Recovery nutrition debunked:
06-05-08, 11:15 AM
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Recovery nutrition debunked:
Short version: Most of the nutrition marketing doesn't do a thing for us if we eat right. It's the 0.001% that needs this stuff. Still like my Choco milk after, though.
From today's NY Times Personal Best column:
June 5, 2008
Personal Best
Real Thought for Food for Long Workouts
By GINA KOLATA
DR. MARK TARNOPOLSKY, a muscle physiology researcher at McMaster University in Canada and a physician, knows all about the exhortations by supplement makers and many nutritionists on what to eat and when to eat it for optimal performance.
The idea is that you are supposed to consume carbohydrates and proteins in a magical four-to-one ratio during endurance events like a long run or bike ride, and right after. The belief is that such nutritional diligence will improve your performance and speed your recovery.
Dr. Tarnopolsky, a 45-year-old trail runner and adventure racer, might be expected to seize upon the nutritional advice. (He won the Ontario trail running series in 2004, 2005 and 2006.)
So might his colleague, Stuart Phillips, a 41-year-old associate professor of kinesiology at McMaster who played rugby for Canada’s national team and now plays it for fun. He also runs, lifts weights and studies nutrition and performance.
In fact, neither researcher regularly uses energy drinks or energy bars. They just drink water, and eat real food. Dr. Tarnopolsky drinks fruit juice; Dr. Phillips eats fruit. And neither one feels a need to ingest a special combination of protein and carbohydrates within a short window of time, a few hours after exercising.
There are grains of truth to the nutrition advice, they and other experts say. But, as so often happens in sports, those grains of truth have been expanded into dictums and have formed the basis for an entire industry in “recovery” products.
They line the shelves of specialty sports stores and supermarkets with names like Accelerade drink, Endurox R4 powder, PowerBar Recovery bar.
“It does seem to me that as a group, athletes are particularly gullible,” said Michael Rennie, a physiologist at the University of Nottingham in England who studies muscle metabolism.
The idea that what you eat and when you eat it will make a big difference in your performance and recovery “is wishful thinking,” said Dr. Rennie, a 61-year-old who was a competitive swimmer and also used to play water polo and rugby.
Here is what is known about proteins, carbohydrates and performance.
During exercise, muscles stop the biochemical reactions used to maintain themselves such as replacing and resynthesizing the proteins needed for day to day activities. It’s not that exercise is damaging your muscles; it’s that they halt the maintenance process until exercise is over.
To do this maintenance, muscles must make protein, and to do so they need to absorb amino acids, the constituent parts of proteins, from the blood. Just after exercise, perhaps for a period no longer than a couple of hours, the protein-building processes of muscle cells are especially receptive to amino acids. That means that if you consume protein, your muscles will use it to quickly replenish proteins that were not made during exercise.
But muscles don’t need much protein, researchers say. Twenty grams is as much as a 176-pound man’s muscles can take. Women, who are smaller and have smaller muscles even compared to their body sizes, need less.
Dr. Rennie said that 10 to 15 grams of protein is probably adequate for any adult. And you don’t need a special drink or energy bar to get it. One egg has 6 grams of protein. Two ounces of chicken has more than 12 grams.
Muscles also need to replenish glycogen, their fuel supply, after a long exercise session — two hours of running, for example. For that they need carbohydrates. Muscle cells are especially efficient in absorbing carbohydrates from the blood just after exercise.
Once again, muscles don’t need much; about one gram of carbohydrate per kilogram of body weight is plenty, Dr. Tarnopolsky said. He weighs 70 kilograms, or 154 pounds, which means he would need 70 grams of carbohydrates, or say, 27 ounces of fruit juice, he said.
Asker Jeukendrup, a 38-year-old 14-time Ironman-distance finisher who is an exercise physiologist and nutritionist at the University of Birmingham in England said the fastest glycogen replacement takes place in the four hours after exercise. Even so, most athletes need not worry.
