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Integrating biking into my weightlifting regimine

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Integrating biking into my weightlifting regimine

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Old 05-21-08, 03:13 PM
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Wiggle
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Integrating biking into my weightlifting regimine

I'm a new biker, I just got a Trek 7100 2 weeks ago and have been taking it on drives from 5 to 40km long. I'm trying to determine the best way to integrate training into my lifestyle so I figured I'd ask for some opinions. Here's all the information I think is important:

Body:
Male, 23, 5'10", 200lbs, approx 20% bodyfat. My goal is 200lbs at 10-13% BF. I plan on dropping down to about 175 lbs (hopefully without losing much lean mass) and slowly build up to my goal weight of 200 at 10-13%.

Diet:
Normally I eat about 3000 cals a day to maintain weight, currently I am eating around 2100-2300 to lose a bit more than a pound and change per week. Currently I eat a 40/30/30 split (P/C/F). I supplement with whey protein isolate, creatine monohydrate and fish oil. Try to eat at least every 3 hours.

Existing Exercise:
My work is pretty much nothing physical. I lift weights 4 times per week for about 50 minutes (legs, back, chest, arms/shoulders).

I'd like to get out biking at least twice a week. My main goals are to improve my aerobic abilities and conditioning. The big question I have is with my leg day. I get pretty bad DOMS from doing heavy squats and leg press that lasts about 3 days after I do them, do I need to worry about biking in this period? Also, is there anything different I should be doing with my diet? In particular, should my post bike-ride nutrition consist of a protein shake and some carbs (as I do currently with my weight-lifting days?

Thank you for the insight.
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Old 05-21-08, 06:39 PM
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From your goals you are just looking to use cycling as a cardio exercise and to help with the weight loss. Personally, I would shoot for 3 days a week of at least 30 mins. Cycling should help some with recovery after your heavy leg days(you're not doing whole body each day are you?)...just schedule some easy cycling days around your heavy leg days.

Cycling is repetitive, so make sure that your bike fits appropriately, and also spend some time building base before you work some HIIT into your riding. HIIT will help with your conditioning and also with the weight loss. It will also maximize your time spent on the bike.

Recovery foods: depends how long you are going. For less than 1.5 hr rides, I wouldn't do anything different than your current meals. Good going with the every 3hr plan - that helps so much with weight loss and maintaining energy levels.

A bigger question, and one I would expect from others on this forum is "why do you want be so bulky?" You can be extremely fit, and very strong, without being bulky. IMO, that's the problem with setting goals for weights to "get up to," you are not setting a goal to be strong(or even generally fit) you are simply determined to add "X" amount of lean mass. Generally, this is more of a vanity thing than a functional fitness thing.
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Old 05-21-08, 06:44 PM
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Are you taking periodization or a linear approach to your lifting?
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Old 05-22-08, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ottsville View Post
A bigger question, and one I would expect from others on this forum is "why do you want be so bulky?" You can be extremely fit, and very strong, without being bulky. IMO, that's the problem with setting goals for weights to "get up to," you are not setting a goal to be strong(or even generally fit) you are simply determined to add "X" amount of lean mass. Generally, this is more of a vanity thing than a functional fitness thing.
I'm doing this whole thing to both be strong and fit and to look a "certain way", haha yes it's vain but it's what I'm going for. The number I quoted isn't exact it was just to show that I intended to lose fat and then add some lean mass, if I look how I want at say 185lbs instead I'd stay there. Basically I want to look strong and be strong. I have goals of a 250lb bench press, 400lb squat, 500lb deadlift (I'm currently at 170, 250, 345 respectively so I've got a good bit of work to do. Also, my frame is very thick and so I don't think a weight approaching 200lbs would look too bad on me but thats just speculation.

Thanks for the insight, and you're right on with the 3 hour thing it really keeps my energy levels consistent and controls the urge to gorge. I gotta say, limiting myself to this few calories is pretty challenging but the frequent eating plus high amounts of protein do a pretty good job of controlling my appetite.

The rides I've been going on lately are in the 20 mile range and take me a little over an hour to complete. I kind of like that distance, it lets me see some scenery but is short enough that I can be reasonably intense throughout.

