can lift a given weight 8 times, working as hard as you can, you will increase the weight the next time you lift. Increase the weight by only about 5 per cent, or even less given that you're kinda old. Then, as soon as you can lift that heavier weight 8 times, increase the weight again. And keep on doing that, until you reach your maximum potential.

This is known as progressive weight training because you keep increasing the load on your muscles and you keep getting stronger (and/or bigger).

(The American College of Sports Medicine has a great article about "Progression Models in Resistance Training for Healthy Adults".)

Carbonfiberboy 

I'm 62, 5'7" and 158 lbs. I work up to 30 reps at 300 on the leg sled, and 30 reps at 135 for squats. I'd like to work up to 30 squats at body weight, but run out of time every winter. My advice is:
1) Don't get injured!
2) Don't let your weight training interfere with your biking or other aerobic training. You wanna lift, do it after your spin class, or roller session, or cross trainer session, not instead of. Huge difference in outcomes.
3) Lift after aerobic training, not before like the body builders do. Train the most important thing first.

flip18436572

I do all of my lifts to 15 reps and I do three sets of those. I try to lift to where the last lift of the 15 is still good form, but to the point where 16 would be very bad form. I will increase the weights as I learn more about the exercise and my body feels comfortable with the three sets. I use free weights for some things and machines for others. With our leg press machine, I will lift 1 set of 15 at 395 and then do 30 calf raises immediately following. Then increase 45 pounds and do 15 and 30 again, and then add 45 pounds and do the 15, but the calf raises I increase to 50, or exhaustion, depending upon the day.

I will usually do 50 minutes of elliptical before I do any weight lifting. I am no longer trying to get bigger muscles, and I am trying to get stronger and have better stamina. It really seems to be working for me.

But I also swim, bike, run, and play multiple sports to keep it changed up.

TJDinFl

First let me say I won State Championship in high school for power lifting in Florida, and have been piddling with it and researching it ever since and still no expert nor have all the answers.

However one of the most important things to remember is whatever you do keep it balanced.....no not the bar, although that is important too. What I mean is for example your shoulder (Deltoid) has 3 heads on it, front, middle, and rear, make sure you do not neglect one of those 3 heads, if you do front dumbbell raises then do side DB raises as well as rear (you can develop some serious shoulder problems by developing an out of balance group). Another example if you do bicep curls then work on your tris as well (not the same day although you can work the shoulder group the same day).

Another thing I have heard people say "I just want to build my arms I don't care about my legs", well research has shown working the big muscles ie; legs, makes the rest of the muscles grow faster as you work them.

Studies have also shown that we should "trick" the muscles, don't let your muscles get too comfortable; don't do 3 sets of 10 at the same pace for 6 months, mix it up; heavy weights-low reps, lighter weights-more reps. After all we're not training for Mr. Olympia here.

Don't expect to see results over night we are not high schoolers anymore. Although I can still do some things my HS'ers can't do (running is not one of them), wait?? they are in college now maybe I better check again. You may not see instant results but you will feel good once the punishing soreness of start up goes away, just having that slight soreness kinda makes you know you have done something, and feels good (at least to me).

Do not over train! Monday: Chest and Tri's. Wednesday: light legs (since you ride), Friday: Bi's and Back. Just group similar muscles together (If you are doing chest you may as well finish off your tri's while your at it). As far as shoulders, I have worked my shoulders on any of the above days, just remember they do get some work on chest day, I have done them on leg day. Always light weights while doing shoulder dumbbell raises!! You get your heavy training on the shoulders from military press, no jerking weights up with the shoulders; you should be able to sustain the lift at the top for a moment while doing raises, if not...too heavy! I'm not saying don't strain a little, just be careful jerking weights around with the shoulder, or any other muscle for that matter.

Don't rest too much sucking on a drink between sets, recover enough so you don't blow up in the middle of the next set, then next lift.

Most important of all, just move some weights!

If this was too elementary, sorry; just important points as far as I am concerned.

Jynx

Great post. Just a couple of questions from a weightlifting newbie.

When I go to the gym I do group things like you state: Chest/tris, back/bi's, legs except I added 1 more day for shoulders/forearms/abs since they dont really fit anywhere else. Is that okay or should I leave them out?

Carbonfiberboy 

Reading TJD's post: he's right about all that. I used to do that. But now I'm serious about cycling. It's a funny thing that all the other people I see at the gym are trying to get bigger. I'm trying to get smaller! It's all about pounds per watt when climbing at LT. Our VO2 Max's are whatever we were given. And cycling is all about climbing. So the thing to do is to try to get both stronger and smaller at the same time. You want to be one of those guys with pipestem legs who can leg press 700 lbs., and only has enough upper body strength to hold onto the bars. A little more if you're a sprinter.