“Most athletes will have at least 24 hours to recover,” Dr. Jeukendrup said. “We really are talking about a group of extremely elite sports people who train twice a day.” For them, he said, it can be necessary to rapidly replenish muscle glycogen.
The American College of Sports Medicine, in a position paper written by leading experts, reported that athletes who take a day or two to rest or do less-intense workouts between vigorous sessions can pretty much ignore the carbohydrate-timing advice.
The group wrote that for these athletes, “when sufficient carbohydrate is provided over a 24-hour period, the timing of intake does not appear to affect the amount of glycogen stored.”
For protein, it is not clear what the window is. Some studies concluded it was less than two hours, others said three hours, and some failed to find a window at all.
Dr. Rennie and his colleagues, writing in Annual Reviews of Physiology, concluded that “a possible ‘golden period’ ” for getting amino acids into muscles “remains a speculative, no matter how attractive, the concept.”
Although studies by Dr. Jeukendrup and several others have shown that consuming protein after exercise speeds up muscle protein synthesis, no one has shown that that translates into improved performance. The reason, Dr. Jeukendrup said, is that effects on performance, if they occur, won’t happen immediately. They can take 6 to 10 weeks of training. That makes it very hard to design and carry out studies to see if athletes really do improve if they consume protein after they exercise.
“You’d have to control everything, what they do, how they train, and also their carbohydrate and protein intake,” Dr. Jeukendrup said. “Those studies become almost impossible to do.”
As for the special four-to-one ratio of carbohydrates to protein, that, too, is not well established, researchers said. The idea was that you need both carbohydrates and protein consumed together because carbohydrates not only help muscles restore their glycogen but they also elicit the release of insulin. Insulin, the theory goes, helps muscles absorb amino acids.
Insulin may stimulate muscle protein synthesis in young rodents and in human cells grown in petri dishes, Dr. Rennie said. But studies in people have shown convincingly that insulin is not required for protein synthesis in adult human beings; it is amino acids that drive protein synthesis. As yet no convincing evidence exists that a special carbohydrate-to-protein ratio makes a noticeable difference in muscle protein maintenance after exercise. “There is no magic ratio,” Dr. Jeukendrup said.
The American College of Sports Medicine is equally skeptical. “Adding protein does not appreciably enhance glycogen repletion,” its paper states.
“Some studies suggested that adding proteins to carbohydrates during exercise can enhance performance,” Dr. Tarnopolsky said. “Many other studies suggested it didn’t do any good.”
Even if there are effects of protein and carbohydrates, they are not important to most exercisers, these researchers say. Serious triathletes and elite runners, who work out in the morning and at night, need to eat between training sessions. But people who are running a few miles a few days a week don’t need to worry about replenishing their muscles, Dr. Phillips said.
Dr. Rennie agreed. “If you are a superathlete, hundredths of a second matter,” he said. “But most Joes and Janes are just kidding themselves,” he said.
Some, like Dr. Jeukendrup, say they use a commercial protein-energy drink after training hard, for convenience.
Other researchers take their own nutritional advice. Dr. Tarnopolsky has a huge glass of juice, a bagel and a small piece of meat after a two- or three-hour run. Or he might have two large pieces of toast with butter and jam and a couple of scrambled eggs. But no energy bars, no energy drinks.
Dr. Phillips might have an energy bar during a long workout. But ordinarily he does not worry about getting a special carbohydrate-to-protein mix or timing his nutrition when he exercises. Instead, Dr. Phillips said, he simply eats real food at regular meals.
From today's NY Times Personal Best column:
June 5, 2008
Personal Best
Real Thought for Food for Long Workouts
By GINA KOLATA
DR. MARK TARNOPOLSKY, a muscle physiology researcher at McMaster University in Canada and a physician, knows all about the exhortations by supplement makers and many nutritionists on what to eat and when to eat it for optimal performance.