Regarding HIIT vs SS, I was doing HITT for a while in the gym and I noticed a big increase in my lactic acid thresholds which was nice. And right now it feels like its either my legs or my lungs that limit me depending the situation so perhaps I'll work intervals in once I get more comfortable on the bike? Currently I always sprint the last little bit in each trip to exhaust myself as much as possible so I just need to start doing that in the middle too
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Old 05-22-08, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ottsville View Post
Are you taking periodization or a linear approach to your lifting?
I think linear, I've never heard that term (in a weightlifting context) but it sounds like what I'm doing I do reps in the range of 5-10, typically 3 sets per exercise. The exception is deadlift in which I warm up with lighter weights in the 5-8 rep range and then attempt 1RMs until I fail at a certain weight. I try to match or exceed my previous weights every workout but lately thats harder to do on account of the lower caloric intake.
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Old 05-22-08, 11:49 AM
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Disclaimer: I am a cyclist who weight trains for general fitness, some strength benefits, and to enhance my cycling/protect injury prone areas. I am not into lifting for bulk or PR's. So as to my advice, YMMV, IMO, etc...

Periodization in weight lifting: Doing something like three weeks hard, one week easy. Give your body some time to recover from the constant increasing workload. If you graphed it out, it would be a jagged, rising line(where linear is a straight rising line - generally not as steep). You may see better overall strength gains this way.

You will probably see diminishing returns on the strength as you try to drop weight. The two are not completely mutually exclusive, but it is difficult to keep dropping weight and add strength. And forget about big gains in lean mass while running a caloric deficit. You will get overall leaner, but the bulk of that will be through loss of body fat. You may be better off doing strength training for several months , then doing some cutting, then back to strength, then back to cutting, etc.

On the bike side...1 hr 3x week is pretty good for cardio. Use RPE(or HR) to gauge exertion and try to build up to more exertion. Or cycle high/low RPE/HR after a warm up. Don't sprint just at the end...you need to work the LA out of your muscles after you build it up. Do a cool down.

Seriously though, are you aware of what it takes, not only to reach those goals, but to maintain that? You are looking at a ton of work simply to maintain it once you get there, especially since the strength you are building is not strength you exercise in your everyday life. I would suggest you look into crossfit or something similar. But again, I'm a cyclist who lifts, not a lifter who cycles.
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Old 05-22-08, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Wiggle View Post
I'm a new biker, I just got a Trek 7100 2 weeks ago and have been taking it on drives from 5 to 40km long. .
1) it works better if you ride the bike, rather just taking it with you when you drive.


2) its going to be difficult to do the weight work you want in the gym and cycle intensely. I would definitely work on riding at a high cadence (90-100 rpm). Thus you can work your aerobic system, and burn calories, without putting as much stress on your leg muscles, when they need to be recovering for your next leg lifting workout.
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Old 05-22-08, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
1) it works better if you ride the bike, rather just taking it with you when you drive.

I thought the same thing...
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Old 05-22-08, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ottsville View Post
...

You will probably see diminishing returns on the strength as you try to drop weight. The two are not completely mutually exclusive, but it is difficult to keep dropping weight and add strength. And forget about big gains in lean mass while running a caloric deficit. You will get overall leaner, but the bulk of that will be through loss of body fat. You may be better off doing strength training for several months , then doing some cutting, then back to strength, then back to cutting, etc.

....

Seriously though, are you aware of what it takes, not only to reach those goals, but to maintain that? You are looking at a ton of work simply to maintain it once you get there, especially since the strength you are building is not strength you exercise in your everyday life. I would suggest you look into crossfit or something similar. But again, I'm a cyclist who lifts, not a lifter who cycles.
Yep I'm aware of what effect cutting weight will have on strength. I recently spent 4 months eating at maintainance and making great strength increases but ultimately I'm a little tired of being strong but pudgy so I can deal with slow strength gains for a couple months while I cut weight. I probably won't go all the way to 175 at once, I may pause in the 180s to recover and gain more strength.