TJDinFl

There is nothing wrong with that, however totally opposite of over training you also don't want too long of a gap before you get back on a particular muscle group. I never liked to string out my program too long.

Forearms can be worked the same day as bis by implementing some reverse curls.

Since military press also works the back you can work that in on that day.

My thinking has always been that you get a lot of shoulder in most of the upper body lifts so unless you have lots of time you may want to specifically target them occasionally (light days etc.) with the dumbbell lift, shrugs, etc. Some may disagree with me here but I have always been very careful to not over-train shoulders because you injure a shoulder and you whole program is down. For instance even on chest day my shoulders are on fire, and somewhat on back day.

Military press for strength. Light DB lifts for tone, and shoulder balance.

The dreaded Ab workout can be done everyday no recovery needed unless your back needs it but you have to really be doing something to over-stress the abs.

The most important thing with weight training is not get stressed out and all worked up with the little things, when that starts happening you get frustrated and possibly give it up; if you are moving weights and feeling it the next day or burnt the same day, you are doing some good. Some can expect to work for 6 months before seeing significant results in appearance depending on age genetics etc., however strength gains will be noticed much sooner.

One encouraging thing should be this: my results in burning fat have always been accelerated when I weight train with aerobic exercise, verses aerobic exercise alone.

If you feel run down rest (meaning don't train for a day). If you workout while run down you are doing more damage and wasting time. Muscles that are broken down need protein by the way.

Guess I should restrain myself and just answer the question, this could go on and on.

Roody

Why do people suggest doing 30 reps of some exercises? Everything I've ever read in the scientific literature says that you should do fewer than 15 reps, no matter what your goal is. For pure strength, power lifters often do one rep sets, and most amateurs benefit most from 6 to 8 reps. For hypertrophy, countless empirical studies show that 10 to 14 reps is best. Even for stamina or endurance, I have never seen more than 15 to 20 reps recommended.

These guidelines have always worked well for me, but maybe I'm not getting the most out of it that I could. What am I missing?

TJDinFl

I agree, although I have to admit I have been known on occasion to lose my mind and go wide open to the threshold of puking doing this....start out at the bench and put on light weights and do as many reps as possible, about 20 (to the point of failure) then catching my breath for a second and running over to the curl bar, and so on. This falls into the mix it up category, ie. tricking your muscles. I don't recommend this by the way.

Which reminds me of a very important point I have neglected to mention here and that is, during normal training one should lift slower rather than fast...and controlled.

Carbonfiberboy 

Some very well known coaches recommend 40-50 reps. Read Friel, for example. Why? Because sometimes hypertrophy is not desired! Weight training "scientific" literature is focused on . . . why it's focused on weight training. Many people recommend no weight training at all for cycling, saying that you should put that energy into the pedals, because pedaling is the best training for cycling. They have a good point. That's why I have come to believe that whatever weight training you do, it should not take away from your cycling. An 8 exercise routine can take as little as 20 minutes. One can get very nice strength gains even while losing weight.

You don't get much of an endurance hit from 15-20 reps. Try doing 40 and you'll see what I mean. Many big guys at the gym can't do 30 squats at 95#. That's just endurance. I don't do more than 30 reps because my blood pressure goes nuts. Otherwise I would.

That's not to say that pure weight training is always a bad idea for a cyclist. It does take a certain amount of strength to turn the pedals with enough force to get the most out of one's aerobic system.

I always do just what TJD admits to doing "on occasion," except that I'll be doing 30 at failure. But after years of doing this, I no longer feel like puking. It's quite comfortable now. BTW, I believe it's better to never do single joint exercises. Multi-joint exercises which as closely as possible mimic the motion of cycling are the way to go.

Roody

I have a different philosophy, I guess. I lift weights to get functional strength (not big or small) in the upper body. (I need strength to do my job, which sometimes requires restraining and carrying combative persons.)

It's worked well for me to do a few weight exercises, just one set of 8 to 10 reps. I do mainly shoulder lifts and raises, bench press, tri presses or extensions, curls, an ab routine, squats and dead lifts. I do this routine 2 or 3 times a week, and it only takes about 20 minutes. I vary the specific exercises every few weeks. (I often skip the leg exercises because I cycle about 90 miles a week, 52 weeks a year.) I do this all at home with dumbbells.