The idea is that you are supposed to consume carbohydrates and proteins in a magical four-to-one ratio during endurance events like a long run or bike ride, and right after. The belief is that such nutritional diligence will improve your performance and speed your recovery.
Dr. Tarnopolsky, a 45-year-old trail runner and adventure racer, might be expected to seize upon the nutritional advice. (He won the Ontario trail running series in 2004, 2005 and 2006.)
So might his colleague, Stuart Phillips, a 41-year-old associate professor of kinesiology at McMaster who played rugby for Canada’s national team and now plays it for fun. He also runs, lifts weights and studies nutrition and performance.
In fact, neither researcher regularly uses energy drinks or energy bars. They just drink water, and eat real food. Dr. Tarnopolsky drinks fruit juice; Dr. Phillips eats fruit. And neither one feels a need to ingest a special combination of protein and carbohydrates within a short window of time, a few hours after exercising.
There are grains of truth to the nutrition advice, they and other experts say. But, as so often happens in sports, those grains of truth have been expanded into dictums and have formed the basis for an entire industry in “recovery” products.
They line the shelves of specialty sports stores and supermarkets with names like Accelerade drink, Endurox R4 powder, PowerBar Recovery bar.
“It does seem to me that as a group, athletes are particularly gullible,” said Michael Rennie, a physiologist at the University of Nottingham in England who studies muscle metabolism.
The idea that what you eat and when you eat it will make a big difference in your performance and recovery “is wishful thinking,” said Dr. Rennie, a 61-year-old who was a competitive swimmer and also used to play water polo and rugby.
Here is what is known about proteins, carbohydrates and performance.
During exercise, muscles stop the biochemical reactions used to maintain themselves such as replacing and resynthesizing the proteins needed for day to day activities. It’s not that exercise is damaging your muscles; it’s that they halt the maintenance process until exercise is over.
To do this maintenance, muscles must make protein, and to do so they need to absorb amino acids, the constituent parts of proteins, from the blood. Just after exercise, perhaps for a period no longer than a couple of hours, the protein-building processes of muscle cells are especially receptive to amino acids. That means that if you consume protein, your muscles will use it to quickly replenish proteins that were not made during exercise.
But muscles don’t need much protein, researchers say. Twenty grams is as much as a 176-pound man’s muscles can take. Women, who are smaller and have smaller muscles even compared to their body sizes, need less.
Dr. Rennie said that 10 to 15 grams of protein is probably adequate for any adult. And you don’t need a special drink or energy bar to get it. One egg has 6 grams of protein. Two ounces of chicken has more than 12 grams.
Muscles also need to replenish glycogen, their fuel supply, after a long exercise session — two hours of running, for example. For that they need carbohydrates. Muscle cells are especially efficient in absorbing carbohydrates from the blood just after exercise.
Once again, muscles don’t need much; about one gram of carbohydrate per kilogram of body weight is plenty, Dr. Tarnopolsky said. He weighs 70 kilograms, or 154 pounds, which means he would need 70 grams of carbohydrates, or say, 27 ounces of fruit juice, he said.
Asker Jeukendrup, a 38-year-old 14-time Ironman-distance finisher who is an exercise physiologist and nutritionist at the University of Birmingham in England said the fastest glycogen replacement takes place in the four hours after exercise. Even so, most athletes need not worry.
“Most athletes will have at least 24 hours to recover,” Dr. Jeukendrup said. “We really are talking about a group of extremely elite sports people who train twice a day.” For them, he said, it can be necessary to rapidly replenish muscle glycogen.
The American College of Sports Medicine, in a position paper written by leading experts, reported that athletes who take a day or two to rest or do less-intense workouts between vigorous sessions can pretty much ignore the carbohydrate-timing advice.
The group wrote that for these athletes, “when sufficient carbohydrate is provided over a 24-hour period, the timing of intake does not appear to affect the amount of glycogen stored.”
For protein, it is not clear what the window is. Some studies concluded it was less than two hours, others said three hours, and some failed to find a window at all.