I realize that some of the muscle I will be putting on is not terribly useful in everyday or sports use, however I have found that squats and deadlifts in particular have had a huge benefit to my posture and my ability to lift heavy things without groaning like an old man. I used to have weak knees too, now thanks to the squats and leg work they are very solid and I feel like my stronger p-chain helps out alot.

I also realize that to achieve the goals I posted I will probably need 5-10 years if not more of solid training and great diet.
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Old 05-22-08, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
1) it works better if you ride the bike, rather just taking it with you when you drive.


2) its going to be difficult to do the weight work you want in the gym and cycle intensely. I would definitely work on riding at a high cadence (90-100 rpm). Thus you can work your aerobic system, and burn calories, without putting as much stress on your leg muscles, when they need to be recovering for your next leg lifting workout.
1) Haha thanks, I knew I was doing something wrong.

2) I'll try that, I find it easy on level ground but uphill I keep getting the urge to go high gear and pedal 3-4 times, coast a tiny bit, repeat...
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Old 05-23-08, 03:49 PM
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wow this is my first time coming to this site, and my first post on this site and i must say this is almost the exact type of question i was going to ask if i were to make a thread. i just bought a fuji newest 3.0 and want to get into cycling for the cardio and increase my overall "fitness" level. i would consider myself a weightlifter first. im about 190, 6'0" and 22 years old.

right now im in my "cutting" cycle, just trying to get rid of that pesky fat covering the bottom 2 of my "6 pack". im pretty much doing the same thing as Wiggle, except i fortunately have time (not working yet) to ride pretty much every day. ill usually go for a 10 mile ride in the morning just to jump start my metabolism. while riding ill have a cliff bar and some other small protein bar that i get along my way, before coming home and having a protein shake

when i got my bike i bought the best computer the shop had and its got every stat you could imagine EXCEPT cadiance . anyway what should i keep my HR at throughout my ride. i saw someone mention earlier a slow then sprint pace would work best as i have also heard that works best while running. what should i keep my HR at during a slow and sprint pace. if im generally riding on flat, smooth surface with a wind to my back ill ride easily at a 135-140 HR range. if i happen to hit a hilly area (a lot of hills in my city) my HR will jump to 165-170 and will really get the burning in my legs.

i have only been riding for 3 days so far, so im sure my endurance and strength in legs will continue to improve as i ride. in general what are some things i should keep in mind when i ride given im looking to cut about 5 pounds of fat for the summer and i have most available riding information in front of me as i ride?

thanks in advance, this forum is great!
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Old 05-24-08, 07:26 AM
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I am an avid lifter (used to be powerlifter/football player) also and i had to cut back on my riding. I was doing up to 120 miles per week (a couple of 40-50 mile rides). I love riding but i have been losing to much mass in my upper body (my legs are getting super toned). To combat the atrophy i started taking my supps again (CE2 hi-def, NO2 black, and lots of 100% whey).
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Old 05-24-08, 08:52 AM
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Provided I keep my protein levels up, don't cut too hard and work hard on my upper body days will help me prevent catabolism right? I'm not really looking to turn into a small, fast biker I just want to improve my conditioning.
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Old 05-24-08, 09:44 AM
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I would think so.
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Old 05-24-08, 11:29 AM
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Here is what someone 68.6 years old does. It works for me, but then my goals are probably a bit different from yours.

Goals:

1. To maintain (and increase as possible) body strength, which typically declines 1% per year as you age.
2. To maintain (and increase as possible) my entire CV system.
3. To maintain and somewhat decrease body weight, but not a high priority.
4. To enjoy what it is I am doing to do the above.

Currently, I bike about 20 miles per day, generally 6-7 days per week.

I follow my bicycling with a swim for one hour, about 5 days per week, doing various strokes. The crawl is my most challenging, cardio wise.

I weightlift about 4 days per week, doing total body, but with an emphasis on the upper body. I do "heavy" lifting - 4-6 reps x 3 to near failure.

I only started the swimming in December, and am finding it very beneficial for my CV system - it seems to require a different set of CV response than bicycling, which I consider to be good.

During a recent swim lesson, in the context of body position while swimming, I was described by the instructor as "very muscular," which may be why I tend to sink a bit.