I used to do a lot more weight lifting, but it didn't really make me much stronger than this quick and easy routine does. I'm plenty strong now for anything I need or want to do, even with a demanding job and a lot of time spent cycling. I don't enjoy lifting, so I figure why do it any more than I have to? I think this mroutine might work well for the OP, since he seems to have similar goals.

A word of encouragement to Bruce, the OP. If you do true progressive training, you will make very rapid progress toward gaining strength. I think you'll notice big improvements in just a couple weeks, and continued improvement for some time after that. There have been studies showing that the older you are, the more you'll benefit from simple weight training. It's pretty cool that there's one activity where age is an advantage!

flip18436572

I talked to multiple people, including doctors and college sport trainers. They all said that the high reps 30 - 50 will not hurt anything, but will help with stamina. I don't do these all the time, and actually, I don't remember the last time I used the leg press and I no longer have the spreadsheet that I was tracking it all in.

This is from freedomfly.net: (This was a google search that came up with reps and Hypertrophy)

Rep range Percent of 1 rep max Training Effect Goal desired
1-5 reps 85-100% Neural Strength & power little hypertrophy
6-8 reps 75-85% Neural & metabolic Strength & Hypertrophy
9-12 reps 70-75% Metabolic & Neural Hypertrophy & some strength
13-20+ reps 60-70% Metabolic local endurance some hypertrophy, little strength

Do as you wish and follow the studies to do what you want. I will follow the information that I have seen, read, and discussed with other professionals to do what works for me.

late

Hey,
don't lift over your head. Some old guys can get away with it, most of us old farts run into trouble.

Do a lot of ascending pyramids. They warm the joints up and let you know if you're sore before you start pushing heavier weights. Ascending pyramids vary a lot but are like... 2@ 20% 4@40% 6@60% etc

Mostly I do something like 1@20% 2@40% 4@60% 6@80%

Do half squats unless your knees are in great shape.


Take the day off after you lift. You can go for a long walk, but that's it. Give things time to heal.

Nickel

I think weightlifting is important, mostly to provide resistance training to not suffer from osteoporosis in the future. I could never do 30 reps though; I would never make it out of the gym. I prefer bodyweight exercises because I find them more interesting and more challenging.

I also like to carry a certain amount of upper body strength should the need arise that my legs aren't strong enough for me to escape a potentially dangerous situation, but that's just a personal thing.

High reps, low reps it all induces hypertrophy. However the type is very different.

Roody

Very good advice. I was doing shoulder presses (military presses) for years, and had chronic shoulder aches. When I started doing shoulder raises instead, the aches went away but my shoulders were just as strong. (I'm 52, so I'm getting into the old fart category if I'm not already there.)

Jethro

The advice in this thread is very helpful to me as well. The ACSM link above looks interesting, and I would like to see additional references if anyone has them readily available.

Like many with the New Year, I am trying to resume a exercise routine and have the good fortune of ready access to a bicycle (of course), a top-notch weight room, and olympic size pool. My past routine has been to lift and swim in the mornings (M - F) and to ride during the day for errands and then a longer ride (12-15 miles) in the evening. My riding has been rather random . . . i.e. ride around the park x-times or ride out to the bridge & back. My bike riding needs more structure.

I allocate 2-3 hours a day to the effort but do not want to get burned out by doing the same things each day (this happened previously after 10 months). My primary goal is excellent fitness with a possible secondary goal of a long-distance mountain bike adventure.

Just putting together an organized program, not to mention diet, takes a lot of time and effort. I do well with a structured, daily routine. I hope this post does not hijack the OP's original inquiry. However, I would be most appreciative if someone could point me in the right direction for a balanced program (cycle, weights, swim, diet). Also, let me know if this post would be better in a separate thread.

flip18436572

Can I ask why????

Shouldn't you still be working on those range of motion exercises? Drop the weight and do a few more reps to help with keeping the range of motion and also do some stretching of the same areas?

king-tony

I agree. I tore a rotator cuff 7 years ago and still do over-head presses of various types. The one exception is incline bench with a bar which puts my shoulder at a very bad angle. That being said, if I were doing a weight that I could rep 15-30 times, I could probably get away with it. The key is to warm up. I spend the first 5 minutes of my workout warming up my shoulders.

Carbonfiberboy 

Try to find a local bike club and ride with them. Then biking will be a source of social interaction and pleasure as well as exercise, which can be after all, pretty boring. They'll know many bike friendly roads and routes that will expand your horizons. There will also be faster riders than you, which will push you to develop your skills and conditioning.