Dr. Rennie and his colleagues, writing in Annual Reviews of Physiology, concluded that “a possible ‘golden period’ ” for getting amino acids into muscles “remains a speculative, no matter how attractive, the concept.”
Although studies by Dr. Jeukendrup and several others have shown that consuming protein after exercise speeds up muscle protein synthesis, no one has shown that that translates into improved performance. The reason, Dr. Jeukendrup said, is that effects on performance, if they occur, won’t happen immediately. They can take 6 to 10 weeks of training. That makes it very hard to design and carry out studies to see if athletes really do improve if they consume protein after they exercise.
“You’d have to control everything, what they do, how they train, and also their carbohydrate and protein intake,” Dr. Jeukendrup said. “Those studies become almost impossible to do.”
As for the special four-to-one ratio of carbohydrates to protein, that, too, is not well established, researchers said. The idea was that you need both carbohydrates and protein consumed together because carbohydrates not only help muscles restore their glycogen but they also elicit the release of insulin. Insulin, the theory goes, helps muscles absorb amino acids.
Insulin may stimulate muscle protein synthesis in young rodents and in human cells grown in petri dishes, Dr. Rennie said. But studies in people have shown convincingly that insulin is not required for protein synthesis in adult human beings; it is amino acids that drive protein synthesis. As yet no convincing evidence exists that a special carbohydrate-to-protein ratio makes a noticeable difference in muscle protein maintenance after exercise. “There is no magic ratio,” Dr. Jeukendrup said.
The American College of Sports Medicine is equally skeptical. “Adding protein does not appreciably enhance glycogen repletion,” its paper states.
“Some studies suggested that adding proteins to carbohydrates during exercise can enhance performance,” Dr. Tarnopolsky said. “Many other studies suggested it didn’t do any good.”
Even if there are effects of protein and carbohydrates, they are not important to most exercisers, these researchers say. Serious triathletes and elite runners, who work out in the morning and at night, need to eat between training sessions. But people who are running a few miles a few days a week don’t need to worry about replenishing their muscles, Dr. Phillips said.
Dr. Rennie agreed. “If you are a superathlete, hundredths of a second matter,” he said. “But most Joes and Janes are just kidding themselves,” he said.
Some, like Dr. Jeukendrup, say they use a commercial protein-energy drink after training hard, for convenience.
Other researchers take their own nutritional advice. Dr. Tarnopolsky has a huge glass of juice, a bagel and a small piece of meat after a two- or three-hour run. Or he might have two large pieces of toast with butter and jam and a couple of scrambled eggs. But no energy bars, no energy drinks.
Dr. Phillips might have an energy bar during a long workout. But ordinarily he does not worry about getting a special carbohydrate-to-protein mix or timing his nutrition when he exercises. Instead, Dr. Phillips said, he simply eats real food at regular meals.
06-05-08, 11:44 AM
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. Just after exercise, perhaps for a period no longer than a couple of hours, the protein-building processes of muscle cells are especially receptive to amino acids.
Twenty grams is as much as a 176-pound man’s muscles can take. Women, who are smaller and have smaller muscles even compared to their body sizes, need less.
Dr. Rennie said that 10 to 15 grams of protein is probably adequate for any adult.
Muscle cells are especially efficient in absorbing carbohydrates from the blood just after exercise.
one gram of carbohydrate per kilogram of body weight is plenty, Dr. Tarnopolsky said. He weighs 70 kilograms, or 154 pounds, which means he would need 70 grams of carbohydrates, or say, 27 ounces of fruit juice,
Although studies by Dr. Jeukendrup and several others have shown that consuming protein after exercise speeds up muscle protein synthesis
“Some studies suggested that adding proteins to carbohydrates during exercise can enhance performance,” Dr. Tarnopolsky said.
Some, like Dr. Jeukendrup, say they use a commercial protein-energy drink after training hard, for convenience.