I also supplement with walking, which I increase markedly during the winter.

Regular diet with emphasis on low-fat, lean (non-red) meats, veggies and fruits. Vitamin C and fish oil as supplements.

Again, this works for me and my goals and personality. YMMV

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Old 05-24-08, 07:14 PM
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Wiggle- nothing much to add to the above except that yeah, I'd add the post-cycling protein shake. I lift 3x/week using a modified Korte 5x5 routine and ride 3-4 days/week as weather and work allow. I get DOMS too, but I've found that the 5x5 really helps minimize this, because it's periodized pyramids. Even without the DOMS, I'm getting really good fast-twitch response, so I'm happy. You might try this and see how it works for you- just Google it up if you're not familiar.
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Old 05-25-08, 12:31 AM
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Thanks everyone. I had one more issue and figured I'd drop it in this thread.... I've been having some knee pain lately. Nothing limiting mobility but I notice it at night and its enough to say "thats uncomfortable". Is this something that typcially comes and goes with beginning to cycle, or can it potentially indicate something bad?
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Old 05-25-08, 05:23 AM
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There couild be a whole lot of reasons.

1. How fast do you pedal? Do you "spin" or pedal with a high cadence? If not, and if you "mash," cycling with a low cadence, you put a lot more pressure on your knees. A "high" cadence would be 80 full revolutions per minute or faster.

2. Typically, knee pain is caused by a poor bicycle fit, and could be a whole lot of things. I.e., seat too low, seat too far forward or back, seat too high, cleats not adjusted properly.

Knee pain is NOT normal, and should be checked out. Have someone who knows what they are doing look at you on your bike and check out your "fit." This might be a good Local Bike Shop (LBS), and you might have to pay someone for this service.

I have never had knee pain in my 10 years of pretty intensive bicycling.
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Old 05-25-08, 12:24 PM
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The fit seems to be good. I never feel like the bike is forcing me to use an awkward stroke, but I think it might be the cadence. I have trouble fighting the urge to go low RPM up hills but it seems like that could be the problem so I have no choice I guess. I'm getting an Astrale 8 next week and that should help me keep my cadence in check while I learn what a good cadence feels like.
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Old 05-26-08, 09:34 AM
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I'm a doofus. I forgot to adjust my seat back to the right position after removing it. It was much too low.
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Old 05-27-08, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by MTBLover View Post
I lift 3x/week using a modified Korte 5x5 routine and ride 3-4 days/week as weather and work allow. I get DOMS too, but I've found that the 5x5 really helps minimize this, because it's periodized pyramids. Even without the DOMS, I'm getting really good fast-twitch response, so I'm happy. You might try this and see how it works for you- just Google it up if you're not familiar.
Hey MTBLover - can you link a site that best explains the Korte 5X5 routine? and what does DOMS mean?

thanks
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Old 05-27-08, 03:52 PM
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DOMS = Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness

In a nutshell, the ache your muscles feel a day or two after the workout.
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Old 05-27-08, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Pman View Post
DOMS = Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness

In a nutshell, the ache your muscles feel a day or two after the workout.
Thanks Pman!
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Old 05-27-08, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by NattyTerp View Post
Hey MTBLover - can you link a site that best explains the Korte 5X5 routine? and what does DOMS mean?

thanks
Sure Natty- actually, the modification of Korte I use is Bill Starr's (and a modification of that). here's a link to a good discussion of 5x5 programs. There is a spreadsheet you can download as well- just get your 5RMs (5 rep maxes) and enter them- the calcs are done for you. I'm really happy with 5x5 programs in general- they develop strength as well as size- but I don't generally recommend them to beginners. They get pretty heavy pretty fast, and for those who don't have good (OK, perfect) form, especially on the Olympic lifts or big compounds, well, that just an injury waiting to happen. That said, I think beginners can do them under the guidance of a good trainer, and as long egos don't get in the way (there's absolutely no need to be lifting to failure, and no need to be lifting beyond your 5RM.

Good luck- let me know if you have any questions!
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Old 05-28-08, 10:26 AM
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Thanks for the info MTBLover! I'll check out the site when I get home this evening...
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