If you don't have a local club, just go exploring on the bike. Find new roads and places. Wander. Look for hills to climb, don't fear them. Ride until you are tired, and then ride back.

Roody

I really don't know why. I just accidentally discovered that shoulder presses were making my shoulders hurt. When you think about it, it really isn't a natural movement that you do a lot in real life. Actually, I still do the shoulder presses WITHOUT weights as part of my warmup. With weights, I replaced the shoulder press with 3 raises and the upright row.

I also do some ROM rotator cuff exercises with light weights from time to time. The rotator muscles are very small, and they don't require much weight. In fact, if you use more than a few pounds, the Deltoid will take over the load, as I understand it, and the rotators won't get any stress at all. I'm sorry, but I can't remember which book I got the rotator exercises from. I think it was called Core Essentials or something like that.

bruce19

[QUOTE=Carbonfiberboy;5903197]Try to find a local bike club and ride with them. Then biking will be a source of social interaction and pleasure as well as exercise, which can be after all, pretty boring. They'll know many bike friendly roads and routes that will expand your horizons. There will also be faster riders than you, which will push you to develop your skills and conditioning.

QUOTE]

I started riding with a club last year and it really has been good for me. I've had more fun and made more progress on the bike as a result. After an 8 yr. layoff from biking I got back into it three seasons ago. The first year I had a 25 mi. loop (mixed terrain) that I could do at 15 mph. The next year I did it at 16.5 mph. And, last season I managed 18 mph. If this keeps up, in 20 yrs. when I'm 82 I should be incredibly fast.

Zan

I don't know if it has been posted yet, but I just don't have the time to read everything written so far.

From what I have read, the guys (or girls, is some posted) are right.

Just another couple points that are important:

When weight lifting, do your core lifts first. Don't start with the small muscle groups. For example, if you have to do bench press and bicep curls on the same day, do the bench first. You don't want to weaken the smaller muscles before you do the core lifts.

Another point: be sure to stay well hydrated. You probably know this already, but I'm just reminding that muscle is made mostly of water. Be sure to drink up.

My story:

For HS I do a weight lifting program. Are system is a day 1 - day 2 system - the BFS system (anyone heard of it?).

We have a 70 minute period, so we should be able to get all the lifts done in the that. For day 1 it's something like: Parallel Squat, Dead Lifts, Bench Press for cores, and Day 2 is Squat Variation, Bench Variation, and Power Clean.

For the "smaller" auxiliary lifts we do almost everything - so I'm not going into detail about that.

For our system we have different rep days. Example:

Day1: 3x3x3
Day2: 5x5x5x5x5
Day3: 10x8x6
Day4: 5x4x3x2x1
Day5: 10x8x6

Something along those lines.

telebianchi

Mostly wanted to say that there are some great, well written, thought out and supported posts in this thread. For better or worse, that's not always the case on forums. Back in November, I just started lifting again after four years away from a gym. I've lifted off and on for over 20 years (42 now), and while I've always gotten results, I also think that there are always new things to learn. So thanks to all above for your insight and information.

My new thing that I've never done before is to incorporate stability balls/bosu balls into my weight lifting. For example, instead of doing flys or dumbell presses flat on a bench I'll put my back on a stability ball, feet on the floor with knees bent at 90 degrees and bridge my body. Then, doing the motion with the weights you can feel your whole core trying to keep you in place instead of rolling off of the ball. When I first started these I had to reduce the weights by 25%-50% over what I would do on a fixed platform. On some days, my core ends up feeling more sore (in the good sort of way as opposed to pain) than if a do a targeted abs day. And I've never loved doing push ups as much as I do now incorporating the stability balls into about 12 different exercise forms. There's plenty of information as to exercises and form to be found on a search of the web.

the shark

I added in gymnastic rings to my routine - just hang of bar on squat rack in home gym or ceiling.

Mainly variations of pushups, pullups, dips, core, lunges etc. Wow they are amazing and you can also add a stability ball under your feet.

Above posts are good and if you are a cyclist Friels book covers lifting pretty good. Only point to add to above is to ease into it for a month with higher reps and have a friend or coach help with your form.

You can the read more about multijoint exercises, supersets, opposing mucles etc to be more efficient. Key in any workout is to hit the muscle hard to exhaustion and feel a good pump.

One comment - if you lift after a hard spin class your lift hurts and possibly benefit of the spin class. Optimal way would be to life upper body after spin or do one in AM one in PM.

Major point not stressed above: Recovery dring of gatorade / protein powder after the workout especially if doing 2x day and back to back day wk outs.

Also - you have to mix up the routine and order of the weights.