Other researchers take their own nutritional advice. Dr. Tarnopolsky has a huge glass of juice, a bagel and a small piece of meat after a two- or three-hour run. Or he might have two large pieces of toast with butter and jam and a couple of scrambled eggs.
Dr. Phillips might have an energy bar during a long workout.
Twenty grams is as much as a 176-pound man’s muscles can take. Women, who are smaller and have smaller muscles even compared to their body sizes, need less.
Dr. Rennie said that 10 to 15 grams of protein is probably adequate for any adult.
Muscle cells are especially efficient in absorbing carbohydrates from the blood just after exercise.
one gram of carbohydrate per kilogram of body weight is plenty, Dr. Tarnopolsky said. He weighs 70 kilograms, or 154 pounds, which means he would need 70 grams of carbohydrates, or say, 27 ounces of fruit juice,
Although studies by Dr. Jeukendrup and several others have shown that consuming protein after exercise speeds up muscle protein synthesis
“Some studies suggested that adding proteins to carbohydrates during exercise can enhance performance,” Dr. Tarnopolsky said.
Some, like Dr. Jeukendrup, say they use a commercial protein-energy drink after training hard, for convenience.
Other researchers take their own nutritional advice. Dr. Tarnopolsky has a huge glass of juice, a bagel and a small piece of meat after a two- or three-hour run. Or he might have two large pieces of toast with butter and jam and a couple of scrambled eggs.
Dr. Phillips might have an energy bar during a long workout.
What side are they on again? Sounds more like confirmation than "debunking"
Last edited by Enthalpic; 06-05-08 at 11:47 AM.
06-05-08, 12:19 PM
#4
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Ya know, I had much the same reaction. They do confirm some of the science, but alas, utterly murder it's application to most of us mortals. Context is everything.
06-05-08, 12:39 PM
#5
RacingBear
I guess the main point is it probably helps if you train enough, but most people shouldn't worry about it. I put in 200+ miles a week between training, racing and commuting. So I'll stick with my chocolate milk. It tastes good, and hey there is always a placebo affect. 
06-05-08, 05:54 PM
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There's nothing like a piece of pizza after a tough century ride! 
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06-05-08, 06:47 PM
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Sam principle applies to donuts.
06-05-08, 06:56 PM
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06-06-08, 07:34 AM
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06-06-08, 08:17 AM
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Wait, wait the article says 70:15 is good...hmm...almost 4:1 carb to protein. It just advocates real food. Again, Joe Friel's training bible is ahead of the game 
06-06-08, 08:45 AM
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My recovery food is a big Chipotle burrito. These things are too big to justify unless I have just climbed a vertical mile or ridden more than 4 hours on the flats. I can't dive right in though. I usually work on rehydrating for the first hour and then I am ravenous.
06-06-08, 09:33 AM
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I agree that "most exercisers" don't need that sort of thing.
But what most researchers don't understand is that there is a large population of cyclists for which 2 hours is their base workout. They don't race, but they definitely have real nutritional needs. Some people do well on hard rides with normal food, but lots of others don't.
I know what the research shows, but here's what I found:
1) Accelerade made a big improvement in my longer riders - both in how much energy I felt I had and how my stomach felt. It's much easier to stay in the caloric range I want with a drink.
2) Before endurox, I'd come home from a 4 hour ride, eat a bunch, collapse on the couch, wake up, eat, collapse - pretty much for the rest of the day. With it, I come back, drink my endurox, have a real food snack (perhaps half a meal), and then go on with my day.
So, yeah, it's anecdotal, not research, but researchers don't necessarily do a good job of replicating real-world environments.
Oh, and watch out on the choco milk - some of them are using HFCS now instead of sugar. Not a great recovery drink, and a real gut-bomb if you react to fructose after exercise the way I do.
But what most researchers don't understand is that there is a large population of cyclists for which 2 hours is their base workout. They don't race, but they definitely have real nutritional needs. Some people do well on hard rides with normal food, but lots of others don't.
I know what the research shows, but here's what I found:
1) Accelerade made a big improvement in my longer riders - both in how much energy I felt I had and how my stomach felt. It's much easier to stay in the caloric range I want with a drink.
2) Before endurox, I'd come home from a 4 hour ride, eat a bunch, collapse on the couch, wake up, eat, collapse - pretty much for the rest of the day. With it, I come back, drink my endurox, have a real food snack (perhaps half a meal), and then go on with my day.
So, yeah, it's anecdotal, not research, but researchers don't necessarily do a good job of replicating real-world environments.
Oh, and watch out on the choco milk - some of them are using HFCS now instead of sugar. Not a great recovery drink, and a real gut-bomb if you react to fructose after exercise the way I do.
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06-06-08, 10:15 AM
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After?
I am all about eating a slice during the ride too!
I am all about eating a slice during the ride too!
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06-06-08, 10:27 AM
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I tried eating real food in an endurance race and found out it was a bad idea. Everything has its place.
06-06-08, 09:30 PM
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06-06-08, 09:48 PM
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The physiological intensity is generally much higher in a race...that's probably one reason most Race Across America racers use liquids and gels almost exclusively.
06-06-08, 10:13 PM
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exactly gels and supplements are there for convinience when u have to work and go to school and do not have enough time to eat a decent meal more than 2 a day thats when the supplement industry makes the buck.
06-06-08, 10:17 PM
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Although, I will admit that the last couple hours, I was putting away a lot of very sweet coffee.
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06-06-08, 10:36 PM
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Machka, in the time I have been on these fora, I have realized that you have a super human constitution.
Coffee while riding just gives me heartburn. If I need stimulant, I mix matcha powder (green tea) into my HEED or gel. I am just amazed by people who can consume fat and such on a ride. I have to stick to tech food, just for my reflux disease, and I can ride all day. I would be chewing Tums for my whole ride if I ate what some other cyclists are able to deal with, but that is just my wimpy stomach.
Coffee while riding just gives me heartburn. If I need stimulant, I mix matcha powder (green tea) into my HEED or gel. I am just amazed by people who can consume fat and such on a ride. I have to stick to tech food, just for my reflux disease, and I can ride all day. I would be chewing Tums for my whole ride if I ate what some other cyclists are able to deal with, but that is just my wimpy stomach.
06-06-08, 11:34 PM
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Machka, in the time I have been on these fora, I have realized that you have a super human constitution.
Coffee while riding just gives me heartburn. If I need stimulant, I mix matcha powder (green tea) into my HEED or gel. I am just amazed by people who can consume fat and such on a ride. I have to stick to tech food, just for my reflux disease, and I can ride all day. I would be chewing Tums for my whole ride if I ate what some other cyclists are able to deal with, but that is just my wimpy stomach.
Coffee while riding just gives me heartburn. If I need stimulant, I mix matcha powder (green tea) into my HEED or gel. I am just amazed by people who can consume fat and such on a ride. I have to stick to tech food, just for my reflux disease, and I can ride all day. I would be chewing Tums for my whole ride if I ate what some other cyclists are able to deal with, but that is just my wimpy stomach.
I do usually take Zantac once or twice on really long rides. It usually settles things right down when I start to have some digestive issues.
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06-07-08, 09:03 AM
#22
Mountain Goat
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Thanks
06-12-08, 10:05 AM
#23
No longer in Wimbledon...
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06-12-08, 10:50 AM
#24
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Precisely. Of course you can get the same or better nutrition out of real food, but who has the time or desire to come in after a 4 hour ride and spend a half hour cooking chicken and pasta for a recovery meal? I choose supplements after rides when I'm not in the mood for a solid meal and will be having dinner in a couple hours anyway. I also find it much cheaper to grab a carnation breakfast shake after a ride than a home cooked meal.
06-12-08, 09:15 PM
#25
In Real Life
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I was trying to drink the tea, and made some comment to a Brit that the tea was awful. His response: "Well, you don't drink tea in France, do you!"
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